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Annoyedcustomer01

Letter before action draft - Suggestions required

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Hi

 

I have just drafted a letter before action. I have changed the personal details for the purpose of this thread. I have four questions

 

1) Is it generally legally sound? or should I make any major changes?

2) I have found no record of this company on companies house, I think they are a sole trader so can I serve by email? seeing as I dont know their current residential address

3) The second last paragraph, am I allowed to make such a claim if this goes to court? Should I keep it in the letter before action?

4) Am I right to keep mentioning the business name in the body of text rather than the owners name? I presume my claim is against the business but the money has appeared on my credit card bill under the name of another company he owns.

 

Thanks

 

To protect identities

John = fake owner name

Johnsbusiness = fake business name

Company 2 = different company name that appeared on my credit card bill


 

Quote

 

Dear John, owner of Johnsbusiness

 

Reference: Unfulfilled order xxxxxxxxxxx from Johnsbusiness and no refund provided

 

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter to date, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

 

I ordered xxxxxx from Johnsbusiness in late February of this year. I have not received this order and a refund has not been provided. Johnsbusiness claimed the order has been shipped and delivered. I asked for a tracking number to see for myself but no tracking number has been provided to date. I previously emailed Johnsbusiness three times about my order and to date no response has been received.

 

From you I am claiming a full refund of (a set amount under £100).  The amount I paid for the product which appeared on my Credit Card bell as "Company 2". Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:

 

1. A screenshot I took when I made the order
2. Three images taken from the internet to demonstrate that you are linked to Company 2. One of which states your previous rather than current residential address.
3. Two comments I have posted on Trustpilot review, and one response from Johnsbusiness. My comment requesting a refund has been ignored,  even though you have responded to all other 1/5 reviews.
4. Three comments I have posted on Johnsbusiness public facebook page, and one response from Johnsbusiness
5. Two emails I sent to Johnsbusiness to chase my order. I received no replies

6. One email I sent to Johnsbusiness asking for a refund. I received no reply
7. One private facebook message sent directly to John. I received no reply
8. One private facebook message sent directly to Johnsbusiness. I received no reply
9. A review I left on IO after Johnsbusiness emailed me asking that I leave one. I received no reply
10. A copy of the email from Johnsbusiness asking me to leave an IO review

 

In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct if you are not going to refund my £xx within 14 days. I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:

 

1) The UPS tracking number for my order
2) Postage receipt from UPS to the Johnsbusiness in relation to my order
3) All correspondence between Johnsbusiness and UPS in relation to my order
4) Any emails Johnsbusiness sent to me regarding my order

 

I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts. I invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.

 

I have spent an inordinate amount of my time chasing up on this matter, both in terms of communication I have made to you and Johnsbusiness through various platforms (mostly to no avail) and the collection of evidence for this letter before action. I am minded to claim costs for this time should this matter need to be resolved in court.

 

Finally, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim. I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days. Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame, then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Me

 

 

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how did you pay?

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Hi

 

Credit card. I know chargeback exists for amounts under £100 but it cannot be enforced unless the business agrees to it. Thats my understanding anyway. As they have ignored my requests so far and never answer their phone I cannot see the merit taking this approach.

Edited by Annoyedcustomer01

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If it's a credit card then it has nothing to do with the agreement of the business. If it's a chargeback against a debit card then it depends to a certain amount on the goodwill of the bank – but generally speaking they are obliged to do it. Once again it has nothing to do with the agreement of the business. If the business had to agree – then they would simply pay the money – wouldn't they?

There is no particular formula for a letter of claim. There are no legal requirements other than you remind them of the dispute and that there has been no resolution and that if they don't provide you what you  want within 14 days then you will start legal action and without any further notice.

Your letter of claim is extremely wordy – but it is still fine.

I don't understand why you are indicating now that you are prepared to go to mediation. There is no point in mediation on the basis of what you are saying in your letter. The business has got your money. You want it back. You want all of it back – there is nothing to negotiate. Mediation will simply waste time. By giving them notice that you might agree to mediation, you are actually giving away part of your game plan.

