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vcs pcn claimform - JLA Liverpool Airport-no stopping


Didusha
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correct just yours .... if others are not your data no need to redact other peoples.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have scanned and uploaded the letter and contract only. The rest of the pack includes the initial PCN, various demand for payment letters, the letter before claim, which I have uploaded previously. In a separate pdf, I have included my appeal, for which I had no record up until now, because it was done via their site.

CPR reply 1.pdfapp.pdf

Edited by Didusha
Incorrect wording
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I've just had the most superficial of looks at the contract, and see it started 8 July 2013 ... "for a fixed period of 24 months".  Ho! Ho! Ho!

We could do with some help from you.

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Have you written to Liverpool airports about why you stopped? The reason I ask is because in their contract with the crooks it states  at 3.8 that LJA can write to VCS and ask them to cancel.

A letter similar to the one you wrote yourself to VCS with a couple of tweaks might get them to see sense where it is sadly lacking with VCS  [Very Certainly  Scumbags].

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No, I haven't written to JLA, but I did notice it when reading through the contract.

I suppose it wouldn't affect the court claim negatively.

Not sure whether they will be any more reasonable than VCS, however it may be worth a try.

 

Normally, at those type of  barriers you can speak to someone to let you go through and come out on the other side, I know they have them at other airports. But in this case I don't remember seeing one, hence my panic.

What tweaks would you advise to use?

 

 

On 28/01/2022 at 11:53, FTMDave said:

I've just had the most superficial of looks at the contract, and see it started 8 July 2013 ... "for a fixed period of 24 months".  Ho! Ho! Ho!

 

Would the Contract witness statement at the end signed on 19.10.2015,  with no mention of contract end date, mean that the contract is in place indefinitely?

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Not at all.  It's not a contract.  It's just some bod saying something. 

 

So they have shown a contract which lasted from 08.07.2013 to 07.07.2015, and then a statement (not a contract) saying they were running the place in 2015. 

 

You got your ticket in 2020!

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We could do with some help from you.

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After reading through several posts, the below defence is what people have used.

I will be submitting it today.

 

Do I need to admit to being the driver as well as the keeper(1). I have appealed, so they know I was the driver.

 

1. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of xxxxxxx

 

 

 

2. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper claimant is the landowner

 

 

 

3. It is denied that the Defendant breached any terms and conditions set on private land.

 

 

 

4. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant, or broke any such contract.

 

 

 

5. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

I will be submitting my defence today.

Do I need to admit to being the driver as well as the keeper. I have appealed, so they know I was the driver.

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as is.

at this stage it doesnt matter about your appeal

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 months later...

Hello,

 

I have had a recent development regarding the court claim.

I received a letter from the court ordering VCS to resubmit their particulars of claim 1653045170645_1653044813811653045170645_1653044813810_May 20, Doc 1 (1).pdf0_May 20, Doc 1 (1).pdf

 

In response to the letter, recently I received the below from VCS.

May 20, Doc 2.pdfMay 20, Doc 2.pdf

 

I have until 15 of June to respond. I have a few of questions:

1. Do I resubmit my defense, and change its content to reflect the new particulars of claim? It claim hasn't changed significantly, but there are now paragraphs.

2. If so, do I do it online or directly to the court, as it has already been allocated.

3. Also, the last communication with VCS prior to this, has been from Elms and their instructions were to send everything to Elms. I now see that they are sending everything themselves. In the letter from the court, it says send copies to the claimant's solicitor. If I need to resubmit my defence, who do I send copies to? 

 

Thank you in advance.

 

I am trying to find another thread where this has happened, so far I haven't been successful, so if you know of any, please could you share.

 

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The court order says that you "may send ... a defence in substitution" so you don't have to, but you have the opportunity to do so if you wish.

 

A quick superficial read through VCS's document seems to show they have actually bothered to comply with the court order and give the details the judge ordered.

 

Work calls now but I'll have a proper read through things this evening and get back to you.

We could do with some help from you.

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Right, first the bad bit.  Usually VCS's roboclaims which mix driver & keeper and don't really state what they are suing you for sail through the court system as they staff don't have the time to check everything.  In your case you seem to have found a particularly excellent judge who has picked up on their tripe and made them specify the details properly.  Had you not appealed, you would be home & dry now, as no way would Simple Simon be able to say if they were relying on POFA or not and in which role they were suing you, etc.  Every single one of us on CAG have made mistakes in legal disputes in the past - that's just inevitable when someone has no prior experience - but please learn for the future and if you ever again get one of these invoices never appeal.

 

We deliberately make the defence as generic as possible so it can cover any eventuality.  "4. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant, or broke any such contract" can cover all your remaining points later in your Witness Statement -  

 

No Locus Standi, so no contract entered into;

No planning permission, illegal signage, so no contract entered into;

Prohibition, so no contract entered into;

10-minute grace period so no contract broken;

not a parking event, so no contract entered into;

double recovery.

 

So just my opinion, but on reflection I don't think you need to chance your defence.

 

However, hang on a while and see what the other regulars think - you have till 15 June - as I say we don't normally see a judge demand this amount of detail from the fleecers.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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I think that you should point out in your new  defence that the original cause of action was using the Protection of Freedoms Act Sch 4 s9 [2][f] allowing the transfer of liability from the driver to the keeper   because your car was stopped by a barrier. It would seem fairly obvious that any driver would be forced to stop at a barrier so the No Stopping rule surely could not apply on that sector of the road. It follows that the road therefore  is not relevant land and the Protection of Freedoms Act should not have been introduced on this case. It was indeed fortunate for them that you declared yourself the driver otherwise VCS may have had difficulty in explaining why they were invoking PoFA when it couldn't apply.

 

[ You have a Judge who has their card marked so the above might put VCS in a ticklish spot  before the Judge decides if there is a case , since if the land is not relevant land, they should not be claiming they have the ability to transfer the liability from the driver to the keeper.]

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello, 

 

My deadline for resubmitting my defence, if I wish, is slowly approaching - 15th June.

I will be doing so by email( VCS did so with their particulars of claim) and sending a separate copy to VCS via post.

 

I added the suggested amendment the best I could. 

 

Even if I choose not to change it, am I required to send the original defence to the court? Or, do I just leave it and wait.

 

1. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of xxxxxxx

 

 2.As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper claimant is the landowner

 

 3. It is denied that the Defendant breached any terms and conditions set on private land.

 

4. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant, or broke any such contract.

 

 5. The initial cause of action used Protection of Freedom's Act Sch 4 s9 [2][f] allowing the transfer of liability from driver to keeper due to the vehicle being stopped by a barrier.

Any driver would be forced to stop at a barrier, therefore the '46) Stopping in a zone where stopping is prohibited ' as part of the alleged terms and conditions provided by the Claimant, could not apply on that section of the road.

It follows, that the road therefore is not relevant land and the Protection of Freedoms Act should not have been introduced on this case.

 

6. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

Thank you for all your input.

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if you dont wish to submit a new defence

there is no need you do anything.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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On your point 5, this seems to give credence to the claimant using POFA for Stopping Events. POFA only relates to Parking and Stopping is not Parking.

 

As the new Private Parking Code of Practice Feb 2022 makes clear, POFA envisaged circumstances where a wheel-clamp may otherwise have been applied i.e. to a stationary, generally unoccupied, vehicle.

 

Further, from Private Parking Code of Practice Feb 2022:
parked/parking = an instance of a vehicle being caused by the driver to remain stationary other than in the course of driving (excluding instances where the driver has stopped to enable passengers leave or enter the vehicle)
stopped = an instance of a vehicle being caused by the driver to remain at rest whilst in the course of driving

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