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    • I'm afraid that I think that as you've assembled the chair and you are unable to return it into its saleable condition, then you probably have a problem. I don't think you could take advantage of the distance selling rules in those circumstances and that means that the seller would be entitled to apply conditions to the return of the item. If that's the case then you only fall back is that the item was defective if you find that there is something wrong with it which is preventing its disassembly. On the other hand, this itself raises an interesting issue. Does a chair become of unsatisfactory quality because you can't take it apart and put it in a box? From the sounds of it, the sellers terms and conditions that there is a restocking fee for the return of an online sale even if it is within the 14 day period, seems to me to be quite unenforceable but on the basis of what you say, that issue doesn't arise here because you are unable to put the chair back into its saleable condition and it's not clear that the chair is defective - 
    • Hi everyone, I'm in need of some urgent advice please. Apologies for the long post - I felt it was better to provide all the information clearly at the outset.   I purchased an office stool (that cost £104.39) online, which was delivered on 18th May. After assembling the stool, I found it wasn't suitable for me, so contacted the seller on 27th May to initiate a return.    The seller told me that there would be a "£24.95 handling charge" for returning the item. He quoted the terms and conditions from their website to back this up (please see below), although this is confusing because 35% of £104.39 does not equal £24.95: "Please note that furniture items are subject to a 35% restocking fee. Furniture returns will only be accepted if the item is unused and still in the original packaging. All furniture returns must be made within 14 days of delivery."   I told the seller that, under the Consumer Contract Regulations, the trader cannot charge any fees in the event of cancellation. The response was: "If you not happy to pay for the collection charge for us to arrange this with a courier to uplift then you can send this back to our office directly arranging your own courier, please note we would not cover the cost if this is the case."    I agreed to this, because from my reading of the CCR I thought that the customer was responsible for return delivery:  (5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless— (a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or (b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2. Also, from getting quotations online I thought I could arrange delivery, for what was at the time a smallish box, for a much cheaper price (£7-8).   However, when I tried to disassemble the stool for return, it would not come apart. I contacted the manufacturer for further guidance, but the only how-to video they had available was not applicable to the model, and the manufacturer representative was unable to provide further instructions.   I have now been sent a 'built box' to return the stool without the need to disassembly. The issue is that the size of the box means that shipping charges are now £30 minimum i.e. more than the 'handling charge' the seller quoted.    Am I obliged to pay this return fee, or should this actually be something the seller should pay for? 🤔 I feel like I may have two potential arguments against it: Return delivery would not be nearly so expensive if the stool had come apart as the manufacturer said it should.  The Consumer Contract Regs state that a consumer is not responsible for return shipping if the trader has not provided information about the right to cancel and about return shipping on a durable medium.    What even counts as a durable medium? The dispatch note that came with the stool had no such information, while the order confirmation email simply had a link to their terms and conditions (which includes the statement about the restocking fee quoted above).   Does this clause mean the seller is still obliged to pay return shipping? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I'm starting to stress a little about this because the 28-day cancellation-and-return period will be in two working days (although I realise that may be extended if it can be considered that the seller did not provide the required cancellation information).    Thank you in advance!  
    • so what you mean is that "each" parcel contained a single dinner plate. Thank you that clarifies things. As you been advised by my site team colleague, please make sure that you read around a substantial number of the Hermes stories on the sub- forum. You will get to understand the principles and also the similarities and approach from Hermes. Of course Hermes is being abusive of the system because they exploit a taxpayer funded under resourced justice system simply to put their customers into a kind of triage where only the most persistent finally get through to the end which is almost always – mediation – and then will manage to get their money or most of their money. Hermes are abusive of this system and of course they are actually going to spend more money than the value of your damaged items trying to smash you down. Because their attempts to crush you are effectively subsidised by the taxpayer, they don't really care. Make sure you understand what they will say about the prohibited items list because your plates are made of china or porcelain and will be prohibited items, according to Hermes. On the other hand, they were correctly declared and they were accepted for delivery. The values were correctly declared – and once again after you have completed your reading, you will understand the significance of this. Hermes will also try to say that you didn't have a contract with them and you should sue packlink – who conveniently – are based in Spain outside the jurisdiction. They were say that you are attacking the wrong people. Once again, when you have completed your reading you will understand the standard reply to this. Once again you will discover that this is Hermes being abusive of the system and misleading their customers as to what their rights are. Make a formal complaint to Hermes. Tell them that they are responsible. Don't give them a deadline, but wait a reasonable time – 10 to 14 days – after which you will send them a letter of claim if they haven't put their hands up by then or if you have had no response. By that time, you will have done enough reading to understand the way it goes but we will advise you and support you all the way.   Come back here when you have been knocked back by Hermes and we will take you through the next step  
    • @BankFodder is this ok to send to all contacts at aviva regarding the final notification debt letter theyve sent   I received your correspondence regarding the notice of debt dated 8th June received 12th June giving me 7 days to make payment. I don’t owe this money and the policy was taken out by my brother by a fraud in which you were complicit. The police are aware I have a crime reference number 1XXXXX this fraud is being investigated by PC XX, she will be emailing yourselves I give full authorisation for her to discuss any aspects of this case with yourselves.
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CEL ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - i did Appeal but Rejected - Greyfriars carpark MK40 1BY


