Jump to content

  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • get the FOS done and see. i have a feeling you might not need to do the latter.    
    • Noted, thanks re-draft it is then 🙄    If it does go to FOS and its upheld can I also go for the throat and apply to set aside the suspended judgement (consent order) based  CCA  sections 86E not providing default sum notices 86(5) not entitled to enforce agreement  87(1) and 88(2) leading to unlawful repudiation of the credit agreement. Just an idea. 
    • CB ....this conclusion is true.   as for PB, i can assure you that user most probably ( well i know but shouldn't say} holds the record here for the most reported posts by users as well as from those of the site team concerning his posts. if you hold on someones username further info can be seen.   however , a bit like say vodaphone or virgin media , very large companies with millions of customers will get the most complaints made against them...and that equates to posting levels here too. as for 'royalties account holder' that again merely points, by a default label in the software package we use, to the number of posts made.   one could further this by noting were we to agree with all their posts they would be on the siteteam... i will leave you to understand why not .....       don't think anyone did?    regards  DX
    • Is it just that? Oh I thought it was because of all the effort he and others made to rightly bring DCBL to court. But he just got lucky there I suppose. Lucky he didn't bring his complaint to this forum first because if he had of done, he'd be £10K poorer right now. And for something that Peterbard describes as benefitting from being newsworthy, I am struggling to find all the news reports that refer to it.       Confucius  say "he who backpedals, falls off bike."    I'm not surprised in the least that you, a gold account holder on this forum, would adopt a dismissive attitude to this well deserved victory in court against DCBL, however I'm curious as to why you opted to reduce the issues at stake to being 'simply' about ' the EA fell foul of the regulation which defines "relevant premises".   That certainly wasn't any argument that Iain Gould furthered and he's a civil actions lawyer whom, dare I say it, know a hell of a lot more about trespass and misuse of private information than you do.   The judge never mentioned "relevant premises" either. Not during the hearing or in his judgement. And you never mentioned it either prior to know. In fact, in the original  in the original 2018 thread you even went so far as to suggest that whatever address was on the writ was irrelevant because, "interestingly, if the address is not  a requirement it would not be possible to sue the bailiff for wrong attendance under section 66."   Not that your wrongfully held opinion that non debtors are also subject to the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 matters, because as I had already pointed out in the first video because the claimant wasn't suing for wrong attendance under section 66.   He sued for trespass. Part 66 never applied to him because he was not the debtor and never had been. You and the likes of DCBL can disregard that obvious point as much as you like, but bailiffs do not have a blanket immunity from trespass.   Have a look at the article Iain Gould has written on his blog about the case. It might help you understand the tort of trespass in some small way, and might help you adopt a more balanced approach to those poor sods who owed no debt and have had their homes raided and their privacy breached by EAs, and then - to add insult to injury - they come to you looking for help.   What makes it worse is that your defective understanding of when an Enforcement Agents action can give rise to trespass is backed up by your site team members who think it's their job to echo your mistakes not by justifying what you say - because they can't - but by making defamatory remarks at the expense of those who give the 'correct advice'.   Unlike you and your team members I don't hide behind the protection of anonymity. Nobody can hold you to account if you get it wrong, or heaven forbid, if it turns out you  have been working for a firm of debt collectors all along. To add to this, you don't seem to care much about removing libellous remarks from your forum when a legitimate complaint is raised.   To respond to Bank Fodders comment that "At some point in the video it has screenshots of this forum and the narrative suggests that some people agree that an enforcement agent has the power to enter into a property to check on identity. I think that it is intended that the CAG is associated with this belief."   Seriously? I have to point it out to you.   Maybe it has something to do with key members of this forum smearing me on the original thread by saying how wrong my narrative was and then implying I was a Freeman of the Land.   Maybe it had something to do with Gold Member Peter Bard leaving this comment on the same thread that stated:   "The point I was trying to make is that the EA will not be as interested in paperwork as in physical proof that the debtor does or does not live there.   As said there is no requirement for an address on a warrant, in fact the debtor may live at several addresses and the bailiff may attend to serve at any of them. The warrant is against the debtor, not the debtor at an address. It requires only enough info to identify the person.( see CPR wherever it is).   The bailiff will be much more interested in getting in and checking for clothes in wardrobes, sleeping accommodation, letters etc."   I'm sorry if that wasn't enough for you to justify me bringing that point up in the video. I did consider coming here before I completed it and asking those members if they intended to maintain their position that the Enforcement Agent had acted within the law but strangely the forum account I had used to make my first and only posting on this forum in 2018 - to counter the smears - would not allow me to sign in.   Far be it from me to draw any conclusions about my input not being welcome here, I figured Peterbard and some of the key members here would use their creative skills at providing a blanket immunity from civil liability for all EAs by misinterpreting key legislation in their behalf.    It looks like I was right about that also. Unfortunately I have given in to temptation, and am choosing to respond, even though I know how utterly futile it is.
    • There was another poster (Hammy1962) who understood (#3) the distance selling point you were trying to make, but you may have inadvertantly put him off in your subsequent post.  He may still be following this thread.  Wonder if he has any ideas that could possibly help you?    I'm concerned about how you continue if the TS route is not helpful...
  • Our picks

