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Car Quay Ltd - Porsche mis described - Help Please


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Well it was Tuesday and of course we are in the middle of a health crisis. If you feel uncomfortable about what is happening to it so far then maybe you're right – the best thing to do is to go and pick it up, take it home and then arrange with the dealer when they will be up to deal with it and how long it will take.

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2 hours ago, nick7602 said:

UPDATE: Dealer collected the car from my home address on Tuesday, I have heard nothing back from the dealer so I sent an enquiry for information regarding the course of action with my car and still heard nothing back, [So it's only two days ago that they collected the car?  It's not very long to be chasing them.]  so I remember the owner telling me they use Zentrum a Porsche specialist in Nottingham for all their warranty work, so I phoned them to find out if they know anything about my car or if its booked in, not booked in nothing?  [Well you don't know they'll be using Zentrum and it is only two days ago.  Maybe they are assessing it themselves first, or waiting to contact Zentrum, or maybe somebody else is looking at it].

 

Apparently the car is just sitting there according to the person I spoke to on the phone  [Sitting where?  Zentrum say they don't know anything about the car but you are saying they have it?  Or are you saying it's sitting there with Car Quay?  How do you know if you've heard nothing back from them?  I'm a bit confused]

 

This is a highly specialist car, and it cant just go to anybody to be fixed

 

I don't have a warm feeling about this, from the formal letter sent to the dealer the request for a realistic work and time schedule for the car hasn't been sent to me either?

 

Im tempted to collect the car tomorrow and release it back to them when they can, progress the car diligently.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Nick

 

Maybe as BankFodder says you might be right to be concerned, but I'd have to say you are seeming a bit impatient to me.  (I know, easy for me to say as I don't know exactly how you are getting on with the dealer who you may think is being awkward).

 

I'm also a bit confused as to what telephone response(s) from the dealer you refer to in your earlier post (#46).  Did they try to telephone you after they received the email (or whatever) you sent last Friday, or was it after the previous letter (or whatever) you sent them?

 

"When we didn't respond by the end of the day and judging by the content and feel of the email sent to us by the end of that day, he became quite annoyed by making statements about the negotiations....which we felt was unfair given that the dealer had offered a reduction in price not me."  Again, I don't understand what is "unfair"?  I'm also wondering whether I'm beginning to understand his annoyance.

 

And sorry - it's also a bit confusing not knowing who is writing your posts.  I'm assuming at least some of them have been written by your father.  I think it's easier for us to follow if it's clear who is posting.  (I wonder if this has also contributed to confusion with the dealer).

 

Sorry - don't want to sound overly-critical but I think you may be jumping the gun a bit in expecting action so quickly.  Or I may be wrong and you may be right to be worried...

Edited by Manxman in exile
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Spoke with the Dealer, car is coming back to me we both agree, that is the Dealer and me, due to the current health climate and situation its best if I have the vehicle returned to me.

 

Agreed again with the dealer that once the current health climate has stabilised to some sort of normality we can return the car with view to repairing the brakes and suspension

 

 

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Well so far – the dealer doesn't seem to unreasonable although clearly he should have been a bit more careful when apparently preparing the car and checking it out.

So for the moment you will have to wait it out and see. It's up to you if you want to drive a car which is apparently not in roadworthy condition – and of course if there was an accident or you were discovered and certainly if it was shown that you knew of this then it could have serious consequences.

Also, I have are not being to pessimistic when I say that I fully expect that the health climate stabilisation may take a very considerable amount of time. Far longer than most people seem to expect at the moment.

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Yes things have changed with myself and the dealer for the better, he agreed with me it would be better for me to have the car back due to this COVID19 health concern, as I can at least monitor the battery and make sure it doesn't go flat, I can also keep the engine going so she doesn't seize up.

 

These are going to be challenging times for us all, especially our business community, I do in all sincerity feel sympathy for the dealer after he told me that a lot of his work force are off sick.

 

I think like a lot of businesses he will need all the help he can get, and the last thing he needs at this moment in time is more issues from a customer.

