Car Quay Ltd - Porsche mis described

[nick7602]

Hi Guys

 

Please can you help??

 

I purchased a car on finance, gave a 3000 deposit, dealer reduced the price of the car by 2000  to allow us to get into the car a generous offer we thought, however we have now subsequently found that the car has been modified away from standard and significantly so, and this isn't mentioned within the Auto trader advert.

 

That said we want to keep the car, but the modifications have severely damaged the future value of the car significantly as this is a limited edition car with a plaque and number stating that fact in the car.

 

there are also various issues with the car as you can see from the list below, this is a 2008 Car with 11000 miles on the clock 

 

What we would really like is the car to be repaired and money back reflecting the current value of the car,

 

please do you have a template letter I can send to the dealer? 

 

 

1, The Aircon system is not working.

2, Boot Release Pack Not Working

3, Drivers side window faulty, wind noise and rattling when door closes  

4, NSF front tyre is not N rated as stipulated by Porsche.

5, The Airbag warning Light staying on has not been resolved, and is still illuminated

6, The drivers seat back rest does not adjust and the switch pack is broken

 

I believe the car is not fit for purpose and poses possible safety risk.

 

1,The braking system is not working correctly 

2,The brake discs are none genuine Porsche Discs and are heavily scored and cooling holes blocked with corrosion

3, Brake callipers sticking.

4, the Front Suspension system front bump stops are rotten.

5, front dampers are corroded at the top mounts and need replacing with genuine Porsche  PASM Dampers  

6, Pin Hole in OSF Lower ARB Link Dust Cover

7, OSR Outer CV Joint Leaking Grease

 

Thank you for reading my problem

 

Kind Regards

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PIXeL_92]

I think you will be asked for the following when the more knowledgeable guys turn up;

When did you purchase the car?

Name of the dealer?

How did you pay the deposit, Cash/Debit/Credit?

Have you made the seller aware of any of the problem and if so has the dealer offered any repairs?

[nick7602]

Hi

 

I purchased the car 20. of Feb this year, the name of the dealer is Car Quay Ltd, deposit was paid by debit card.

 

We have not as yet made the dealer aware of the concerns we have, preferring to seek your professional advice before contacting the dealer

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Nick

[PIXeL_92]

Well you are within the 30 day window to reject the goods.

 

There are a few other threads that you could look at for reference but what you need to do is reject the car and make the dealer aware you are doing so in writing.

 

Looking at their reviews on Google and Auto Trader they seem like a Reputable company and I don't see them dissapearing over night over something like this.

Edited March 10, 2020 by PIXeL_92

[nick7602]

Hi

 

Rejecting the car is not really what we would like to do, we want the vehicle repairing . especially the safety items such as the suspension system, I have asked a well known and reputable Specialist in the same county as the dealer to furnish me with a quote for the repair work, because of the significant devaluation of this car would I also be entitled to compensation??

[BankFodder]

Send a letter rejecting the vehicle under the short-term right to reject contained in the Consumer Rights Act. Even if you don't want to reject the vehicle, at least you have asserted your rights and you have reserved your position.

Monitor this thread for a fuller reply later but send the letter now

[nick7602]

Thank you Bank Fodder

 

Do you happen to have a template for such a letter to be sent to the dealer

 

My Concern is, that with rejection of the car the dealer might turn around and go OK here is your money back, what would we do at that point??

 

[BankFodder]

That's a fair point.

What is the vehicle that it is so special? – Although it certainly seems to have a very low mileage. 

 

In that case I suggest that you put the dealer on notice by informing them of all the faults that you have discovered. Do it in writing – do it gently without asserting any rights or anything and see what they say. It will be interesting to test their attitude. If you do anything on the telephone – will you really shouldn't – but read our customer services guide and implement the advice there first.

If you haven't done it already maybe you need to start looking around the Internet for reviews of this company – try Google and also trustpilot to begin with see what comes up. It might give you a flavour of how customer-facing they are. Let us know what they say.

The list you have provided seems pretty detailed – did you put this together? Or do you get a professional to look the car over and check it for faults?

Separately, maybe after you have had their response, you should take the same list and the vehicle round to a couple of independent repairers – reputable ones – and get quotes for the work.

 

The problems with the brakes et cetera of course are serious and that also means that the dealer has committed an offence under the Road traffic act by selling the vehicle in that condition. I would refer to this at the outset. If they turn out to be difficult then you should leverage this against them because it could be a serious matter if he is reported.