I do think you ought to tell us who the business is and what it's all about. We don't play secret squirrel here and as long as you are straight dealing – it is better that these businesses have their name published on the Internet. It's better for you and it's better for other people who might have similar problems.

Also, you are proposing to take legal action. Have you done any research on the steps to take a small claim in the County Court? It's not complicated but you should be aware of the steps. Once you send this letter of claim, you must follow through on day 15 and issue the papers. Don't bluff or else you will lose credibility. Have you registered with moneyclaim online?

Most importantly, even though you may win the case – you then have to go through the separate process of enforcing the judgement. Do you know enough about the company you are suing to be certain that you can enforce it? There is always the risk that despite the rights of the matter, you get your judgement and then you can't enforce it which means that you don't get your money back, you lose your claim fee – and you may even lose an enforcement fee.

I really think that you need to tell us much more.


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price of the order?


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Item was just under £40. Its not a huge amount but its mine and I should be getting it back seeing as the package didnt arrive.

 

I didnt realise charge back was fairly straight forward and can be done without the business agreeing so I will get a case set up with my credit card. Am I right in thinking now that I need to make the claim and the sellers bank should refund the money. Then the seller has a set number days to dispute the refund with proof of delivery?

 

My worry is maybe the courier messed up and delivered it to the wrong address , but the seller still has a confirmation of delivery because somebody somewhere accepted it despite my name and address being on the package. What would happen in that scenario?

 

I wonder if I phoned UPS and asked they would let me know if anything was sent to me, even though I dont have the tracking number. I doubt it but its worth a try.

 

If thats the case that sounds better than the letter before action and small claims court.

Edited by Annoyedcustomer01

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chargeback on a credit card doesn't apply to all brands of credit card sadly.

some do honour it,which they have no remit too, most don't and refer to section 75 of the CCA rules..whereby yes the min limit is £100 spend

 

not being funny here but issuing a court claim for £40 is a bit thin IMHO.

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Just to clarify, are you advocating that I should drop this entirely? Or just try chargeback and if no success let it go.

 

Its more the principle of the matter, they have seemingly messed up and I am the one out of pocket. Furthermore they have repeatedly ignored my communication on the matter, which is actually more irritating than the money lost.

 

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Apart from the relatively low amount of the claim I might also just query that you ordered the item in "late February" (don't you have a more precise date?) which could be just over four weeks ago.

 

Without knowing more detail about the ins and outs of it, it doesn't seem very long ago.  I know there are probably more deliveries going on now than usual, but some supply chains have been severely disrupted throughout most of March and depending on the product (eg is it coming from China?) there may be a longer than usual delay.

 

I'm not saying there's any excuse for the seller not replying to your requests for info, and I'm not saying you shouldn't sue them - just seems a bit early to me. 

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Ah okay I see what you mean.

 

I received an email March 4th stating my order had been dispatched.

The banner on their website states they use UPS express which should be next morning before 10:30.

Its certainly not a supply issue.

Its a not sent out or delivered to the wrong person issue. 😀

 

I will engage in the chargeback process and see what happens.

Thanks for the comments so far.

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Evening all

 

Can I just ask a couple more questions about legal matters.

Because I am still exploring all avenues.

 

1) Can I claim a modest amount of money for time spent trying to chase up the latest with my order and asking for a refund?

 

2) If I provide screenshots of me asking for a refund or tracking number on various platforms (ie facebook/email/trustpilot) without response, what are the chances of the above succeeding?

 

3) They keep ignoring my requests for a tracking number,  and I have also requested this information in my draft letter before action.

 

But what would happen if they ignore this request in my LBA, we went to court and they presented a tracking receipt that showed the order as being delivered at my address? 

 

Could they claim costs against me?

 

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Annoyedcustomer01 said:

Evening all

 

Can I just ask a couple more questions about legal matters.

Because I am still exploring all avenues.

 

1) Can I claim a modest amount of money for time spent trying to chase up the latest with my order and asking for a refund? - no.

