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kammx4

Direct tiles Warehouse - Faulty Tiles

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Hi

i've an ongoing issue with a ceramic tile company and wondered is there a certain length of time that i can say these tiles are not fit for purpose.

 

Bought the tiles april 2018 laid two parts of a £40,000 kitchen project.

Last part completed in november 2018

 

discovered a fault in the manufacturing of the tiles that causes them to be defective and not fit for purpose.

Have been arguing and waiting on the tile company up until now.

 

Thanks for any advice.

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The tiles have to be of satisfactory quality. This means that they have to do meet reasonable consumer expectations of that kind of tile for a reasonable period of time given all the circumstances including price paid and any claims made for them.

You say you bought the tiles – who installed them?

I think you need to tell us a little bit more detail about the tiles and what the problem is. Who did you buy them from. Which company have you been arguing with dashes at the supplier or the manufacturer? What is the value of the tiles


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They were installed by a local company for a cost of £1750.

Bought from a supplier in Wales called DTW .

 

Total cost of the tiles are £2100 in total.

The issue is not visible to the naked eye when being inspected by the installer.

 

close up.pdf close_up_2.pdf

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I'm very sorry but you're not really explaining to me what the problem is. You have posted a couple of images with absolutely no explanation or description.

We need to hear from you your explanation of what is wrong, how you discovered it, how it has affected you – in simple terms – not technical and with as little narrative as possible.

Also you better tell us something about the exchange you're having with the supplier. Have all of the tiles now been installed or have you interrupted the job.

Why don't you lay it all out in simple terms as you would explain it to a mate in the pub so that he didn't he have to keep on asking you questions. Then we can get on and understand your position and hopefully give you some advice.

 


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4 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Is this the company https://dtw-tiles.co.uk/about-us – but they seem to be in Portsmouth and not in Wales

They call themselves direct tile warehouse. I bought the tiles in April 2018. Installed 3/4 of them and finished the installation in November 2018. The problem in the pictures arose during the final grout process and is only noticeable at that time. DTW are saying to me that because ive accepted the tiles they are not now to repair or replace and we can go to small claims court. Ive sent a letter before action and a 2nd follow up letter with the same response. I've 15 tiles left. The cost to replace the defective tiles is close to £3000 pounds because of the nature of the work. The pictures are a close up of the defective tile and the 2nd picture is the estetic view.

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Thank you. That's helpful. So I don't understand is are they DTW ceramics in Portsmouth or are they DTW tiles in Wales https://www.directtilewarehouse.com/? You told us that they are DTW ceramics but in Wales – so which is it? Or is it the same company trading under a different names?


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And so I understand that for a year and 1/2 you have been arguing with this company. You have now sent them a letter of claim and then instead of following up with your threat, you have sent them another letter? Is this correct?

You say it will cost £3000 to replace – are you referring to the cost of the tiles plus the cost of removing them plus the cost of a fresh installation?

Have you had any independent assessments of the quality of the tiles, the apparent defects – and also any independent quotations for the removal and replacement of the tiles?


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Yes they raised some points in the first letter about not dating the LBA and addressing it to the manager who i've never dealt with and some questions about the tiles. Initially they just offered to replace 6 tiles but on closer inspection and a close up picture that then said replace ALL defective tiles and issue us with new grout and adhesive and pay a £1000. All without prejudice though. Its 100% DTW wales. £3000 is the total cost to replace yes. Many thanks.

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I'm sorry but you're not addressing the question again which company are we dealing with. Are we dealing with the one in Wales or the one in Portsmouth? Are they the same one? Why did you call them DTW ceramics? If you have started making those allegations about a company which is completely unrelated to the one that you have been dealing with then we have to correct it because what you're saying is then potentially defamatory. So please will you address the questions I ask.

You haven't addressed any of the questions as to whether or not you've obtained independent assessments and estimates


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Looks like a glaze defect so a manufacturing problem.

Now your first problem is the tile co are only liable for the replacement of the tiles or refund for their cost and they will have to chase up the maker to get their money back.

your second problem is the time elapsed since you bought them, you have to prove the problem was there at the time of manufacture and that will mean an independent report at your expense.

your next problem is that as you have paid someone else to install you will have let the vendor off  most of the cost as your "experts" should have noticed a problem and advided you more than a year ago. the tile seller is not responsible for your tiler being rubbish.