 

The dealer and I agree that we will re visit this concern in the future when things return to some sort of normality.

 

But Like you say Bank, that might be a long time

 

All the best to you guys and thank you all for your very kind help 

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  • 3 months later...

Hi Guys

 

its been a long time, I hope you are all well and have made it through this pandemic.

 

Unfortunately we have had to use the car much as we didn't want to,

my wife is a state registered Nurse and works on a Covid 19 ward,

the loss of her car has meant we needed to use the Porsche,

 

I have paid for brakes etc snd some electrical work totalling £2170,

I have also had the car assessed on my wife's day off and find that a lot of suspension work needs carrying out, this amounts to £3500

 

a report has been generated by the company and I have furnished this to the dealer.

total bill as you can see guys is £5670.....

 

.that said if I can get the dealer to agree the £3500 I will wave the £2170 I have paid so far,

he possibly could claw back through his VAT about a £1000 I hope this seems fair?

 

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Nick

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Hi Nick

 

Just to clarify - are your concerns about the modifications off the table now?  I think it'd been established earlier in this thread that your father was aware of "the modifications" (whether all of them or not I don't know) and even referred to them in an email exchange with the dealer.  And £3k was knocked off the price.

 

So are the brakes and suspension issues the only outstanding problems now?

 

This whole Covid thing has put a bit of a spanner in the works.  I think(?) the dealer had agreed to look at the car with a view to rectifying the brakes and suspension, but with lockdown impending you both agreed it would be better if the car remained with you until it was over.

 

Unfortunately, because of circumstances beyond your control, the car has had to be used and you've had to have work done to the car.  Were you able to inform or warn the dealer that you were going to have to have this done?

 

I think you are in a position where you simply have to agree some kind of reasonable financial resolution with the dealer.  I don't know exactly how the car was advertised but it's a 13(?) year old car with 111k+ on the clock so I suppose some work on suspension and brakes is to be expected.  Not that that excuses the car being unsafe (if it was) or misdescribed in the advert.

 

I can't really suggest anything else.  It might help if you can simply put down (1) what you thought you were buying (based on the advert and subsequent negotiations - including what your father was told about "modifications" etc) (2) what you've since realised you've bought - based on your driving experience and mechanics' reports, and (3) what you spent to buy it and what you've spent on repairs versus what you think it's worth.  I would do that not for us, but for you to put to the dealer in an attempt to resolve this.

 

I'm afraid I don't know what else to say, except to wait and see if BankFodder has any other suggestions - sorry

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Hi Manxman and good morning

 

We were both aware of a modified exhaust on the car that was the only visible sign we noted at the time of purchase, the original auto trader advert makes no mention of any modifications, the car was being sold for 15K we gave £3k deposit and the dealer reduced the price of the car by another £2k

 

Yes the suspension and safety features are still out standing, I recently within the last two weeks had a very lengthy and concise report generated by a specialist chassis company on the advice of Porsche Owners Club UK to fully understand the level of road worthiness, this didn't make good reading and to put right the car would need an investment of £3,500 roughly and this has been supplied to the dealer.

 

Yes your quite right the whole Covid 19 Pandemic has really caused a lot of problems, yes the dealer mentioned and we agreed for the car to stay with me until some sort of normality arrives, and we both would look again at the issues surrounding the car 

 

In total honesty I didn't inform the dealer, we all looked at the dealers website and truly believed that he had ceased trading and was under lockdown regulations, also felt that it would be unfair to try and contact him with the pandemic the way it was working out, my mother is a Specialist Covid 19 Nurse and because she needs to be on call and to carry out her vital work, we elected to pay for the brakes to try and make the car as safe as we could at that time for her 

 

I have contacted the dealer as mentioned in the previous thread, and he now knows that we are prepared to wave the £2170 spent one the car to date, this is because of the necessity for the car to be safe for my mom at this very crucial time, we understand the car is 12 year old car and expected to pay at some point for repairs, consumables etc, but at the very least the car should have been road worthy at the point of sale which it wasn't and still isn't partially.