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So, Civil Enforcement Ltd.

 

I used their app to pay, it said I was all paid up - went about my day.

Came back in time and drove off.

 

They say I never paid at all.

 

I appealed via their website after the app store reviews said so many people had been done over by their app.

I screenshotted it, sent them the appeal and said I had paid, i sent them screenshots of the ' location history' too (the app doesnt show invoices just where youve been)

 

They blanket rejected it based on the fact they believed it was correct

 

I raised this with POPLA, they also reected my claim

 

I was there, I paid for the parking, the app didnt work or didnt take my payment despite saying it was all good!

 

Next lett is demanding £140 in 14 days

 

 

What next? - MP?

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No short and sweet best, the uselessness of the app would be part of a short defence if they did issue a claimform, as in   "No Contract could be formed for any action to be taken for breach

Let it run, (and go to court if need be)   Don’t let the worry about credit report concern you. Even if it went to court, even if you then lost (unlikely), a judgement only goes onto the reg

except claimant and defendant have been switched in two places. 1.  It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant, or broke any such contract Should be Defendant enter

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Normally we recommend to ignore any communications from CEL unless they send a formal Letter Before Action.  Anything before that is just hot air and empty threats.  Could you redact your details and upload this last letter please?  Just to check  it is the usual rubbish they send out and not an LBA.

 

As you'll have worked out, appealing was not a good idea.  These fleecers never, ever, ever accept appeals - ever.  You also run the risk of losing legal protections - in your appeals did you out yourself as the driver?

 

Also was the only way of paying by app?  The answer will help in building up this picture of CEL making it impossible to pay, so they can then harass motorists with their demands.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks - I dont understand the appeals bit - the money saving expert forums suggest you must appeal as it can be the easiest way to remove the claim, so i did, i didnt say I was the driver however, i skipped that part of the form

 

I guess i should have come here first...

 

here is the letter

 

cheers

 

 

CEL Letter.pdf

Edited by FTMDave
Image pasted to thread now converted to PDF
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I've converted the letter to PDF, that way only registered Caggers can see it - best to keep the opposition guessing.

 

Appealing would seem the obvious thing to do.  The app didn't work, not your fault, any decent company would accept that.  But you're not dealing with honest brokers, CEL are one of the worst PPCs and are only interested in dishonest £££.

 

Well done on not identifying the driver, that gives CEL an extra obstacle.

 

The letter they have sent you is full of empty threats, it's not a proper LBA, so just ignore their rubbish.