I would leap at their offer, you should then consider carefully who does the remedial work

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2 minutes ago, ericsbrother said:

Looks like a glaze defect so a manufacturing problem.

Now your first problem is the tile co are only liable for the replacement of the tiles or refund for their cost and they will have to chase up the maker to get their money back.

your second problem is the time elapsed since you bought them, you have to prove the problem was there at the time of manufacture and that will mean an independent report at your expense.

your next problem is that as you have paid someone else to install you will have let the vendor off  most of the cost as your "experts" should have noticed a problem and advided you more than a year ago. the tile seller is not responsible for your tiler being rubbish.

I would leap at their offer, you should then consider carefully who does the remedial work

sorry, but most of this is wrong – and it would be helpful EB – if you could wait until we get the whole story and the questions which I keep on putting properly addressed by the OP


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29 minutes ago, ericsbrother said:

Looks like a glaze defect so a manufacturing problem.

Now your first problem is the tile co are only liable for the replacement of the tiles or refund for their cost and they will have to chase up the maker to get their money back.

your second problem is the time elapsed since you bought them, you have to prove the problem was there at the time of manufacture and that will mean an independent report at your expense.

your next problem is that as you have paid someone else to install you will have let the vendor off  most of the cost as your "experts" should have noticed a problem and advided you more than a year ago. the tile seller is not responsible for your tiler being rubbish.

I would leap at their offer, you should then consider carefully who does the remedial work

Quality of the tiles not noticable until looked under a printers eye.

32 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

I'm sorry but you're not addressing the question again which company are we dealing with. I we dealing with the one in Wales or the one in Portsmouth? Are they the same one? Why did you call them DTW ceramics? If you have started making those allegations about a company which is completely unrelated to the one that you have been dealing with then we have to correct it because what you're saying is then potentially defamatory. So please will you address the questions I ask.

You haven't addressed any of the questions as to whether or not you've obtained independent assessments and estimates

As stated 100%  the company in Wales.

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Thank you. So you have the company name wrong at the beginning.

Could you please answer the questions I put about whether you had any independent assessments and quotations.

I'm out at the moment but I'll be able to give a fuller reply later on – particularly when you have answered these last questions


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I didn't realise there was another company with the same name. An independent assessment, from the only company that does this work in the UK, of the tiles would cost between £2000 and £3000. I just need to know if the time frame of the failure of the tiles to now affects my rights as a consumer.

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No the time frame doesn't particularly affect your rights. This would be a breach of contract and you have six years from the date that the cause of action arises. I would say that the cause of action has begun when you could reasonably have discovered the breach.

 

Have you got this assessment and quotation in writing? you're going to have to be very methodical as to how you deal with this and I suggest that you come to us every step of the way to be certain that you are maximising your opportunities

 

 


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also, I have to ask why are you firing off letters of claim when you don't really have a plan, you don't know what your next step is going to be and you really haven't got all of your information together.

this is the way that you lose credibility and I think that you have probably done a lot of damage to your  credibility already.

I think that you need to take a more careful and more methodical approach and make sure that you are fully ready and you fully understand the steps and that you have a plan which you will follow through before launching your attack. We will help you all the way of course


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I understand. I've sent pictorial evidence and emails and phone calls to DTW since November 2018. It took them 2 months to organise 3 types of cleaning liquid, sent from Spain, and instructions in English, but thats another story. At first they offered to give me "in good faith" 6 tiles to replace the 6 worst tiles but no reimbursement for installation which would of been met by myself. After a close inspection of the tiles under the printer lens and forwarding that picture on to DTW they then offered " without prejudice " to replace the 15 tiles i have left over, and replace the now found 15 defective in total ,  with new grout and adhesive and a £1000. But this doesn't cover the total amount to replace the 15 defective tiles. I then sought advice from WHICH legal and they forwarded me the LBA to which i forwarded on to DTW.