    • @curryspcworld @TeamKnowhowUK - Samsung 75 8K TV - completely broken by Currys. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/426151-samsung-75-8k-tv-completely-broken-by-currys/&do=findComment&comment=5069075
      • 5 replies
    • @skinnyfoodco Skinny Foods. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/426130-skinny-foods/&do=findComment&comment=5068996
      • 8 replies
    • I’m in desperate need of help
      I bought some clothes online in may through Evans and paid through PayPal
      returned them all seven days later
      I waited the 14days for my refund and no refund came
      I put in a dispute through PayPal but I didn’t get any emails to escalate the case - PayPal closed it. 
      evans said they couldn’t refund the money because PayPal have cancelled the refund because of the open dispute
      I contacted PayPal
      they said the dispute had been closed but Evans at no point had attempted a refund.
      fast forward to today
      I’ve got copies of numerous messages sent to and from twitter messages as it’s the only way I can contact them
      I’ve also contacted their customer service too
      all I get is PayPal have cancelled refund because dispute is still open.
      I have proved that the dispute is closed
      I have got an email saying that if Evans sent the refund they would accept it
      but up until the date I got the email they have not once attempted a refund .
       I have sent them a letter before court email
      I have even offered to have the full refund as a gift card just to get this sorted !
      I’m literally at the end of my tether and don’t know where to turn next !
      i suffer with mental health issues and this is affecting my health and I’d saved the money for a year to buy these clothes as I’m on a low income .
    • In desperate need of help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/425244-in-desperate-need-of-help/&do=findComment&comment=5067040
      • 29 replies

Parcel2Go & DHL - Lost, potentially stolen item

Recommended Posts

Hi there,


I've been searching on Google for the past 2-3 days to see where I stand on this problem I've got, thought I'd post here too for your insights.


I sold some dog toys to a buyer for £480, it was fully insured via Parcel2Go.


The tracking on Parcel2go and DHL both said it had been delivered and signed for, so I thought 'okay great' and went about my day.


But a day or two later the buy responded saying he hadn't received his parcel, so I started investigating. After going through DHL's tracking information through the phone, it told me the parcel had been left in a safe place marked 'safe place'. I thought this was the first red flag seeing as online it said it had been signed for.


Next, I spoke to a DHL rep who said they'd look into this for me. They were being too slow so I gathered the number (from saynoto0870) of the DHL depot in Rotherham and they said that because of corona virus that all deliveries would now involve the driver leaving the parcel on the doorstep, ringing/knocking the door, taking a step back and waiting for the person to open up and accept the parcel and then get a signature. They also said they now take photos of the delivery address!


He described to me what he saw in the photo. The driver arrived at the right house and dropped off the parcels at the front door.


And that's it. That's the safe place he decided to leave it in. Right in full view of anyone walking past. I was shocked. And so was the DHL rep. DHL have just left the parcel at the front door and obviously something has happened to the parcels, most likely someone's walked past, gone onto the property and just taken the parcels.


I told the DHL rep "I didn't authorise the parcel to be left in a safe place, it's a signature delivery which is standard with DHL. If the customer wasn't at home then a redelivery should have been attempted". The rep agreed and he said my next steps should be to take this up with parcel2go.


So anyway, I've managed to get to the claims stage with parcel2go and they're asking for proof of the value of the item, which is fine because I have an invoice from the buyer I bought the goods from and also the invoice I provided to my customer. The only unfortunate thing is that I had to sell the items at a loss because of corona, I needed to get rid of my inventory before things got worse. If I paid more for the items and then sold them off at a loss to my buyer, would parcel2go accept this?


