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CEL ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - i did Appeal but Rejected - Greyfriars carpark MK40 1BY


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3 hours ago, BreadAndButter said:

DO i also write to my MP and the MP of the location?

 

You could do, last year there was a private members' bill going through Parliament to regulate the fleecers (don't know if the General Election scuppered it or not).

 

However, don't expect CEL to give a monkey's about what an MP says.  They are crooks with complete contempt for you, me, MPs and the law.

 

You need to reply to what I think is a Letter Before Claim to show you'd cause trouble & expense if they took you to court.  Do a search for "snotty letter" and post up what you propose to send.

 

I see you've been asked in posts 7, 9, 10, 13, 17 & 26 to fill in the site sticky.  This is to see if CEL have bothered to send out their paperwork in time to respect legal norms, until you fill it in we won't know if they have respected the POFA or not.

We could do with some help from you.

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They are certainly crafty sending a letter out knowing time would waste away being christmas period.

 

Im strugglign t fill out the q&A as it was so long ago when they started sending me this rubbish, im not even sur ei have copies of their documents  - once they went to the debt collection route i knew all hope was lost for them.

 

I have 3 days to respond, but ill see what i can find , they also dated the letter 16th of December which is wrong, it didnt arrive until the 24th.

 

from the letter before claim sticky:

 

For Private Parking Speculative Invoices (PCN's)

if you get a letter of claim or a letter before action

 

please don't use the PAPLOC details here ...neither the reply pack

refer/ask to your thread for a suitable letter.

 

So i guess im going bespoke?

 

 

 

1 Date of the infringement 23rd Nov 2019
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Dont have it but it was within 14 days

 

3 Date received within 14 days
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Unsure, dont have the original.
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes picture of the front of my car
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Yes, via their website, but not saying i was the driver, just that the car was there.
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up Yes, they decline my appeal. I have appealed to Popla, they also declined my appeal.
 

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcement Limited  also t/as Starpark & Creative Car Park & Parksolve

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Greyfriars carpark MK40 1BY
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Yes BPA
 

 

 

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https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal

the above looks promising.

 

I found their initial 14 day letter from middle of last year, suggesting they wanted to go anothe rroute then the debt collector letter arrived.

 

 

6kjtfujp7g7m.pdf

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you already been told about using MSE and their idea of firing all bullets and playing all your cards straight away

thats  why you are in this dung heap today.

 

use the search here top right in the red banner  for CEL

and if you had you'd have found numerous examples of our snotty letter to send

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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in an earlier post you put +15 pix up directly to screen as jpg files

and we had to remove them.

can you put them all in one multipage pdf 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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sure.

 

here: 

 

 

1-merged.pdf

 

written to my MP but Im unsure what can be done. The carpark is under council ownership, im not so sure it was previously, but either way.

 

Complained also now to the Bedford council about the practises of their carpark collections.

Informed them Ive notified my MP.

 

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Very rare for a council to sign a contract with a ppc speculative invoice scammer.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for posting up what you can remember of the correspondence, we were particularly interested in the "14 days".

 

It looks like they have sent you a Letter Before Action and you need to reply.  There are numerous examples of a "snotty letter" all over the forum.  Have a search, have a look, and post up a draft of what you propose to send.

 

Plus, is this car park near to you?  Are you able to pop by and take photos of the signage?

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes is a LBA so as FTMDave indicates snotty letter time.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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OK, we can help you.

 

A couple of questions first.  You blanked out the amount they are claiming.  Can you tell us?  I bet they have added Unicorn Food Tax to their claim.

 

Also, can you remember if this was pay-by-app-only car park, or if there were other payment methods?

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi FTMDave

They initially requested £140 within 14 days.

This has now gone to £182 after the initial debt collection firm took over (now back with CEL

 

The carpark had two options, pay-by-app and cash, we had n cash hence using the easier app.

The app in the playstore has shocking reviews, im not the only one.

 

I wasnext going to get 'their hand' sent to me fromt he data controller, sending the following:

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Subject access request ( Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) )

 

Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law  relating to myself.

- All photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
- A PDT machine record from 23/11/2019  of payments

- A record of online payments made using the Google Playstore APP that day

- all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and

- a full copy of the PCN, NTK

- a list of all PCNs outstanding against me and/or this VRN, and

I will remind here that any claim must be for all PCNs, not several separate claims.

 

If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

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WAIT  - incorrect data - It was a pay by phone ONLY.

Council got back to me, it is not their grey friars but a private one operation

 

Requesting the charge being waived by the land own (QD stores).

Im presuming they own the land as its behind their store but not 100% certain.

 

Found out from the council today its private.  QD stores MAY own it, ive emailed an appeal.

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Who did you appeal to for clarity?  Appealing isn't something we recommend usually as it  otenremoves POFA protection for the keeper by identifying the driver.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I appealed via their website, being very careful not to identify as the driver

 

https://www.ce-service.co.uk

 

their appeals is sneaky, it asks if you are the driver and then if you're the keeper before giving you an online appeals form.

 

I didnt check either box

 

I then stated in the appeals text box,  the online app did not register me parking, it did show me the vehicle was paid up, it doesn't keep any receipts,  but it does show my most recent location was 'grey friars car park' showing i was there and obviously used the app.