 

2) If I provide screenshots of me asking for a refund or tracking number on various platforms (ie facebook/email/trustpilot) without response, what are the chances of the above succeeding? - if you mean a win at court, that's down to the judge.

 

3) They keep ignoring my requests for a tracking number,  and I have also requested this information in my draft letter before action.

 

But what would happen if they ignore this request in my LBA, we went to court and they presented a tracking receipt that showed the order as being delivered at my address? 

 

Could they claim costs against me?

 

how did the chargeback go?

 

if you went to court, eventually you would each have to exchange Witness statements, such statements must contain all the documents you each intend to rely upon 14 days before any hearing, you nor they can rockup to court and produce/use anything not already disclosed.

 

costs are limited in small claim court, you would not be able to claim anything for anything prior to the actual case, you might be able to claim your time in preparing your case and get a fixed award for time off work to attend, just as they can with their costs,

 

neither of you might get a penny for costs, that's down to the judge on the day, either of you might well be liable for all costs upon a win/lose for bothsides.


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Thanks for the reply.

 

Not been able to get through to the bank yet due to massive volume of calls, and they say online they have staff self isolating which makes sense I guess. I will try on Monday but im not hugely optimistic. Would not surprised me if most of their staff are deadling with financial issues due to the current climate.

 

I thought you had to send evidence with the letter before action? I was hoping doing so might make them look over all the evidence I have collated so they can see how badly they have dealt with the matter and that they might struggle in court.

 

This probably sounds silly but am I obliged to go through chargeback? I have made a LOT of effort to get this resolved and I have always wondered what a small court case is like.

 

 

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the relevence of chargeback is immaterial/irrelevent to/in the court process.

 

the relevence of you spenfding so much time and effort upon this is also sadly the same re any outcome or poss costs sum allowed/won

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

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This thread is dancing around a bit – and frankly so are you.

The question as to whether or not it is worth bringing an action for £40 is completely up to you. You still haven't told us who the business is.

You have absolutely the right to recover your £40. If you are dealing with a business then it is the legal responsibility of the business to get the delivery to you. Even if the item has been delivered to the wrong address, it is still up to the business to take responsibility. As I understand it, you have been trying to contact the business and there has been no response. I must say that simply this element of your transaction – the lack of engagement by the seller – the would make me want to hold him to account. If the seller started to engage in a reasonable dialogue with me and also appeared to take some responsibility such as checking up on the courier himself, I might feel less disposed to bring an action for £40 – particularly in the light of the current crisis when I'm quite sure that things will be more difficult and take much longer time.

We all know that transactions go wrong and for me the test of a good business is their response when they do go wrong. Simply to fail to contact the customer in response to enquiries or to show any further interest I think is a real abrogation of responsibility. It is not at all consumer-facing and it is businesses with this kind of mentality that need to be brought to book.

 

However you have a fundamental problem – and it is that you don't know where your proposed defendant is. You don't know his residential address. You don't know his business address. You don't know where his assets are. Without this, your chances of enforcing a judgement are zero – and in fact despite the fact that you have the right to bring the claim, a claim must be directed to a proper postal address and you don't have the information so it will be impossible to issue the claim.

You can certainly send your letter of claim by email – but what's the point? You won't be able to follow it up with the claim. If the seller has managed to transact business with you without disclosing any clue as to his whereabouts – and if he also fails to respond to any of your messages, then you are being mocked. You say that you are irritated. Doesn't this irritate your sense of principle even more?

This is another reason why you should stop protecting the seller and let us know who it is. You may well find that somebody else will visit this thread and provide some useful information which will help to move you forward.
You should also give us the name of the different company which appears on your credit card statement to have been the recipient of the money. This could be another way of tracking him down.

 

Also – there is an element here which troubles me. A business which appears to hide in some way and accepts money which is then processed through a different company. This kind of thing spells trouble to me. This is the kind of thing that I would want to make sure that people knew about for their own protection. There could be other victims – but you will never know and they will never know because you won't share your information with them.

hidden business-1 -- Consumer victims-0 

 


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