Am I entitled to a refund if my ski holiday trip is cancelled by the company?

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

 

I have recently booked a ski trip with a company called NUCO. They have announced that if the FCO changes the travel to Tignes destination to "Nothing but urgent" then NUCO will cancel the trip and none of us will be entitled to a refund. It is a university trip of 1500 people. 

 

Please help! I am looking to 'hopefully' find out if there are laws that will guarantee us a refund on this! 

 

Cheers,

Ryan

[honeybee13]

Hi Ryan.

 

I think we need more information before we can advise please. What do the terms and conditions you booked under say, please? Also do you have travel insurance?

 

Is this them?

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=nuco+ski+trip

 

HB

[BankFodder]

I would have thought that without a doubt you would be entitled to a refund.

Are you really saying that 1500 people are being threatened with the cancellation of the trip and no refund?

[honeybee13]

Here are the Ts and Cs.

 

https://nucotravel.com/booking-conditions-2019-20/

 

ETA: I wonder if this is what they're quoting although it doesn't sound very fair.

 

20. FORCE MAJEURE – Except where otherwise expressly stated in these Booking Conditions we will not be liable or pay you compensation if our contractual obligations to you are affected by any event which we or the supplier(s) of the service(s) in question could not, even with all due care, foresee or avoid. These events can include, but are not limited to war, threat of war, civil strife terrorist activity and its consequences or the threat of such activity, riot, the act of any government or other national or local authority including port or river authorities, industrial dispute, lock closure, natural or nuclear disaster, fire, chemical or biological disaster and adverse weather conditions, epidemics and pandemics, unavoidable technical problems with transport and all similar events outside our or the supplier(s) concerned’s control. Advice from the Foreign Office to avoid or leave a particular country may constitute Force Majeure.

 

HB

[BankFodder]

It sounds extremely unfair. At the very least they should be required to divest themselves of their profits so that customers might get a certain percentage back – but I wonder how enforceable the whole thing really is.

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

 

Thanks honeybee - yes that is the correct company. 

Here is the insurance I took out as part of booking the package: 

https://nucotravel.com/app/uploads/2019/07/IPID_2019_NUCO_NS9-0046052-Standard-A.pdf

Which clearly states if FCO change the guidelines advice, then it is NOT covered. 

 

So, I was wondering if we had any law/legal experts that knew of any laws that might protect us, or if its dumb luck and I should take out another insurance to cover it

[BankFodder]

Yes, but that is the insurance. The insurers are protecting themselves against having to reimburse you. If you have any rights to reimbursement then it is the holiday company who would have to reimburse you and frankly it really should be down to the holiday company to insure themselves against this kind of thing – not you.

This is exactly the kind of thing that we have with delivery companies such as Hermes where they refuse to reimburse you in respect of their own breaches of contract or their own negligence if you don't insure against it. It's also a type of extended warranty where companies want you to insure against the failure of the products which they sell you in case they are substandard or defective in some way.

If you could bring some of your friends who are also going on this holiday along here to post their own threads and to express their concerns then I might be able to get some press attention to focus on this. It sounds like a good story.

[RyanB96]

So, some further information. 

 

A friend called Endsleigh - the insurance company - who apparently told him that if the FCO change the guidelines, and the trip gets cancelled, then if we give endsleigh written confirmation of the trip cancellation, then endsleigh can get the money to refund us from the government. 

 

Given that their policy specifically states that FCO guideline changes against travel are specifically not covered, this sounds like a load of BS - but could their be truth in it? Will the govt reimburse endsleigh to reimburse us? 

 

[unclebulgaria67]

Legislation that may help.   Particularly 12 (7), if the traveller was to cancel.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/634/contents/made

 

Termination of the package travel contract by the traveller

12.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

(2) A traveller may terminate the package travel contract at any time before the start of the package.

(3) Where the traveller terminates the package travel contract under paragraph (2), the traveller may be required to pay an appropriate and justifiable termination fee to the organiser.

(4) The package travel contract may specify reasonable standard termination fees based on—

(a)the time of the termination of the contract before the start of the package; and

(b)the expected cost savings and income from alternative deployment of the travel services.

(5) In the absence of standardised termination fees, the amount of the termination fee must correspond to the price of the package minus the cost savings and income from alternative deployment of the travel services.

(6) The organiser must provide a justification for the amount of the termination fee if the traveller so requests.

(7) Notwithstanding paragraphs (2) to (6), in the event of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances occurring at the place of destination or its immediate vicinity and which significantly affect—

(a)the performance of the package, or

(b)the carriage of passengers to the destination,

the traveller may terminate the package travel contract before the start of the package without paying any termination fee.

(8) Where the package travel contract is terminated under paragraph (7), the traveller is entitled to a full refund of any payments made for the package but is not entitled to additional compensation.

 

The will argue that Force Majeure  clause overrides any rights for you to cancel the trip in the circumstances and to request a full refund.