 

 

Thank you for coming back to me Manxman

 

 

 

Kind Regards

 

 

 

 

 

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If the specialist report is querying the car's roadworthiness, then that should give you some useful ammo to persuade the dealer that they ought to be footing the bill to rectify it, or at least making some sort of contribution towards it.  (I believe selling an unroadworthy car is a criminal offence - not entirely sure though.  But without understanding better what the report says it's virtually impossible to say - does the report say it's unroadworthy or does it simply say it would drive/handle better if XY and Z was fixed?  ie is it a safety issue or just a driving experience issue?)

 

It's perhaps a pity you didn't inform the dealer you were going to have to have work done on it.  It might make things a bit more difficult if they dispute what work was required or how much it should have cost.

 

Reading back it seems to me that the dealer seems to have acted pretty fairly and reasonably - apart from whether the car was misdescribed originally or not.  I think you are simply going to have to work with them to come up with a solution that works for you both.  I think at the end of the day you (and your father) have to decide what the car is worth to you and weigh that up against what you've spent already and what you may have to spend in the future.  (It's an old car with 111k on the clock and being a special edition Porsche may have been thrashed a bit).  If the value is less than what you end up spending on it, you need to argue that point with the dealer.  But for all I know you may have a bargain.  (I'm not sure what you've got.  I think it was in a post together with a report from a Porsche specialist but that seems to have been deleted - or at least I can't find it.)

 

See if anybody else comes back to the thread.

 

(Just one thing about modifications.  Insurers usually ask if a vehicle has any modifications.  You've mentioned a modified exhaust but I think earlier in the thread you mentioned that a specialist report had identified some engine modifications too.  Have you informed your insurer or checked whether they are modifications your insurer ought to know about?  If you haven't told them and the car is nicked or written off, you run the risk of them refusing to pay out.)

Edited by Manxman in exile
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Hi Manxman

 

Thank you for coming back to me, the report highlights various suspension component failure, such as all four dampers need replacing, the springs are ok the dampers need to be replaced and other stability supporting components, the report states the failures, but doesn't actually say un roadworthy, im sure that if I asked the company supplying the report that would mention it was un roadworthy at the point of purchase, one concerning point they mentioned during the investigation was the rear anti roll bar being heavily corroded, and the fact that it is known if they fail it will have dire and fatal consequences. 

 

Im not trying to get the dealer to pay for the brakes it was my decision to get those fixed along with a couple of electrical starter switches, this was necessary for my mom to get to work and make the car safer than she was.

 

I agree the dealer and I got off to a bad start and I'm keen to mend bridges, I have mentioned to him already a couple of favourable options where he can recoup his money possible by claiming VAT back from receipts, and  if he agrees I will again contribute, in short I will take the bigger hit financially, im trying to work with him as opposed to upsetting him and the negativity that brings, I guess we will have to wait and see now, I don't think I can be any fairer than I am at the moment and I hope he can see that, and if all else fails I will reject the car back to the finance company, I have to sadly draw a line under this situation as we are spending a decent amount of money on HP for this car.

 

 This is only my oppinion and that is the dealer knew this car was Modified and he knew that the car needed work doing to it, it was stated to us by the saleman that all cars receive a service and a pre delivery inspection before a customer picks the car up, this could not have been done because when I mentioned the brakes had travel on them I was told they are sports brakes and take a long time to heat up, the brakes were complete useless to the point of being scary at times, further more we checked the MOT history on line and the failures we have today were an MOT advisory some years ago, the next two MOT's showed no faults with the chassis this gave us confidence along with the brilliant reviews on the dealers website to go ahead and purchase this vehicle, the truth of the matter is the first report we had done by a reputable independent service specialist highlighted issues previously found on the historical MOT's, we were also told that the car would have a service this wasn't done either because had that have been carried out they would have found the engine modifications that my service specialist has found....we are not dealing with a shabby company here if the reviews are to be believed, so I'm quite convinced they took this vehicle in as a part exchange realised it was modified and tried to get rid of it as quickly as possible.

