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    • Hi, thanks for posting – and thanks for the offer. Your kind of specialist knowledge would be extremely useful if these topics come up. I understand what you're saying – whether it's possible to have an alert sent to you whenever there is a post mentioning "jewellery". I don't think this is possible – but it's a good idea that we don't have the skills to develop such an application to add onto this forum platform. A partial solution – but probably not very good – would be for you to follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/Real_CAG and if somebody posted jewellery problem and happens to mention "jewellery" in the subject line, then that will be part of the title which is tweeted out then it might be easier for you to keep an eye on. However it would mean that you would overlook other threads which were posted which didn't specifically mention that word in the title. I'm afraid that it's probably rather burdensome if you are busy – but am afraid the anything aim think of at the moment is to visit us regularly and to search on "jewellery" or any other relevant search terms. Not very good really – that if you do find an opportunity to come in and help with your expertise, that would be enormously appreciated
    • Just consider that if the cretinous Johnson goes, we might get Gove or The Beadle. Beadle = Rees-Mogg wannabe Beadle of Workhouse UK
    • I've merged the thread with the earlier one which you posted. Please don't start new threads on the same topic. It is not helpful to anyone including to you.  
    • Hello and thank you for reply, I really appreciate!    Basically, I logged a complaint with CISAS and then reached out to all the directors Vodafone Limited and Vodafone Group Plc. I researched directors via companies house and guessed their emails. I also reached out to Ms Lamprell via Linkedin where she replied, gave me her email and said to she would have someone look into it. I sent her an email where I tried to present my case as a some sort of consultant giving insight about what I have learned about their customer service and what they could improve, mainly suggesting to hire a really highly trained professional in English and & Welsh law, so that person could take the cases that are being escalated and also train other staff. The next day, Vodafone came back to me with settlement offer. I believe everything has been pushed by Ms Lamprell who really seems a top executive to me (she will apparently receive MBE for her business services) and understands that customers are in fact important stakeholders; although the truth is I did email a few other directors too, so who knows...   In the settlement letter they pretty much negligently ignored almost all my listed points about the things where they were arguably very wrong; but what they did was they admitted some extra things where they were wrong and on that basis waived the charges and on that basis they will reverse the default on my credit file as well. Moreover, the settlement they offered me was based on the distress scale presented by CISAS where £200 is maximum for severe distress and they added £50 so I should get £250 altogether. I accepted the settlement, simply because I am too exhausted with this case.   To be honest I am still upset about the case and don't feel very satisfied given what I have been through because of Vodafone. I do believe if I pushed further and took them to small claims court or if I somehow pressed further through CISAS, I could get compensated for the actual damage caused to me and my business. I would need to play on a higher level with their lawyers for that, and it would require me extra time to study legislation and I would have to take extra risks too. I am honestly very upset about Vodafone's abusive systems, as there must be many vulnerable people going through it and I think it is unlikely it ends up as well for them -- quite the opposite.    Given anyones experience I would love to know how would you evaluate risks of pushing this further and what else could be done.    Thanks so much for all the answers in advance, it's a wonderful forum!  
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Parcel2go & HERMES stolen parcel

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I am new to posting but have reviewed allot of material on this forum and have found it to be extremely useful. After coming through my recent debacle with Parcel2go & Hermes I am inspired to pursue my own case further and am semi-hopeful to get a positive resolution. The reason for posting(despite all the good info) is that I am confused on what my next steps should be and whether I have a case or not.


So here are my stories of events to date; 


I am a private seller on eBay and occasionally buy and sell goods(not my main source of income)

  • I Sold a Brand New Phone 11 for £525 inc PnP via eBay on the 13th March
  • Sent the phone via Parcel2go(using Hermes), opted out of insurance costing a total of £3.53(inc signature) - Dropped off 14th March, Delivered 19th March
  • Immediately the buyer via eBay contacted me stating that the contents of the package was empty i.e. NO PHONE
  • After a few days of talking via eBay message and consulting this forum, I ended up refunded the buyer(it was not their fault somebody had stolen the contents and was not hopeful that eBay would side in my favour)
  • Raised a claim via Parcel2go on the 19th March, and surprise surprise claim was rejected due not having parcel protection on the 3rd April


After trawling through various posts on this forum I am now a little stuck on what my next steps are. I have not sent any letters to any CEOs of Hermes or Parcel2Go or had any other correspondence; the only comms I have had are via the online claims portal on Parcel2go's website where my claim was rejected.