My bank account did not get charged.

 

ZZPS Ltd from SUrrey, then sent me a letter asking for £100 and £70 admin fee - £170 for an app they use that doesnt work

 

MP just got back to me, he said they are looking to tackle this and will put extra pressure on colleagues to address this issue.

 

No magic waiver however. I was hoping the queen would pardon me (damn)

 

He sent me a link: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/crackdown-on-private-car-parking-firms-will-eliminate-unfair-fines#history

 

Edited by BreadAndButter
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and they call then fines....:frusty::crazy:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, BreadAndButter said:

Found out from the council today its private

 

go look yourself..find the owner of the land and the initial planning permission granted by the council  and if these fleecers have planning for their poles signs camera etc etc

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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SO, next letter - i guess I state im needing debt advice and a 30 day pause on proceedings?

 

Send asap by post

 

Civil Enforcement Limited

Horton House

Exchange Flags

Liverpool

L2 3PF

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

In response to your most recent correspondence:

I am seeking debt advice but I deny any debt,  the case must be put 'on hold' for not less than 30 days under the PAP for debt claims 2017.

Edited by BreadAndButter
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You need to reply to the Letter Before Claim.  How about -

 

 

Dear CEL,

 

cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  My local supermarket has completely run out of toilet paper in these dark days of lockdown and panic buying, so it was very kind of you to give me a hand.

 

Now you know and I know and now you know that I know that your app is useless and your case is total pants.  You also scored a big own goal when you tried to sneak in £82 Unicorn Food Tax.  Remember DDJ Harvey's judgement at Lewes on 24 April?  Not very happy with these made up amounts, was he?

 

You can either drop this foolishness now or get a good hiding in court.  Up to you.  I quite fancy a well overdue holiday once all this COVID stuff is over and your financing it after an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) would do nicely.

 

 

See if the other regulars want to tweak the letter this evening, then send it off tomorrow with a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

 

Well done on all the detective work you've done in sussing out you could only pay by phone which doesn't work, if they are stupid enough to take you to court further down the line you have all the evidence to smash them.

 

I don't really see the need to send a SAR in this case, the evidence is all pretty clear, you tried to pay by app and it was rubbish.

Edited by FTMDave
Italics

We could do with some help from you.

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No way would I chuck in the towel and send the Plesae don't sue me for 30 days while I get debt advice letter BreadAndButter

 

Looks good FTMDave   I would add the year 2020 to the reference to HHJ harvey's Lewes judgment

 

They have frustrated any way of forming a Contract that binds you to pay anything due to the woeful App, and a system that allows no other way to pay.  How would someone with just a candybar featurephone pay as it can't run apps?  They vcouldn't and would be invoiced by the fleecers.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I agree with Brassnecked, change to "24 April 2020".

 

I also agree with Brassnecked that there's no point in asking for the extra 30 days, all that would happen is that they'd be ready to sue on day 31.  CEL are, quite simply, conmen, as shown by them insisting on app-only payment then deliberately making the app dodgy, so that they can try to chisel £100 out of people (which has now somehow mushroomed to £182 although there is no basis in law whatsoever for the increase).  You need to show them you've sussed their sordid little game and would be big trouble if they tried court. 

We could do with some help from you.

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Putting the actual date of that lewes hearing willl also indicate they are sussed and the judgmentis well worth a read especially the last poart alluding to the abuse of process and the way the Unicorn feed tax is destroyed as an overt abuse of process  Page 18 and 19 are significant.

One Parking Solution v Ms W 5 Feb 2020.pdf

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thanks BN.  Seems I got the date wrong.  I calculated it when the person who first posted about the case mentioned how long before their post it had been. 

 

So, revised snotty letter -

 

 

Dear CEL,

 

cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  My local supermarket has completely run out of toilet paper in these dark days of lockdown and panic buying, so it was very kind of you to give me a hand.

 

Now you know and I know and now you know that I know that your app is useless and your case is total pants.  You also scored a big own goal when you tried to sneak in £82 Unicorn Food Tax.  Remember DDJ Harvey's judgement at Lewes on 5 February 2020 (claim number F0HM9E9Z)?  Not very happy with these made-up amounts, was he?

 

You can either drop this foolishness now or get a good hiding in court.  Up to you.  I quite fancy a well overdue holiday once all this COVID stuff is over and your financing it after an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) would do nicely.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks all, Ill get that off today!

 

Got an email from the store, they aren't surprised at any of this as they've had far too many people complain about the carpark and raised it with their MP aswell.  They wish me well but nothing they can do as its privately owned land, with a dogey app.

 

Should i reiterate any of this?

Should i also describe why the app is so shocking ly rubbish or is the above letter enough?

 

cheers!

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No short and sweet best, the uselessness of the app would be part of a short defence if they did issue a claimform, as in

 

"No Contract could be formed for any action to be taken for breach of a Contract Frustrated from the start, due to inability to pass consideration as in fee to park due to inability of the App, the sole method of payment offered to process any payment. Therefore NO Actionable  Contract can be  deemed to exist."

 

That would be for later if they are silly enough to try court

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