Cabot/Nolans SPC Claim - Newday Marbles Card

[dx100uk]

as they always say

plenty of nolan threads for you to read here

 

you have used our search top right and typed in nolans and been reading up haven't you?

 

dx

 

[StandFirm11]

yes, I've read almost every single one several times haha. Expenses are still capped to £150? I'm actually glad they have now brough the default notice issue on to the table. Now they have to answer to it.

 

This is the 2nd batch of documents sent with reference to caselaw for the lack of DN.

Section87caselaw.compressed.pdf

 

Any thoughts or help you can provide with this Dx? I'll probably need to submit my written submissions tonight or early tomorrow.

[dx100uk]

Having just read what they state .

Not very strong from them sadly...

 

Just a load of ole bunkum trying to convince the sheriff the scots law overrides the necessities of the consumer credit act. 

 

The fact you had that email exchange earlier before your form 7 return is immaterial.

 

I also find it strange they still believe section  4 requires a respondent to admit or deny  a debt before they produce the required paperwork under the cca which of course they are supposed to do at claim submission and clearly stated on the claimform they held

 

p'haps andyorch will pop in on the Dont need a dn bit before we write you basic return tonight.. before our full one due on the 11th

[StandFirm11]

Yeah, I think it's a bit waffly too.

 

The e-mail correspondence I think I have covered my self. I stated in bold it was without prejudice and if asked by the sherrif I will also clarify like you said that at that point I had received no evidence in support of their claim. I was an inexperienced layman panicking at the thought of going to court and simply trying to settle the matter without prejudice and without acknowledging anything. Now that the matter is going through court I'm putting them to task to prove their legal right to enforce the debt.

 

Hopefully there is room to let the sherrif hang them, the sherrif wasn't impressed with their arrears argument at the last CMD. It was almost immediately after that sherrif called for the hearing. I don't know if that's good or bad for me. Their comments on the DN issue seem very waffly, lots of assumptions. They are basically saying something along the lines of "well the OC issued letters for other stuff, so they must have issed the DN". I find it hard to believe a sheriff will accept that. And they have a cheek to comment on the quality of my defence.

 

About them saying now it's for arrears, if I'm understanding correctly...

 

- If it was for arrears only, then the OC would still own the debt and Nolans would be acting for the OC? (which isn't the case)

- It would also be for missed payments and not the entire balance?

- if Cabot claim to own the debt (which they do), then the debt must have terminated & sold and a requirement before doing so would be the sec 87/88 default notice from the OC?

 

It's a very important part of the debt selling process that they seem to think isn't necessary.

 

I appreciate all your help Dx

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

correct

 

 

[dx100uk]

working on a few notes for you now.

 

 

[dx100uk]

the respondent has never admitted owing this debt outside of a previous without prejudice offer made by email. (add your bit in)

 

the claimant has included a copy of a generic deed from the original creditor covering a multiple debt portfolio purchase (as outlined in my defence) that is not a notice of assignment from the original creditor clearly stating the litigated debt has been sold to the claimant.

 

The respondent cannot intimate a denial nor admittance to claims made on form 4a as they are awaiting documentation from the claimant under a Section 78 CCA request or otherwise that the claimant clearly stated they held within their submittance on form 3a. Scottish Law does not overwrite nor remove the requirements under the consumer credit Act

4.4    What has to go in the Response Form?
(1)    The respondent must set out in the Response Form the following information:
(a)    which facts (if any) set out in the Claim Form that the respondent agrees with,
(b)    which facts (if any) set out in the Claim Form that the respondent disagrees with and why,
(c)    why the respondent thinks that the claimant should not get what was asked for in the Claim Form, or why the claimant should only get some of what was asked for in the Claim Form,
(d)    what steps the respondent has already taken (if any) to try to resolve the dispute with the claimant.
(2)    The respondent must indicate in the Response Form if the respondent thinks that there should be any additional respondents.
(3)    The respondent must list in the Response Form any documents, files, or other evidence that the respondent thinks support the response.
(4)    The respondent must list in the Response Form any witnesses that the respondent thinks support the response.

 

Promoloria RAM v Moore 2017 CSOH 88 is totally irrelevant to any proceedings and concerned a loan of some £14M, again this is nothing to do with nor would a loan of that value be ever covered by the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

The claimant can believe or make whatever assumptions they like as to what they think might have happened at the hearing of the 1st October, the respondent merely pointed out remembering having past financial dealing with the original creditor as intimated in my defence.

 

you have the default notice stuff to quote already.

 

add 
The claimant quotes section 87 and 88 of the consumer credit Act

sec 87 1 C clearly states a default notice must be issued to enforce any security. court action being such.

the claimant appears to be confusing the above with the need to only issue a Notice Of Sums In Arrears to claim only arrears. The Claimant is claiming the full outstanding balance not only arrears under the Agreement.