Also, do I have a strong case here?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm afraid that I think you would only be entitled to recover the sold value of the goods. Damages in contract are intended to put you into the position you would have been if the breach of contract had never occurred. That means in this case that if you sell the goods for £480 then that is the amount of money that you would be entitled to recover. If you sold the goods at an undervalue then am afraid that that is a hit that you took – regardless of the actions of Parcel2Go or DHL and you would not be able to expect them to make up the difference and put you in a better position then you would have been at the goods been properly delivered.

Please let us know what happens. I'm afraid these claims with Parcel2Go and DHL often don't go very smoothly and the issue has to be forced. We are happy to help


By the way, if you have any more dealings with these companies – as I suppose you will, then you should first of all read our customer services guide and implement the advice there. It is particularly important that you get evidence that they have claimed that the goods were signed for – because later on when you ask the signature they will be unable to provide it. This will put you in an excellent position in the event that they decide to cause you problems. Read our customer services guide and don't do anything until you have done and you have implemented the advice

Link to post
Share on other sites


Thanks for the quick reply.


To be honest I expected that they wouldn't cover me for the loss but that's fine since I only sold the goods for around £60 less.


In terms of making a successful claim for my £480, do you think I have a good case here?

I recorded the phone call when the automatic tracking service on their number says that it was left in a safe place, and I also have screenshots of their online tracking page saying it was signed for by 'con'.


No such person lives in the neighbourhood as confirmed by my customer. 

But I guess this is a moot point since they've admitted they just left the parcel on the doorstep. 


I'll be keeping this thread updated all the way,.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes of course you have a good case. However the experience has been that these companies are always trying to cause problems for their customers and see if they can get away with not paying.

you really want to see a copy of the signature and I suggest that you ask them to send this to you immediately.

Keep on recording calls and come here if you have any problems


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, trew said:


... and I also have screenshots of their online tracking page saying it was signed for by 'con'. No such person lives in the neighbourhood as confirmed by my customer. 


Did this happen after the CV19 lockdown?  If it did, my understanding is that signatures are not currently being taken from the addressee, but are being "signed for" by the courier.  (Or at least that's my understanding and it does sort of make sense to me).


If it shows as signed for by "con" (are you sure it's "con"?), I would take that to mean that either it's been signed for by (or on behalf) of the "consignee", or that it's been signed for by the courier and "con" (or whatever it says - could it be "cor"?) is code for this happening because of CV19.  (Haven't explained that very well - do you follow me?)


I'm sure you can only claim for what you sold them for, not what you paid for them

Link to post
Share on other sites

yes even royal mail are doing that and have been for +2weeks now.



please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..


DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs


NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..


If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 



Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it did, it happened about two weeks ago now.


If you ring the DHL customer service line it does state that they are doing this. But, the crucial detail is that they say 'the driver will record your name and take a photo of the premises to confirm delivery'.


This means they still have to wait for the person to open the door and confirm the parcel's been taken and then take a photo. It doesn't mean the courier can just leave the parcel on the doorstep if the customer isn't at home. In this case they should attempt delivery at another date.


The whole point of contact-free delivery is to follow the 2m social distancing rule, i.e., to limit physical contact between you and the driver.


It's not there for the driver to leave the parcel on doorstep and walk away and count this as the parcel being delivered lol.


I appreciate the replies so far, I'm in the middle of getting the signature from DHL and putting documents together (such as purchase invoices to show proof of value) to send off to parcel2go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If they say they going to take a photograph – then get a copy of the photograph as well. You want everything. Also get a recording of wherever it is they say that they will take a photograph. Get copies of everything

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

Another update.


I've provided all the info to parcel2go and the claim has been processing.


They asked for a copy of the recipient's signature since the parcel is showing as 'signed for' but I explained to them, again, that the parcel was left in a safe place as confirmed by DHL so this signature is not needed since the recipient was not at home to receive and hence sign for it, which is why it was left in a safe place.


But again they've asked for a copy of the recipient's signature.

The recipient is hesitant to send over a copy of his passport that shows his signature, even if the important details are crossed out. I'm getting really annoyed here since they seem to be ignoring what I'm telling them.


Should I just proceed with the letter before action?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

See what BankFodder advises tomorrow.


I'd be very reluctant to provide a copy of my signature (certainly not a copy of my passport or bank card or something!), but why do they want it?  I thought the signature that acknowledged delivery was "con"?  How does seeing someone's signature give any indication as to whether or not they would have signed "con" to a delivery note?  Or have I completely misunderstood what they are asking?  (Or have you?!)


