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dellnasnoods

RBS Loan and OD debts - Scotland

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thanks

 

Two more replies from Lowell, see attached.

 

Are they saying that I don't have an agreement with them! do they own the debts, is this why they are obtaining the agreements from Argos and Creation?

 

Thanks

051119_Low_Arg_Cre.pdf

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On 23/10/2019 at 22:31, Andyorch said:

Hi and Welcome to CAG

 

 

Creditor Debt Collector   Debt Type       Monthly Payment
American Express Allied International Credit   Credit Card £2,889.04     £11.00
Argos Lowell   Store Card £2,697.00     £8.00
Barclaycard Robinson Way   Credit Card £2,308.87     £7.00
Capital One Fredrickson   Credit Card £3,092.71     £11.00
Creation Consumer Finance Lowell   Loan £12,654.00     £40.00
RBS RBS   Overdraft £6,394.77     £20.00
RBS RBS   Loan £24,556.00     £78.00
TSB Moorcroft   Credit Card £4,716.98

 

 

The ones I have marked in red above (Assigned Debts)you need to send a section 77 (Loan) and 78 (credit card) requests.

Follow the instructions in the following link...

 

 

 

Going back to my initial post and having taken Andyorch's advice to obtain CCA requests from 4 creditors and only received one solid reply since October that they couldnt supply the request, what action can I take for the other creditors in the meantime.

 

Argos/ Lowell - Acknowledged receipt of CCA request, nothing else.

Barclaycard/ Robinson Way - Accepted they can't complete CCA Request.

Capital One/ Fredrickson - Acknowledged receipt of CCA request, nothing else.

Creation Finance - Acknowledged receipt of CCA request, nothing else.

 

What can I do with these other Creditors?

American Express - Allied International Credit - Credit Card

RBS - Loan

RBS - Overdraft

TSB/ Moorcroft - Credit Card

 

Many Thanks.

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the ones that have failed the CCA request (12+2 working days) you can stop payments.

 

as for those still with Original creditors..bar the OD

you could still send a CCA request, though I would expect compliance.

 

as for the OD , there wont be £1000's in penalty fees since since 2012 but it might well pay to SAR them.

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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RBS are usually slow at selling debts on but hang in there- they did eventually sell mine on and cabot couldn't produce the goods

 

As for CCA requests and O/Ds there was an appeal case where it was accepted a S78 request was needed for OD. It was MFS Portfolio v Phelan & West

 

Is the Amex a nectar card? I had one from way back when and in response to a CCA Request they produced some data with AMEX Canada Intranet at the bottom of the page- it certainly wan't compliant, another £3.5 K gone Statute barred


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Dunno if banks even do court much.  Both HSBC and Natwest never sold the debts on, never took me to court and they went Statute barred many years ago now.  I didn't pay them a penny.


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Just now, fletch70 said:

As for CCA requests and O/Ds there was an appeal case where it was accepted a S78 request was needed for OD. It was MFS Portfolio v Phelan & West

 

 

 

No connection to a section 78 request which is not applicable to current accounts...it was in connection to assignment rights.

 

https://www.restons.co.uk/business-services/record.php?id=2

 

Andy


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Reston's would say that wouldn't they :-) 

 

Apparently it was accepted that a S78 was valid 

 

https://www.joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk/notable-cases/

 

I don't know the details exactly but if it was deemed UE under S127(3) then a CCA Request would be the first step in finding that out surely?

 

 

Edited by fletch70

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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35 minutes ago, fletch70 said:

RBS are usually slow at selling debts on but hang in there- they did eventually sell mine on and cabot couldn't produce the goods

 

As for CCA requests and O/Ds there was an appeal case where it was accepted a S78 request was needed for OD. It was MFS Portfolio v Phelan & West

 

Is the Amex a nectar card? I had one from way back when and in response to a CCA Request they produced some data with AMEX Canada Intranet at the bottom of the page- it certainly wan't compliant, another £3.5 K gone Statute barred

Amex I got from American Express fletch70

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The Judgment was successfully appealed after a four-day appeal before HHJ Walden Smith on the issue of assignment and the current account overdraft itself was declared to be unenforceable under s.127(3) the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

127 Enforcement orders in cases of infringement.

(1)In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—

[F1(za)section 55(2) (disclosure of information), or]

[F2(zb)section 61B(3) (duty to supply copy of overdraft agreement), or]

 

You dont use section 78 to request a copy of the OD agreement......you could use 61b CCA1974

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/61B

and then  failure to prove the above will render any claim unenforceable pursuant to section127

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/127

 

 


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54 minutes ago, fletch70 said:

RBS are usually slow at selling debts on but hang in there- they did eventually sell mine on and cabot couldn't produce the goods

 

As for CCA requests and O/Ds there was an appeal case where it was accepted a S78 request was needed for OD. It was MFS Portfolio v Phelan & West

 

Is the Amex a nectar card? I had one from way back when and in response to a CCA Request they produced some data with AMEX Canada Intranet at the bottom of the page- it certainly wan't compliant, another £3.5 K gone Statute barred

Will they still sell the debts if I'm paying an agreed amount every month, would I be better to stop payments and let them chase me for the debts then hopefully sell them.