So try them gently first and then let us know.

[nick7602]

mmmmmm oooops, I have sent the letter outlining that I am reserving the right to reject the car?

 

It did look bit officious, but its now gone in the post? this is what I put down on the heading of the letter:

 

Consumer Rights Act 2015

 

I am Reserving the Right to Reject the Vehicle Named Below,

 Under The Short Term Right to Reject section of the Act.

 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Well I'm afraid the only thing that you will damage would have been goodwill – which unfortunately is generally speaking quite important.

I suggest that if you ask questions here or make a point then you should wait for a response before firing things off to people. After all you are here for advice aren't you.

Also, the note that you have sent is even by my standards extremely curt and is really not calculated to achieve very much other than getting somebody's hackles up.

I suggest that you now start off by sending the letter which I have suggested above and try to repair any damage that you may have done until you discover that they are an unhelpful garage.

[BankFodder]

In fact I see that the assertion of rights which you have sent them has been put in the post. This will mean that it will take a day or so to arrive – maybe two days. I suggest that you send them an email immediately on the basis of which I have outlined above – placatory and reaching-out and as inoffensive as possible. Warn them that you have sent them an assertion of rights but tell them that it is simply a formality because you are exercising caution that you are sure that with their excellent reputation, that the points that you are raising in your list of faults can be addressed.

In other words I'm suggesting that you pre-empt the receipt of the note that you have sent.

[nick7602]

6 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Send a letter rejecting the vehicle under the short-term right to reject contained in the Consumer Rights Act. Even if you don't want to reject the vehicle, at least you have asserted your rights and you have reserved your position.

Monitor this thread for a fuller reply later but send the letter now

I think this was the reason I sent the letter?

[BankFodder]

Yes but that was before you made the point that they might take you at your word and insist on the rejection – which I thought was a very good point. That's why proposed more conciliatory letter

[nick7602]

I have now sent an E Mail apologising for the officious nature of the email, and hope that they will see it as purely a formality 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Okay. I suggest that you send them a letter broadly in the terms that I laid out above and send it by email.

Of course they may turn out to be very stubborn and not all consumer-facing in which case we will have to take a different approach. Let us know what happens.

You still haven't addressed the question as to what is so special about this vehicle. It would be helpful if you would do so.

[nick7602]

the car is a dream car that both my son and I have wanted for a long time, and to get one that is also a limited edition proved to hard to resist, the mileage sadly is a typo on my part, the real mileage is 111000 miles, this didn't put me off because a modern engine if looked after will last a long time, so you can imagine having realised the car is modified this has now compromised the value of it, and I would find it difficult to find a buyer going forward should we wish to sell at some point.

 

 

[BankFodder]

In that case it would be worthwhile getting a couple of good reputable quotations – totally independent – of the reduced value as a result of the modifications and maybe we can proceed for that as well.

[Manxman in exile]

What special edition Porsche is it and how has it been modified?

 

I'm assuming a relatively rare SE car of that age would attract quite a premium.  How does the price you paid for it compare to any valuation you can find for it (if any)?

 

Could the supplier at all argue that the modifications enhance the car's value?  This is what they would normally do although I can understand that if you want an original specification special edition they might well detract from the value.  Presumably the car was advertised as in original condition/specification with no mods mentioned?

 

I'd say the modifications are separate from the other faults you list.  If you want an original spec car and that's what it was advertised as, you'll be more than a little annoyed to find it's been modified.  Can the modifications be reversed so as to restore the car to original condition?  Would you be happy with that - if the supplier paid for it?  (And have the modifications affected your ability to insure the car?).

 

The other faults sound positively dangerous to me - but I'm no mechanical expert!  I'm sure the normal advice here would be to exercise the "short-term" right to reject, but of course you have reasons to want to keep the car because of its rarity/scarcity value.

 

I don't think this is a run of the mill case.  You need to consider how much you want to keep the car and at what point it becomes not worth keeping.  How much is special edition status worth to you?  Is it still a special edition if you know it has been modified, even if those mods have been removed or reversed?

 

I think it'll come down to how well you can negotiate with the seller.  On the one hand you want them to fix the faults and the mods, but on the other you don't want them to take it back and refund you.  As BankFodder says, try to maintain as much goodwill with the seller as you can, and try to be non-confrontational.

 

Not much help I'm afraid!

 

[BankFodder]

2 minutes ago, Manxman in exile said:

try to maintain as much goodwill with the seller as you can, and try to be non-confrontational.