 

Other site members will probably ask you for full details of the parking event, the more we know the more we can pick holes in CEL's claim.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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"the money saving expert forums suggest you must appeal as it can be the easiest way to remove the claim"

 

The advice here is usually NOT to appeal as it often leads to  identifying the keeper as driver and negates POFA protection, it seems logical to appeal in your case

 

Do you have any proof you paid? if by phone app there must be a record on a Bank Statement, print that out as it will be evidence to kill their claim if they did try  court. Did you send any proof of payment with appeal? if so again undermines their case if they were silly.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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please complete this:

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Unfortunately, the money didnt come out, so the app said it had taken funds and a countdown time began but the money never came out of my bank, and im guessing no money into theirs means they presumed i hadnt paid!

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Q&A link please!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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please give us all of the relevant nfo, like the date and time of the event, exactly where it was, wheat you received through the post and more importantly when.

Does you banking app still show the attempted payment? If so we need a screen shot/printout saving for the future

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi

So, it has continued - the CEL have moved to a debt collector for the money

 

They use ZZPS

based in Surrey.

 

So, court action isnt really their game then as they wouldnt bother with ZZPS

 

 

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they go thru a std process.

cant just go straight to court as they've signed contracts with DCA's that they must use I suspect..

 

do not ignore a letter of claim

 

 

read a few CEL threads here

 

watch them as they can be crafty in the least.

 

 

don't forget to do the Q&A in post 7 please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

You should know as you have been reading other threads that ZZPS cant instruct a solicitor to do anything legal because they are uninterested third parties in this matter.

If you look VERY carefully at the paperwork you may see a similarity in the address if WDR and ZZPS.

Basically the solicitors have given the debt collectors the OK to use their name and address to scare people into thinking that this letter is somehting it isnt.

Read the thread about One Parking Solution/ZZPS at Lewes county court and you will  see why their bluff is easy to call.

 

let them waste CEL's fifteen quid

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On 08/04/2020 at 11:22, dx100uk said:

please complete this:

 

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 7 months later...

open

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Thanks for opening

SO,  nothing since May as you saw before I received a debt collection letter from a 3rd party.

 

As they got no response ON CHRISTMAS EVE I received  a new 'CLAIM FOR DEBT' containing a handy 'previous case notes' from a court appeal that went wrong.

They include an affordability schedule, they have upped it to £182

 

They are sending the letter in accordance with Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claims (PAP) contained in the Civili Procedure Rules (CPR)

You have 30 days to complete the enclosed or possibly face court acton.

 

'If you ignore this letter and fail to respond proceedings will be issued against you and may increase you liability for costs"

 

I can then tick a box saying A,B,C,D  etc.  I owe the debt, I owe some of the debt, I dispute the debt, I dont know i owe the debt,, I will pay buy need time, Im getting debt advice, I h ave provided docs,  i need more docs or info, sign and send back.

 

Ignore or respond?

 

Cheers!

 

 

Edited by BreadAndButter
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This could well be a Letter Before Action.  Please redact your personal details and then upload it.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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I've had to hide your post because you posted the images direct to the thread, meaning anyone can see them, registered Caggers and not.  Please follow the upload guide and upload as PDF.  We only need to see the first page, the one with "CLAIM FOR DEBT" in the title.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Superb - thank you.  It looks like a Letter Before Claim to me, although CEL haven't bothered to entitle it that way, and so you will need to reply.  Hang on for a second though till the other regulars look in, just to make sure it qualifies as a genuine Letter Before Claim

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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Thanks

 

Id happily pay the parking fee if thats whats owed but £180+ is ridiculous when their app is the one thing that failed.

DO i also write to my MP and the MP of the location?

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On 08/04/2020 at 11:22, dx100uk said:

please complete this:

 

 

please complete the above links Q&A's

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to CEL ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - i did Appeal but Rejected - Greyfriars carpark MK40 1BY

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