 

The credit agreement was terminated by the original creditor on or before sale . 

 

the Claimant cannot be a creditor so are not they able to Offer Credit, they are not registered as a Creditor with the governing body ...the FCA . 

[StandFirm11]

Dx, you're a legend.

 

I'll get this knocked up in the morning and post here to let you see first.

 

The default notice stuff meaning from the draft I posted in post #68?

 

I meant to ask, so nolans haven't actually sent anything to me directly, they have submited a list of evidence (written submission) to the court. I assume this is their final written submission?

Should I still send this to them directly? or should I lodge it with the court?

 

Order states - written submissions exchanged by parties by 02/11

Final written submissions and evidence lodged to court by 11/11.

Edited November 4, 2020 by StandFirm11

[dx100uk]

how did nolans send theirs by email?

 

dx

 

[StandFirm11]

Yes, to the court directly, but with a evidence court submission form attached which makes me think it's their final submission.

 

I wasn't copied into the e-mail and haven't received anything by post. I only came across it because I randomly checked the online portal.

[dx100uk]

oh so they have totally ignored what they were supposed to do and that is exchange initially between yourselves to narrow issues, then make a final submission direct to the court by the 11th.??

 

dx

 

 

 

[StandFirm11]

Yes exactly they haven't sent anything to me and submitted a 10a List of evidence form with the written submission and docs I posted up here.

 

This is a copy and paste from the order

 

"The Sheriff, in Chambers, by way of teleconference call, having heard from parties, Continues the cause to 16 November 2020 at 10:00am as Hearing on submissions; Orders written submissions be exchanged between both Parties by no later than 2 November 2020; thereafter Ordersfinal Written Submissions, and any other documents either Party may rely on, be lodged with the Court no later than close of business on 11 November 2020"

 

I checked the e-mail that was also scanned up and it was sent directly to the court, I've not been copied in.

Edited November 4, 2020 by StandFirm11

[dx100uk]

ok great 

they haven't a clue what they are doing then.

 

forget sending anything to nolans

forget sending anything to the court till the 11th stuff 'em.

 

go ring the clerk tomorrow.

 

watch the word i use please...

 

tell them that nolans have ignored the specific orders of the sheriff made date xxxx and have filed directly to court without first trying to narrow the issues which you were welcome to do.

 

they have also failed to forward to the respondent any of the documents intimated in their list of evidence

has the Clark got them please?

 

you see little point in the judge making orders if the claimant do not abide by them, what is he going to do about it please?

 

i cannot complete my submission due on the 11th until i have copies of ALL the evidence the claimant relies upon.

 

the claimant imho opinion and sorry for swearing is taking the piss here we have already had one hearing that they failed to supply and were given even more time to disclose, they still have failed to date please advise.

 

dx

 

[StandFirm11]

Great, thanks DX, will do that first thing.

 

I am sorry though I just double checked the 10a list of evidence form and it's actually a further submission of arrears/accounts suspended letters etc. No default notice nothing that complies with section 87/88, just waffle.

 

But, they have still e-mailed the court directly with the written submission and not copied me in or sent anything to me.

 

I know it's a small change of details, should I still ring the clerk?

[dx100uk]

but you nor the court? have the actual documents in their list of evidence yet so where are they? 

they have now had 3 chances to disclose , they haven't.

[StandFirm11]

No, the documents are attached, it's letters saying the account has been suspended until I make a minimum payment and FCA arrears letters, just waffle I think.

[dx100uk]

go through their written statement

list the productions they refer too like C1 C2 c3 c4

 

so those are the ones in the section 87 pdf.?

 

they still have not produced the default notice? ...sunk dead.

 

dx

 

[StandFirm11]

C1 - E-mails from me
C2 - Letter attached e-mail with WOP offer
C3 - CCA electonically signed
C4 - Statements of account
C5 - Intimation of assignment - Letter from nolans I posted in #47 (attached to CCA).
C6 - deed of assignement (post #56)
C7 - Copy of suspended accounts letters - Letters advise of arrears and missed payment for that month.

That's everything they have submitted in evidence 10a forms.

 

So still
- No NOA from OC
- No DN

[dx100uk]

just to focus things.

i've put the deed and CCA return uploads here.

 

the deed ...the last page i will assume has a list of peoples debts that the deed covers (missed this)

the one not redacted shows a debt of the same value , what is the relevance of hamilton??

this looks like your debt, if it is

 

i'm not sure if a copy of the mass sales of debts under a porfilio covers their need for a specific document entitled 'notice of assignment.

 

however the letter with the CCA return is from Nolans , that certainly is not one

 

hopefully someone is going to pop in over the coming days to help.

 

i am also not happy with the fact hey have used your without prejudice email as an exhibit to court. 