 

 

 

.... only at the outset, I'm afraid – as soon as they start to show any reluctance then we will have to move into full-conflict-mode  

[Manxman in exile]

I think that normally the OP would be in a good position here - but what they don't want is the dealer to decide it's more trouble than it's worth to argue the toss over and say: "Here - take your money back and we'll have the car back".  In normal circumstances that might be what the OP wanted - but not here perhaps.

 

If the car does have some special rarity/scarcity value and the OP paid a good (ie low) price for it, the seller may just accept the rejection.  The OP would be weakening their bargaining position somewhat if there was any indication now that they actually wanted to keep the car...

 

Without knowing why this particular model Porsche is so desirable to the OP, it's difficult to know what's best.  Is a car that has been modified but then had the mods removed still the original specification special edition model it once was?

[nick7602]

I see what your saying, the car originally was priced at 15k, the dealer reduced the price by £2000 which at the time I thought was very generous, but at that time we honestly thought we were buying a none modified car other than perhaps a sports exhaust due to the loud nature of the exhaust note, and no mention of the reduction being because of the fact that the car is modified,

 

running a Hpi check the price indication within the report suggests the car should have been for a clean full service history example £12950,00, and this it was, and we purchased at £13000 with a deposit of £3000 From ourselves, with finance being £10000.

 

early indications from the Porsche specialist this morning now indicates mild engine modifications.......had all of this been known at the time of purchase, I would have thought that a more realistic sales figure would have been £8000 less our deposit giving  a finance figure of £5000

 

None of the modifications were mentioned anywhere in the advert on Autotrader of which I have a copy, the dealer cant also say he didn't know about the modifications because clearly stated within the advert is and I quote "all vehicles we sell are mechanically prepared and the vehicle serviced before being sold to the customer"

 

well this cant be true, because having spoken with the Porsche specialist the vehicles brakes are possibly dangerous and the vehicles Airbox has been substituted for a performance induction system, both of these concerns would have been picked up during the vehicles servicing and mechanical preparation before being handed over to the customer, so as you can now see the price given by the dealer is way off the mark and really should have been £8000.

 

Im not a stubborn or confrontational person by any means, and all the above said we will have to come to some sort of compromise, the engine mods I can sort of live with, but the braking system and suspension and components I cant, because of the safety factor to my son and I and road users.

 

 

[BankFodder]

The dealer's state of knowledge is nothing to do with it. On that matter, there is a fairly strict liability in contract. – But particularly holding himself out as a professional and also as you say, claiming that the vehicle was fully prepared – I agree that it would seem unlikely that he would not know of the modifications.

Have you given us a list of the modifications? And also are they reversible?

If they are reversible then not only do we need to understand the cost of putting the car into a proper condition – but also the cost of putting it into its basic specification.

You send the letter to the garage – I'm not too sure there is very much more we can do until we understand what the response is..

[nick7602]

Hi Guys

 

Well I have just had a quote back from the very same specialist that this particular dealer uses, and the quote is £5402.10p which includes the VAT........this quote is for only the Brakes and the the Safety related items mentioned above

 

This still doesn't include the engine mods

 

Well I really cant see him coming to the party on this amount of money

 

 

BR

 

Nick 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Yes you are probably right as you better give him 7 days or so to respond and then we can decide on the next step.

Get quotes for everything so that you are fully prepared

[nick7602]

this is the only reference to the vehicle being modified that I have stated to the dealer within the E Mail trail, the modification I was referring to was the exhaust system, I have absolutely no way of knowing that the engine was modified because of the engine is internal inside the cabin of the vehicle and not possible to view without stripping the vehicle down

 

Quote

 

Hi Jamie

 

Thank you for coming back to me, I did make it clear from the outset that there was no deposit ( see attached ) and I was more that happy to go ahead with the car even with the knowledge that it is……. modified……. has intermittent electrical issue, and a none main dealer service history, along with 110000 miles on the clock, and cosmetic issues to fix I was still more than happy to go along with the deal.

 

As you own the car I guess you can sell the car for any price you like really, I understand cars its my job,  but the average person doesn’t and possibly this car will come back and bite you especially with the fact its modified and the electrical issues.

 

I to have seen another car which I am impressed with and its a younger model for less money……give it some thought Jamie….if you want to press ahead with the deal for 15K with someone else OK by me….but do make the new owner aware the car is modified