 

Travel weekly article

 

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/359686/coronavirus-what-are-the-legal-implications-for-package-tour-organisers

[honeybee13]

11 minutes ago, RyanB96 said:

So, some further information. 

 

A friend called Endsleigh - the insurance company - who apparently told him that if the FCO change the guidelines, and the trip gets cancelled, then if we give endsleigh written confirmation of the trip cancellation, then endsleigh can get the money to refund us from the government. 

 

Given that their policy specifically states that FCO guideline changes against travel are specifically not covered, this sounds like a load of BS - but could their be truth in it? Will the govt reimburse endsleigh to reimburse us? 

 

 

I haven't read that in the press. I'd be asking Endsleigh to confirm it in writing but wouldn't hold out much hope.

 

Do you have the Ts and Cs for Endsleigh's travel policy?

 

HB

[RyanB96]

I have these: 
https://nucotravel.com/app/uploads/2019/07/SOI_2019_NUCO-Standard_NS9-0046052_A.pdf
https://nucotravel.com/app/uploads/2019/07/Policy_2019_NUCO_NS9-0046052_NS9-0046060-A.pdf

https://nucotravel.com/app/uploads/2019/07/IPID_2019_NUCO_NS9-0046052-Standard-A.pdf

 

The third one has whats not covered and is why I am very sceptical of it 

[dx100uk]

I'm sorry but this so sounds like a uni project question it's unreal...

 

I would gather this is with the full support and on behalf of the uni itself.

therefore their existing insurance should cover any reinburse every one of the 1500 students fron their uni going abroad.....

[RyanB96]

Where it gets tricky is that half our group is no longer at uni, but have friends at uni still hence going on the uni trip as 'alumni'. Not sure if that complicates stuff

[dx100uk]

who have all the people going paid their money too?

 

[RyanB96]

NUCO

[honeybee13]

'Complete peace of mind that you're guaranteed full protection.' Someone may say that I've missed a detail, but this is what they're advertising. Might be worth keeping a screenshot, Ryan.

 

https://nucotravel.com/about/protection/

 

HB

[unclebulgaria67]

 

Other booking terms from NUCO are below.  FCO guidance about travel is just that 'guidance'. Very rarely would Government actually ban travel to an area.

 

""if your holiday is terminated as a result of your breach of the rules of personal conduct in section 14 below, or in the event of “force majeure”. Force majeure means circumstances such as war or threat of war, riot, civil strife, industrial dispute, terrorist activity, natural or nuclear disaster, fire, technical problems, adverse weather, accidents with transport, government action and any other similar events beyond our control. In these circumstances, we cannot accept liability or offer compensation or refunds if we are forced to cancel, curtail or change, in any way, your holiday or where the performance or prompt performance of our contractual obligations is prevented or effected.

We will not, where possible, cancel your travel arrangements less than 35 days before your departure date, except for reasons of force majeure or failure by you to pay the final balance. We may cancel your holiday before this date if, e.g., the minimum number of clients required for a particular travel arrangement is not reached.""

[unclebulgaria67]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-the-foreign-commonwealth-office-puts-together-travel-advice

 

From the Gov.uk site on the FCO advice

"How travel companies and airlines use our travel advice

Travel companies and airlines often take our advice into account but the decision to cancel or reschedule a flight, holiday, tour or excursion is a decision that can only be taken by the travel company and the customer. The question of refunds is a matter that must be resolved between the customer and the relevant airline, tour operator or travel agent. We don’t dictate when travel can or can’t take place.

If you have booked a package holiday, your travel company must comply with the Package Travel Regulations. Part of this law says that customers are entitled to a refund or an alternative holiday if there has been a significant change since the time of booking.

Travel insurance companies sometimes refer to our travel advice in their policies. For example, your policy may not provide cover if you travel to a country where the FCO advise against all, or all but essential travel. Some travel insurance policies may allow you to claim if you cancel a journey because of a change in our travel advice.

Make sure your travel insurance policy includes the cover you want. See our Travel Insurance page.

[unclebulgaria67]

Appears to me that the advice must be to buy a Travel Insurance now that would cover the risk.  The FCO have not published any advice yet on travel.  No issue has yet arisen, which would cause the holiday to be cancelled  Nuco have simply told you that they would argue 'force majeure'.

 

So the answer to the people who have booked this holiday is to check that their Travel Insurance covers them and if not to cancel and take out alternative Insurance that does provide the cover.

[RyanB96]

That was my conclusion also, and I took out an additional policy now too. Still, seems a bit poor for those that dont realise / forget / etc. 

[unclebulgaria67]

Ask the University if they would publish some form of notice to those who have booked any holidays. General information.

 

Provide them with a copy of the Nuco letter and explain that it may be advisable for anyone who has booked any form of holiday to make sure that they have Travel insurances which provides adequate cover.  The University may not wish to offer advice as such, but if you explain that 1500 current and former students have booked this trip through Nuco, a lot of people are affected.  Plus it will not just be Nuco, but other travel companies, so other students could be affected.