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Ok thanks.

i'm trying to get my head around this but please could you post up a copy of the letter of claim which you sent and also when did this happen? 

also you will have to get at least one written estimate and quotation and assessment of the damage and two will be much better.

also you will have to send notice to them that you are doing this and give them an opportunity as well to carry out their own inspection by appointment with you. Do this in writing straight away

 


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1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

Ok thanks.

i'm trying to get my head around this but please could you post up a copy of the letter of claim which you sent and also when did this happen? 

also you will have to get at least one written estimate and quotation and assessment of the damage and two will be much better.

also you will have to send notice to them that you are doing this and give them an opportunity as well to carry out their own inspection by appointment with you. Do this in writing straight away

 

I've given them every opportunity to come and look and assess  the tiles at there own discretion and it was never taken up. I've supplied them with three quotes at there bequest and told them of my actions to take this further on the 28/7/2019. The letter was posted on the 4th of December.

1. Letter-Before-Action correct. pdf.pdf

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2 hours ago, kammx4 said:

I didn't realise there was another company with the same name. 

 

They are not the same name. You told us you are dealing with DTW ceramics but actually you seem to be dealing with a completely different company which is in Wales. I'm labouring these points to try and show you how difficult you are making things for us – and of course for yourself.

 

42 minutes ago, kammx4 said:

I've given them every opportunity to come and look and assess  the tiles at there own discretion and it was never taken up. I've supplied them with three quotes at there bequest and told them of my actions to take this further on the 28/7/2019. The letter was posted on the 4th of December.

1. Letter-Before-Action correct. pdf.pdf 38.1 kB · 1 download

 

also, it's only now that you have partly addressed my question which I put in post number 8 to this thread about three hours ago as to whether or not you have had any independent quotes. You are now suggesting that you have had three quotes – although somewhere else you seem to have said that there was only one expert capable of giving this quote so forgive me but I'm not quite sure where we stand.

If you have had three independent assessments and quotes then please would you post them here.

Also, you say that you have given them every opportunity to come and look and assess the tiles…. How many letters have you written to them? And what dates were they written?
The letter of action which you have posted here for us to see seems to be reasonably competent – but it seems to be undated. Why is that? When did you actually send it? When the 14 days expired, why didn't you then follow up with your threat?

I think you will have to understand that you have come onto this forum and as far as I'm concerned we are starting from zero. If as a result of the information which we eventually discover – and it doesn't seem to be a very easy job – we decide that you have got a good case and that is worth proceeding then we will be placing you in a position of risk, albeit minimal risk, we hope. You have to give us the best chance to let you know what your chances are what your risks are et cetera.

Although we give our advice here for free, you should treat it with the same seriousness as I'm sure you would do if you are paying £300 per hour or even £400 per hour which could well be what the going rate is.

Although this is a public forum, it's not a social media game.

Please can you be careful to read the thread and to address the points and to provide the information I've asked.

 


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Just to add, this morning – that if everything pans out and you have the evidence that we think you should feel comfortable with, then you should probably look at beginning a legal action within the next three weeks.

Are you comfortable with this?


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1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

Just to add, this morning – that if everything pans out and you have the evidence that we think you should feel comfortable with, then you should probably look at beginning a legal action within the next three weeks.

Are you comfortable with this?

Happy to start proceedings. Concerned about reports not prepared by an expert only a tile installer with 15 years experience. I have 3 quotes to reinstate the defective tiles. 

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Thank you. Please post them here in scanned PDF format.

also I'm assuming that you haven't begun a county court action before in which case I suggest that you start looking at the steps as to how to bring a small claim in the county court. It is pretty straightforward but you need to know the path

 

Incidentally are you operating as a private individual or or did you purchase these tiles as a business


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On 07/02/2020 at 10:15, BankFodder said:

Thank you. Please post them here in scanned PDF format.

also I'm assuming that you haven't begun a county court action before in which case I suggest that you start looking at the steps as to how to bring a small claim in the county court. It is pretty straightforward but you need to know the path

 

Incidentally are you operating as a private individual or or did you purchase these tiles as a business

Sorry for the delay in replying but i work on the railways so a bit busy in the storm. This will a private case. Here is the letter of inspection.Would you like to see all the corrispondance so far?.

cammack 2.pdf

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Okay thanks for this letter.

I think we may as well have a look at the three quotes that you have to replace the defective tiles. Do they refer to the fact that the tiles are defective? Or are they simply quotes for removing and replacing tiles? Let's have a look


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