 

Im very down hearted about the whole thing really, we took the car thinking we had bought an older car but one that had been through Car Quays servicing and  PDI checks and with the brilliant reviews this gave us confidence to buy, even now the dealer in his latest email to me is on the defensive.....stark contrast to the brilliant reviews on his website.

 

 

 

We Will See What Happens......im sick of bartering for a car which was mis described to me in the original advert and sold to me in an un roadworthy state....this cant be right

 

 

 

 

Kind Regards

 

 

 

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Hi Guys

 

as a matter of some urgency I have had contact from the dealer who is taking  a very sever high ground attitude quite wrongly in my oppinion, I would like to attach an E Mail sent to me this morning in confidence is there any possible way of doing this??

 

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Nick

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Just reproduce the email here. There's really no reason for any secret squirrel stuff.

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Hi BF

 

Sorry just got your message crossed, here is the dealers response

 

 

Quote

 

As per my previous email we were able to look at the car, had arranged pre lockdown to look at the car and were able to receive communication throughout lockdown.

A simple call or email from yourself (or the vehicles owner Joshua) would have taken less than a minute.

Disappointingly it appears to me now that you have pressed on with work with the intention all along of using the appalling pandemic we have experienced to have work carried out on your car completely at our expense without any form of authorisation whatsoever.

I will be speaking to the finance company this morning once they are open as ultimately they own the Porsche until it is paid for and will outline the steps we took prior to lockdown to have the vehicle looked at and the steps you have taken to simply press on with spending money on the vehicle with no prior authorisation from ourselves.

I will also let them know I have been in communication with the owners father rather than Joshua himself and they will probably want to discuss what has happened with Josh directly as he is the owner of the vehicle.

I will update once I have spoken to them later on this morning.

My offer still stands of a £250 gesture of goodwill.

 

 

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Okay, thanks for the above.

I'm afraid that for a number of reasons I've become quite disconnected from this thread.

The reasons are partly because of the amount of time it's all taken and the gaps. Also it seems fairly clear to me that we have had to tease out the story as to who made a contract for what – and he was aware about what – et cetera.

This has made me feel very worried about what we are hearing.

As I say, I've become quite disconnected from this thread and although I've tried to read through it, I'm still not really sure what the story is and what you're looking for.

The dealer says that the contract was with your father. Certainly it seems that various defects and so forth were communicated to your father – although at some point you claimed not to have known about them – and then at another point, you seem to have thought that because they weren't communicated directly to you, that they didn't apply to you – on the basis that the contract was actually with you.

The dealer seems to think that the contract is with your father.

Throughout this thread it has been you making the contributions. Where is your father in all of this?

They are offering £250 as a gesture. What exactly are you looking for in terms of repairs – and the value of those repairs?

 

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Im Joshuas father

 

Im authorised to speak on his behalf due to Joshuas Autism, I think going forward I need advice about where I stand today, in the previous threads things have become very confused and I don't think that it will help us in any way referring to those threads, perhaps if we start again might help all concerned and get a result, so if we just deal with the facts, or should we start a new thread and delete all previous what do you think BF??

 

 

Thank you very much for all your very kind help

 

   

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7 minutes ago, nick7602 said:

Im Joshuas father

 

Im authorised to speak on his behalf due to Joshuas Autism, I think going forward I need advice about where I stand today, in the previous threads things have become very confused and I don't think that it will help us in any way referring to those threads, perhaps if we start again might help all concerned and get a result, so if we just deal with the facts, or should we start a new thread and delete all previous what do you think BF??

 

 

Thank you very much for all your very kind help

 

   

Thanks for this.

Yes I think it will be very good idea to start again – and I think the best thing to do in order to avoid confusion is for you to register a new ID and begin a new thread.

If you'd be kind enough then to lay out a bullet pointed chronology of events involving the purchase of the vehicle and then maybe another bullet pointed chronology involving the exchanges and so forth which have happened up until now and maybe we can start to understand where everybody is.

On that basis I'm going to close this thread

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