Direct tiles Warehouse - Faulty Tiles - Claim Issued

[BankFodder]

I don't really understand the reference to cleaning materials or what they have got to do with this.

I'm not sure that there is much more advice we can give. If you want then go ahead and sue them and we will help you draft the claim and help you along – but as I have stressed to you – I don't think you are at all ready yet.

[kammx4]

DTW 100.pdf

[BankFodder]

That is a very interesting letter. I'm a bit surprised that you didn't show it to us at the outset.

It seems there are various statements made by DTW which might be interpreted as being admissions of the problem.

In your timeline – which is very detailed – you refer to various exchanges. Is any of this in writing?

In particular, their undertaking on 26 November to replace all remaining tiles and to contribute £1000 – to have this in writing?

[kammx4]

Yes i have it in writing the offer and and their solicitors final letter says that because i accepted delivery of the tiles that they will join issue with me in court.

[BankFodder]

Could you post that letter please – I suggest you start redacting your correspondence first

Has it been sent without prejudice? Do you have any correspondence from them that is not without prejudice?

Also – when you say "accepted delivery of the tiles" are you referring to the tiles which first arrived at the beginning of the contract? There haven't been any subsequent deliveries?

[kammx4]

No they've been clever and always stated "without"

[BankFodder]

Well as they don't seem to have provided you with anything which could be interpreted as an admission which you can use in court, I'm afraid you still got to get a professional -looking independent assessment of what has happened.

I think any court would want this. I'm assuming of course that they would be prepared to go to court – but I think that they indicated that they would. If they went to court they my either deny that there were problems or they might simply deny that the problems are not as extensive or as costly as you say.

It's really going to get to you.

A professional report would be from someone who:

Quote

State their name, profession, their experience in the area of tiling and how long they have been involved in the industry.

States that they visited your premises on XXX date and they inspected tiles which had been laid. Also there had inspected any loose tiles which had not yet been laid.

They describe the way in which the tiles had been installed and whether the installation appears to have been carried out correctly or not. – Photograph number one

They examined the tiles and they found XXX characteristics – photographs number two applied – and XXX characteristic – more photographs number three

They consider that the characteristics that they found were defects in the manufacture of the tiles or else the storage of the tiles before they were sold to you – they should identify which they believe stop
these defects can be seen from time to time and are not unknown – or else he has never seen this kind of defect before but it is clearly not satisfactory.
Suppliers of tiles would normally inspect tiles before they sold them to check for this – or else suppliers would not normally be aware of this but they would be aware that these defects happen from time to time.
Consider that these defects cannot be repaired and the tiles need to be replaced.
In his opinion there are at least XX number of tiles which are showing these defects
remedies could include simply removing the affected tiles and replacing them or else replacing the entire installation.
Because of the way that these tiles are manufactured it is probably difficult to match the colour of the existing installation so in his view the entire installation needs to be removed and replaced to ensure a proper colour match (it's up to your expert to decide whether this is correct or not)
– he needs to conclude with his suggestion of the remedy which is most likely to address the problem.

He also notices that the tiles had been installed in an area where there had also been fitting of electrical installations and in his view in order to carry out the remedy he has suggested above it will be necessary to remove the political installation and then replace them after the replacement has been fitted.

He is prepared to attend court and give evidence of necessary

Dated and signed

that is the broad structure of an independent expert appraisal. If you can only get one then get one if you can get two then you are probably home and dry.

I've already said, I don't think there is much more advice we can give you. I would start searching around to find professional bodies – building companies et cetera who are prepared to come and have a look.

If you do find somebody then they will probably want to charge you and you should write to DTW and inform them that you are now commissioning professional inspections of the tiles and the installation and that you will be paying a fee for these and that if these assessments confirm your position then you will be commencing a legal action and you will be seeking the recovery of these fees as well. You're putting them on notice.

If you can get these assessments then using these as the basis you should then go out and get quotations for the work based on these assessments.

You should then send the assessments and the quotations to DTW and invite them to comment. Given seven days. If you don't hear back from them within seven days then issue letter of claim giving them 14 days and then issue the papers.