 

We have 9 years left on mortgage which is with RBS and has been since it started 10 years ago, mortgage is half the Mrs. Have got equity in the property, under 100k but more than 50k, is there any risk the RBS could go down the route of trying to get money out of the equity?  I have no secured debt, all only unsecured.

 

Many Thanks.

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Andy

I won’t link to what was posted on another forum but the solicitor concerned posted. 
 

It was also accepted that Creditors must comply with S 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 requests relating to personal Current Account Overdrafts, not just credit cards and loans. In this case the Appeal court did find that MFS Portfolio Ltd had complied with the S 78 Consumer Credit Act request. If they hadn’t complied with the statutory request then the personal Current Account Overdraft would have been unenforceable pursuant to s.78 (6) (a) Consumer Credit Act , which is contrary to the position creditors normally take. 


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Amex didn’t sell my debt on even though I wasn’t paying. RBS sold both my Mint and NatWest  cards on after not paying for 5 years. 
 

Both had good S78 requests but dodgy default notices.

 

I had not assets or mortgage - well not by the time they sold it 
 

 


Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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3 hours ago, dellnasnoods said:

Will they still sell the debts if I'm paying an agreed amount every month, would I be better to stop payments and let them chase me for the debts then hopefully sell them.

 

We have 9 years left on mortgage which is with RBS and has been since it started 10 years ago, mortgage is half the Mrs. Have got equity in the property, under 100k but more than 50k, is there any risk the RBS could go down the route of trying to get money out of the equity?  I have no secured debt, all only unsecured.

 

Many Thanks.

 

no chance stop worrying


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Do I need to sign the CCA to the RBS?

 

Thanks

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read all the posts in the CCA request link!!

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

read all the posts in the CCA request link!!

 

ok thanks

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as this was taken out 2012? and is still owned bythe original creditor I think that is a good enough recon return.

 

but it puzzles me why the bank has used the recon 'dodge' when they must surely hold the real macoy?

 

how did you take this out? online by digital tickbox or in branch whereby you did physically sign the agreement?

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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6 hours ago, dx100uk said:

as this was taken out 2012? and is still owned bythe original creditor I think that is a good enough recon return.

 

but it puzzles me why the bank has used the recon 'dodge' when they must surely hold the real macoy?

 

how did you take this out? online by digital tickbox or in branch whereby you did physically sign the agreement?

 

I'm not entirely certain but I think I did it in the local branch as the sort code for the loan is this branch.

My branch was in another town in Scotland. 

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6 hours ago, fletch70 said:

Remember there is always more to it than meets the eye. Did they send a good Default Notice and Termination notice. 

 

It also puzzles me why details of when the repayments were due was not on the agreement for example when the 1st repayment was due and when further payments fell due.

 

 

I'm not sure what they sent for the default and termination,  it will be in the shredder now. 

 

I have requested an SAR on my current account which has the overdraft so will this show if an agreement exists for the loan or not. Still waiting for this to be supplied.

Or should I SAR the loan account to see if there is an agreement? 

 

Do they need a signed agreement for the debt to be enforceable or not? 

 

Thanks

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No...because its post 2007...unless the original signed executed agreement has been varied....then a reconstituted version cant be enforced.

 

Andy


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A SAR should or at least can cover a request for all personal data held by the company . It can, if you ask them include logs of phone calls and notes on what letters were sent when. 
 

When I SARd Capital One a couple of years ago it showed the debt had been sold but not who to, the date did not match up with the Notice of assignment leaving a gap. Then the notes about the DN just said a notice of default had been sent , nothing else . We won in court because I knew no DN had been sent. I also kept all my paperwork. Never admit to anything unless you have to. 
 

 

But to agree with Andy, no signature is needed. If the agreement had been varied you would need the new terms and conditions. 
 

I had one loan where the agreement said default charges of £25 but the statements showed £12. That is now SB 

Edited by fletch70

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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My circumstances have changed again due to health issues and I'm unable to return to work until roughly October as recovery for my operation is long. 

 

My wife has an income that will cover our main bills but I won't have an income. 

 

This being the case I will be unable to pay creditors for now.

What should I write in letters to them,  are there any templates.

Should I offer a token payment or what? 

 

My main worry is the Rbs unsecured bank loan and that they may decide to take me to court, there is equity in our property. 

 

Thanks

 

 

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you need to be reading up in the down periods to get upto speed on the wider debt issues.

 

OC's don't take people to court, they sell bad debt onto DCA's.

 

and even if the DCA did do court on a debt, no-one can make you sell your home of use its equity to pay them and neither should ANYONE ever consider doing so themselves if they have consumer credit debt.

 

you write as using the pro rata letter in the debt collection section of our library.

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Thanks for the quick reply and reassurance.

Just to be sure, this does apply in Scotland as well, yes? 

 

Cheers

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