 

dx

Marbles-Cabot-Nolans CCA return.pdf Cabot deed.pdf

[StandFirm11]

Thanks Dx, Hamilton is is just the area/town. Yes, it appears to be my debt, I've just redacted my personal info.

 

Are you expecting a specific person to come in to help? it's just I think me and you are the only ones that have been posting here. I don't imagine a random someone else will now pop in and start offering help now.

 

Hoping to try and get this all put together today/tomorrow as deadline is Nov 11th. Any help would be appreciated as I expect them to pick apart anything I send as it likely won't be up to their "legal" standards.

[dx100uk]

doesn't have to be upto any legal standard you are a litigant in person.

 

i would get a statement up here for us to be able to read/edit/help on.

main focus being the DN.

[dx100uk]

On 04/11/2020 at 01:08, dx100uk said:

the respondent has never admitted owing this debt outside of a previous without prejudice offer made by email. (add your bit in)

 

the claimant has included a copy of a generic deed from the original creditor covering a multiple debt portfolio purchase (as outlined in my defence) that is not a notice of assignment from the original creditor clearly stating the litigated debt has been sold to the claimant.

 

The respondent cannot intimate a denial nor admittance to claims made on form 4a as they are awaiting documentation from the claimant under a Section 78 CCA request or otherwise that the claimant clearly stated they held within their submittance on form 3a. Scottish Law does not overwrite nor remove the requirements under the consumer credit Act

4.4    What has to go in the Response Form?
(1)    The respondent must set out in the Response Form the following information:
(a)    which facts (if any) set out in the Claim Form that the respondent agrees with,
(b)    which facts (if any) set out in the Claim Form that the respondent disagrees with and why,
(c)    why the respondent thinks that the claimant should not get what was asked for in the Claim Form, or why the claimant should only get some of what was asked for in the Claim Form,
(d)    what steps the respondent has already taken (if any) to try to resolve the dispute with the claimant.
(2)    The respondent must indicate in the Response Form if the respondent thinks that there should be any additional respondents.
(3)    The respondent must list in the Response Form any documents, files, or other evidence that the respondent thinks support the response.
(4)    The respondent must list in the Response Form any witnesses that the respondent thinks support the response.

 

Promoloria RAM v Moore 2017 CSOH 88 is totally irrelevant to any proceedings and concerned a loan of some £14M, again this is nothing to do with nor would a loan of that value be ever covered by the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

The claimant can believe or make whatever assumptions they like as to what they think might have happened at the hearing of the 1st October, the respondent merely pointed out remembering having past financial dealing with the original creditor as intimated in my defence.

 

you have the default notice stuff to quote already.

 

add 
The claimant quotes section 87 and 88 of the consumer credit Act

sec 87 1 C clearly states a default notice must be issued to enforce any security. court action being such.

the claimant appears to be confusing the above with the need to only issue a Notice Of Sums In Arrears to claim only arrears. The Claimant is claiming the full outstanding balance not only arrears under the Agreement.

 

The credit agreement was terminated by the original creditor on or before sale . 

 

the Claimant cannot be a creditor so are not they able to Offer Credit, they are not registered as a Creditor with the governing body ...the FCA . 

^^^^^ like

[StandFirm11]

Thanks DX, I'll get something drafted up today.

 

Now they state in their written submission that they are claiming arrears. If I was able to find in my credit report an entry stating the default date. Would this be admissable? and should I go down this route?

 

This would challenge that their claim is actually for arrears, and would allow me to go on nicely to sec 87/88 where the DN is required if the debt as been terminated and sold.

[dx100uk]

evidence from your credit file that states in the SUMMARY section

defaulted DAte = xxxxx

you can produce

 

AND ofcourse the resultant entry below that says outstanding or balance £xxx will be fatal to them.

and will prove a default notice was issued by the OC so they need a copy of it or proof it was sent from the OC to litigate under sec 87/88.

 

well thats the way i read it from years on here and numerous cases mostly in england whereby failure to produce a copy of the dN has been fatal to a claim many many times.

 

i am leaning toward you making your statement  'a brief timeline' statement as they have rather than only retorting to theirs.

might make the story and it's issued seem more focussed to sheriff.

 

did we ever SAR newday? sorry on a small screen ..out sheep herding

 

 

 

 

 

[StandFirm11]

I didn't SAR newday, no.

 

Do  you think it's risky looking into the credit file? as if a default is there, then could it also go against me and the assumption could be made that  as the debt has been defaulted on the credit file, it's reasonable to  assume the DN was also issued also?

 

The line of thinking was to trip them up. They say they are claiming arrears only, but if I can show a default date on my credit file, it may lead the sherrif to prompt further and ask why they have stated they are claiming arrears etc.

 

Also what is the real risk to me here, I don't want to consider losing of course but I need to understand the possible outcomes. I see costs are capped at £150, but they can ask for additional expenses etc in some cases which they no doubt will.