Just to let you know, we have experienced deliveries in the last few days where there's been a knock on the door and when we've opened it there's been something left on the doorstep but the courier's already bu99ered off!  If we hadn't been in at the time (the courier wouldn't have known if we were or not) who knows if the package would still be there on our return.  (Don't know who the couriers were - my wife's already recycled the packaging etc).


EDIT:  Just realised you are the sender and they want the addressee's signature.  I would explain to them again    v e r y   s l o w l y   t h a t   I t   w a s   s I g n e d   f o r   "c o n"   a n d   n o t   a   p r o p e r   n a m e   so what use is a copy of the addressee's signature?

Edited by Manxman in exile
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On April 11 I advise you to read our customer services guide and to implement the advice there. Presumably you have done that because on April 12 you told us what DHL customerservices say on the telephone and how they treat deliveries during the virus crisis. Because you implemented our customer services guide and recorded the call you have got that stored away as evidence haven't you? Bravo.

Even if you didn't manage do it straightaway, we now about a month away since she first came to us so you've managed to go back with your court record in place and record that message – so Bravo again.

I don't understand why anybody here is debating over whether or not to provide Parcel2Go with a signature.

It is Parcel2Go which is claim that there has been a signature and so it is for them to prove it. They are asking you to prove a negative. It's nonsense and I don't understand why anybody hasn't immediately found this repugnant and why anybody is even considering.

You are being led around by the nose by Parcel2Go. They have produced no evidence of a signature or of the photograph. Luckily you have recorded evidence that they do take photographs and so you should have challenge them by now to say "where is it?".

I think you should now decide whether or not you want to take legal action. As you can tell, we've had too much of this company and their prevarication and their excuses – and I think if you are not prepared to take assertive action that I don't think there's anything more we can do to help you.

Make a decision as to whether or not you want to issue a claim. Read the steps linked on this forum about taking a small claim in the County Court. It's very easy – but it's worth knowing the steps in advance.

If you decide that you want to do this then you should send the letter of claim giving them 14 days. On day 15 – issue the claim. We will help you all the way.

The usual approach by this company is to prevaricate, then you send a letter of claim – then they ignore you – then you issue the claim – and then eventually they put their hands up. You have apparently paid for the so-called "insurance" that they extort out of people – and which in my view is completely unnecessary and amounts to the selling of duplicate rights in the same way that this happens with extended warranties. The majority of people we help here with Parcel2Go and normally Hermes, don't buy any insurance – and as long as the value has been correctly declared – there is very little difficulty and I'm not aware that we have lost any case so far – other than one a few months ago which was very poorly argued by somebody who came here for help and by and large didn't follow our advice.

If you decide to go ahead then I think in your letter of claim you should make it clear that is they who have said that there was a signature – so where is it. It is DHL themselves who have said that they take a photograph and that the photograph is taken with the delivery item at the door with the customer in sight – and you have a recording of this by way of proof – so where is the photograph. If they can't provide these things within 14 days or the compensation in full, then you will start a legal action without any further notice.

Do you see any problem with this approach?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your post.


Yep, I have recorded the call where the DHL automatic service confirms that the parcel was left in a safe place.

But it's not like this is some secret information though,


if parcel2go simply rang DHL customer service and gave them the parcel's tracking number they would be told the same thing.

This is what makes it a little funny and infuriating,

all they have to do is ring DHL but they still insist on the recipient's signature.


I also have a copy of the photograph that the DHL driver took.

The photograph shows the parcel sitting on the recipient's doorstep,


I had a look at google maps and literally anyone walking past could have just picked it up and walked away with it which is what happened since the customer didn't receive it. If anything, the photograph also proves that the parcel was left in a safe place since the customer is not in the photograph too.


I'm more than happy to go to court over this, I've provided them with everything they need to make the payout and they're still wasting my time.


Would you suggest I go straight to the letter of action? Or should I try one more time with them?


EDIT: I think I'll speak to a supervisor/manager on live chat tomorrow and tell them once again why a signature is not required.

If they still insist on it then I'm going to go down the letter of action route.


While I'm happy to play this out in court I'd still prefer trying one more time since there's a small possibility I can get it sorted faster this way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think there's any point in reasoning with them. I'm afraid that we know their style of old – and it will just draw things out.