I'm afraid that's how it works and that's how it should have worked 18 months ago.

As I have already said, I don't think there is anything else we can say until you obtain this basic information.

Have you really looked around the Internet to find people who are qualified in this kind of stuff?

A very quick search has already revealed these people https://www.tiles.org.uk/your-home/find-a-tiler-by-location/

 

Have you heard of them? Maybe if you contact them they will recommend to people who they consider are experienced enough to come along and give the assessment you need. There must be others on the Internet.

Surely you can find a competent building firm near you will be happy to come along and carry out the inspection – in the hope that they will also get the work.

 

[kammx4]

Do you think that a report from a tile fitter would be classed as " expert" . The company I found actually are PhD dd's and chemists and would use proper electron microscopes to analize but at a massive cost. Thanks for your help. 

[BankFodder]

Anything will help – the more reports you get whose opinions coincide – will help. Does it really need all these microscopes et cetera? If it simply needs a magnifying glass then surely that is enough.

If you can get a number of ordinary expert assessments – one is good – two is better – then you could invite DTW to carry out their own inspection. If they then commissioned an inspection with electron microscopes et cetera which contradicts you then you will have to consider whether or not to accept it or to commission your own equivalent report and hope that it comes up with a different conclusion.

So probably you don't need anything really fancy and scientific. Close observation should be fine

 

Don't forget, if you can get a couple of good reports which shows that you are absolutely right and you use those as the basis of your claim, then it is very much more likely that DTW will end up putting up their hands because you have increased their own risk factors.

It's like everything, good preparation produces a satisfactory and predictable outcome

[kammx4]

I dont think DTW will want to use this company.

It costs between £2000 to £3000 for that report.

I get some more reports done by tile fixers. 

 

 

[kammx4]

Have you any sort of draft letter i could send when i get these reports done or should i send them to you for your perusal. When i spoke to the PHD professors one called back and asked if i have a the CE date for these tiles. Do you know what this is and should i write and ask DTW for this date sheet. Thanks.

[BankFodder]

Get the reports first and then will deal with it. It might be interesting to see them – but really this is a matter that you need to take control of. You need to be satisfied that the person has established some kind of bona fides and then they have carried out an examination in the structured way that I suggested above.

I think you got to take "ownership" of this problem and I don't really feel you are at the moment.

[kammx4]

Had this report done today.

Positive and hope it covers everything.

I can edit if needed and he will sign when its ready

 

[BankFodder]

Quote

18th February 2020.

 

 

1.    My name is Ian ‘o’ Brian and i’ve been tiling for 30 years now and have completed large projects to bathrooms and kitchens.

 

2.    I’ve been asked by Mr Bowden to give a considered expert opinion on the tiles laid throughout his £40,000 project.

 

3.    Brief description of the project

 

4.    I have been asked to comment on the quality of the tile installation and also on a problem which appears to be caused by grouting having seeped under the grout over the tile biscuit.

 

5.    The tiles have been laid to a good standard.

 

6.    I can’t see any issues in the installation or storage of the tiles at the customers home that might cause the problem but I can see that there seem to be some manufacturing flaws in some of the tiles which have been laid.

 

7.    When you look under a magnifying glass there appears to be no glaze protecting the surface of the tiles on their edges.

 

8.    I have counted about 17 tiles which have this problem.

 

9.    My client Mr Bowden has shown me pictures which he has taken and which show defects which look like very tiny pitted holes in the surface.

 

10. These defects look strange but despite this these tiny pits would not be noticed if the glaze had been applied properly in the first place.

 

11. In my opinion it is the lack of glazing to the tile which has permitted the ingress of grout into the tile in the first place.

 

12. I inspected some of the tiles that Mr Bowden has left over still in the box one would not be able to see this problem with a visual inspection.

 

13. The defect only becomes visible when the grout is smoothed into the gap between the tiles which is quite naturally left there when they have been laid.

 

14. I have never seen this problem before. It is most unusual but it is clearly the case here

 

15.  I have attempted to clean the tiles with the recommended grout film remover with chemicals supplied by the tiles supplier .