Do I have a case? If so, what are the next steps?


I have pics from buyer clearly showing the package has been tampered with and re-sealed, I also have evidence that the phone was activated during the time of when the phone was supposed to be in transit(i.e. not in mine or the buyers possession), so in my eyes this is a criminal case of blatant theft.


Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated



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Yes I am sure that you are the victim of theft.

You say that you have read around similar stories on this forum and you will see that my view is that you shouldn't need to pay an insurance to protect yourself against a breach by the courier. You have paid the delivery price.

However, an important point is – what did you say the value of the parcel was?

Also you say that you have evidence that the phone was activated – can you tell us a bit more about that please.

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Hi BankFodder,


I stated that the contents value was the sold price on eBay £525


I luckily had a pic of the serial no of the phone. I checked the serial no of the device via the apple website https://checkcoverage.apple.com/gb/en/ and it stated that the 1yr standard apple warranty expires on the March 17, 2021 which means the phone was activated on March 17, 2020 - which if you refer to my timeline the phone was supposedly in 'transit' at that time

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If you think you have clear evidence of theft, I assume you have reported this crime to the police?  (I don't expect the police to be at all interested in this, but you ought to be able to get some sort of crime reference number which may be of assistance later).  If I were the carrier I'd be asking you this question, and if you haven't reported it, I'd want to know why you haven't.  (I'm not sure "Well I know the police won't do anything" would be a satisfactory answer.)


I tend to agree with BankFodder that you, the customer, shouldn't have to pay for insurance to cover the carrier performing the contract as agreed - that should be their problem.  Difficulty is you may have to go to court to get your money back - and the court may not agree.


I see you've just posted while I'm typing.  So you have reliable proof that the 'phone was activated while supposedly in transit?  And you could get something in writing (maybe even a witness statement if necessary) from your purchaser that the package had been tampered with?  Then I'd go back to the carrier(s) with this evidence (plus a crime reference number form the police) and say you want the value of the 'phone back.  (Did you declare it's value at any point, and do you have proof of what you paid for it?)


If they don't play ball, then for £500+ I'd be considering suing them.  I'm not saying you'd win, but what's to lose?


(just a couple of thoughts.  Do you have proof of what you sent?  Did you either video it or do you have a receipt or anything saying what the parcel you consigned weighed?  eg if it weighed, say, 750g when you sent it but was empty on receipt, that indicates it was "missing" on arrival.)

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Okay thanks.

You can either bring a contract action against Parcel2Go or against Hermes. Additionally you could bring a negligence action against Hermes because clearly the telephone was in their care and they at the very least acted negligently – and I suppose it would be possible to say that somebody in their employ may have acted dishonestly.

If you sue Hermes in contract they will try to say that your contract is with Parcel2Go – and that would be correct. However you would then rely upon the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act which confers upon you as a beneficiary of the contract all the rights of a contracting party. You would not enjoy these rights if you are specifically excluded by the contract between Parcel2Go and Hermes – but we have no evidence that this has ever happened so far.

Even if you were excluded as a beneficiary of the contract, you would still be entitled to bring an action in negligence.

It might be more straightforward to go for Parcel2Go – but in this instance there seems to be some clear evidence of dishonesty. I'm assuming that you can gather written evidence of this activation – the fact that the warranty has been started and that this is a clear indication that the phone has been activated by someone.

Because of that embarrassment factor – that element of dishonesty somewhere in the Hermes chain – I would be tempted to sue Hermes directly, relying on the Third Parties Act and bringing evidence of the deliberate tampering with the parcel before the judge if it went that far.