The only thing that troubles me slightly is that they do have a photograph – although as you have pointed out, it is simply a photograph of the item which has been left at the correct front door. I suppose that when confronted, Parcel2Go will simply say that he is your purchaser who has stolen the item.

Without the photograph, your chances of success were better than 95%. With the photograph – and if they push it to a hearing then I would say that your chances of success are reduced to 80% to 85%. Still very good odds – but you have to appreciate that there may be a doubt in the judge's mind and the judge may well feel a niggle that maybe your customer has nicked the items.

Of course I think that your position is that first of all Parcel2Go have claimed that there was a signature and they have been saying this right from the beginning – and clearly there is none. And also I understand from you that during the virus crisis DHL is required at least to ascertain that the recipient is at the address and has open the door and that the photograph should be of the parcel and the recipient together.

I think that if you make this point very strongly then it is likely that you will get a judgement in your favour.

I think that you will now have to decide for yourself what you want to do.

If you sue Parcel2Go then the case will probably heard in your local court because you will identify yourself as a private individual – a litigant in person – and so the case will be transferred to you even though you are the claimant. This means that Parcel2Go will be put to considerable time and effort to turn up at court if there is a hearing or to instruct local legal representative. This increases their risk factor.

Your risk factor will be the claim fee – and if they push you to a hearing, also the hearing fee. You will have to go to the courts website to see what the fees for a claim of this value currently are.

Whereas most times Parcel2Go would put their hands up after the issue the claim, I think that there is a likelihood that because there is a photograph, they may decide to bluff you further and to push you to a hearing fee. If they find that you are prepared to commit to paying out the hearing fee then they might start to realise that this is going to go all the way to court and it could be at that point that they will then make you an offer. You should make sure that any offer that you accept is for the full amount plus all of your claim fees.


With the current virus crisis, it is entirely possible that the case might be heard by video link – and that will reduce their risk factor in terms of travel et cetera and that might give them courage to go the whole hog.

If you end up in court then you will have to be confident that you can represent yourself effectively and succinctly without bashing on and on and on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are going to send a letter of action then you must mean it. Don't bluff. That means that you give them 14 days and then on day 15 you issue the papers. If you are prepared to do this then don't send the letter.

Check up on this website about the steps needed to take a small claim in the County Court. It is easy – but it is worth knowing the steps in advance which will give you greater confidence. If you send the letter of claim then register onto the courts moneyclaim website and start preparing your claim. You can save your work as you go. Let us see the draft of the particulars of claim before you click it off. It doesn't need to be any convoluted complicated form of words. There's no need to start strutting around like some so-called legal professional. Keep it short and simple. But we will help you once you post your draft particulars here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 08/05/2020 at 22:19, Manxman in exile said:

Just to let you know, we have experienced deliveries in the last few days where there's been a knock on the door and when we've opened it there's been something left on the doorstep but the courier's already bu99ered off!  If we hadn't been in at the time (the courier wouldn't have known if we were or not) who knows if the package would still be there on our return. 


A couple of weeks ago the courier came round when I wasn't in.  So they left the package with someone wandering along the street!


As it happens I do know the person (she lives three doors down from me) and she did give me the package, so all worked out alright.  However, she could easily have stolen it.  


My own experiences with couriers have generally been negative, they always seem to be under time pressure, thus "near enough is good enough".


We could do with some help from you.



 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group


If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...


First of all, apologies for the delay in responding. I went back to work in May completely forgot about this.


Secondly, they paid out.


As you can see in my post dated May 11th, I suggested whether it would be worth trying one more time with them. Well, I did. I mentioned in my claim that, once again, they should contact DHL who would confirm that the parcel was left on the doorstep in full view of anyone passing by. I finished it off by saying that I was happy to go to small claims court over this if I do not hear back from them.


About a week later I received an email stating the claim was successful and they asked for my bank details to transfer the money over to. 


I'm surprised they didn't drag their heels over this but perhaps me seeing the picture of the supposed delivery and them knowing that I was doing my own 'investigation' into DHL made them nip this in the bud sooner rather than later.


And a reminder to anyone else reading this: contactless delivery does not mean that couriers can leave the parcel on your doorstep and leave. It means the courier leaves your parcel on your doorstep, waits for you to open the door and confirm receipt of the parcel, (the courier takes a picture, this seems to depend on the courier) and then and only then is delivery of the item concluded.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?

  • Create New...