 

16.  I understand that the film remover was recommended specifically by the tile supplier with the express purpose of addressing the defects.

 

17. Application of the cleaner had no effect on the surface. This led me to believe that the grout has dried into the tiny holes in the surface.

 

18. The tiles cannot be repaired and will need to be replaced to bring this project back on track.

 

19.  It is my opinion as an experienced tyre fitter that it will not be possible to guarantee a colour match and shade match of any new tiles to be installed .

 

20. In my view it will be necessary to replace replace complete sections in areas to achieve a standard colour and shade in all areas.

 

21. This would most likely mean changing well over half the tiles and in view of the problems of colour matching, my recommendation is all the tiles which have so far been laid should be removed and new tiles should be procured and relaid.

 

22. This will be a substantial undertaking but in my view completely necessary to produce a satisfactory finish and conclusion to the problem.

 

23. I notice that a “kitchen island” has been installed over some of the tiles.

 

24.   Built into the kitchen island are various electrical installations and it is clear that this kitchen island would have to be dismantled and the electrical wiring removed during the deinstallation of the faulty tiles and the reinstallation of new tiles.

 

25.   There will probably have to be ancillary works such as the removal of various fixtures around the kitchen including the removal of architrave which afterwards will have to be reapplied in order to return the kitchen to its proper condition.

 

Yours sincerely

Ian ‘o’ Brian

 

 

[kammx4]

Anything else you think he could put in. 

 

Ian pdf 3.pdf

[BankFodder]

If you have given a brief description of the project as I have suggested above – in red, then I think that's all you need.

It should be presented in the form that I have posted for you above – clearly laid out in numbered paragraphs, one point per paragraph.

Of course it will be better if it is presented on headed notepaper.

It will be very helpful if you could get a similar report from somebody else – and I have to say that this is the first time since you initially posted your story, that I have eventually understood the problem.

As I have said, it would be helpful if you can get another report whose opinion coincides with the one you have obtained above. Also, you will need to retain at least a couple of the tiles to be able to show to a judge if it goes that far.

You will also need to get to independent quotations for the cost of the work which has been identified in the report.

The quotations do not need to be prepared in the formal way that the inspection has been prepared. They simply need to outline the work that is going to be carried out and then give a price for labour and materials – and make an allowance afterwards for any snagging or any additional complications. Probably an estimate which gives a price – and an allowance for unforeseen eventualities "not exceeding… £XXX".

Don't forget to include the costs of carting away the old tiles/debris et cetera.

[kammx4]

I have headed notepaper from his contractor.

Can i get the company in that has already done the first report to do a more detailed report.

[BankFodder]

Good.

I think it's highly likely that you will win if you have to go to court – but I'm simply making it easier for you and even increase the possibility that they will put their hands up because they will be overwhelmed by the evidence.
This is why I'm so keen that you get at least a couple of independent reports.

Get the reports – then get the quotes – then come back here

[kammx4]

Thanks for your help.

[BankFodder]

Finally, do you have the money to put the remedial work in hand straightaway?

If you do, then I would suggest that once you have the quotes and you have come back here to show us what you have, that you then write to DWT with all of the evidence, giving them seven days to comment or to carry out their own inspection – which they must do within seven days – failing which, you will put the work in hand and you will sue them.

Come back here when you have the information we need and then we will work out the details

[kammx4]

What do you mean by remedial work.

To start court proceedings?.

[BankFodder]

What do you think I mean? I mean the work of taking up all the defective tiles, in other words undoing the installation. Preparing the surface once again to lay down the new tiles, procuring the new tiles, laying the new tiles, reinstalling the electrics and reinstalling the kitchen island. Can remedial possibly mean anything else?

[kammx4]

Don't really have that kind of money at this time as i'm changing jobs right now.

As Arnie says "i'll be back"

[BankFodder]

Okay. That's fine – I'm just checking. It would have been helpful if you had started to spend the money already – but it's not too serious

[kammx4]

Just to double check with you what will i be looking for after sending the letters of to DTW.

Them to say we will settle the original quote of installation or the cost of replacing all the tiles which really we don't want to do because of the upheaval ?.