Generally speaking Hermes will put up their hands when threatened with court action for a small sum. I think for a sum of £500 they would probably normally force you to a hearing – but I think that in this case as you seem to have good evidence that there has been some deliberate intervention by somebody working for Hermes, I think that it is very likely that eventually Hermes would back down – and they would do well to do so and start cleaning up their own backyard.

I don't know if there are any distinctive features about your telephone – but I suggest that you start keeping an eye on eBay.

So you decide. You can bring a contract action against Parcel2Go – who will also say that you didn't have an insurance. Or you can bring an action against Hermes who will say that you had no contract with them and you had no insurance. In respect of the no insurance your position would be that if they want insurance against negligence or contractual breaches or against the misdeeds of dishonest employees then they should insure themselves. You have paid the delivery fee and you expect them to carry out the delivery. This argument would apply whether you are suing Parcel2Go or suing Hermes.

I suggest that you send an initial letter of complaint. Give them 7 to 10 days. I have no doubt that they will knock you back – then you issue the letter of claim. If you never done this before then you should spend a little bit of time looking through this forum at the steps involved in bringing a small claim in the County Court. It's not difficult but you should be aware of the steps so that you have confidence in what you are doing.
When you send the letter of claim – you will given 14 days before bringing a legal action. If you don't really intend to do that then don't send the letter. Don't bluff. You send the letter of claim and on day 15 you issue the good news. In the intervening 14 days, register with moneyclaim and start preparing your claim. You can save your work as you go. Let us see the draft claim before you click it off.

Your risk factors include – loss of claim fee, loss of hearing fee if they push you to a hearing, time and money spent travelling – probably to your local court. All of these risk factors are relevant in the event that you lose. If you win then you will get all your money back plus the value of the phone and you will also claim 8% interest on the value of the phone – which is a pretty good rate nowadays.

Your chances of success, in my view, are better than 85%.

I see that a suggestion has just been made by 🇮🇲 in Exile 😄  that you should try and get a crime reference number. Good idea.

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Thank you all for the advice


The reason for not getting a crime ref is considering everything that is going on in the world right now I would assume the police have better things to be getting on with, not a good excuse I know. I will get a crime ref no if experience in the past has stated this has been useful.


In regards to next steps am I right in the following;


1. Obtain crime ref no

2. Send a letter of complaint to either Parcel2Go or Hermes?

  • Can I send it to both? I am siding suing Hermes due to the negligence and obvious tampering
  • What should the contents of the letter state? Any good templates I can use?
  • Email or written letter?

3. Wait 7-10 days

4. Send a letter of claim

5. Wait 14 days

6. What do I do on the 15th day?

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Yes to everything – and in respect of step number six, if you haven't figured that out then don't do step number four.

This is a self-help forum and you should start doing some of your own research. I've already suggested that you read up on bringing a small claim in the County Court – and you should do that.

Set about getting a crime reference number and at the very least get it in writing to the police so that you've got a paper trail. At least then you will be able to say that you reported it to the police on date X X – and here's a copy of your report. You can explain that because of the virus situation, no crime reference number has been issued as yet – (although by the time you get a hearing date, one may well have been issued).

Also, there is a stage in the procedure where you are offered the opportunity to go to mediation. I normally suggest that mediation is useless – but in this case – and particularly in view of the problems we are having nationally – I would suggest that you agree to mediation. This is not so that you can compromise. It is so that you can stand your ground but also make it very clear to Hermes through the mediator that you have clear evidence of dishonesty by one of their employees and you will be putting that before the judge. You can also make it clear to Hermes through the mediator that once you get your judgement – as you surely will – you will then be making certain that the element of dishonesty is published because you are sure that the judge will refer to it in his/her judgement.

If you do go to mediation then you stand your ground – and you don't give an inch. You want everything in your claim including all your costs and the 8% interest. If Hermes try to shortchange you on the slightest aspect then you simply announce that the mediation is unsuccessful and you then withdraw from it.

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