UKPL/UCS Windscreen PCN - UKPL/UCS Windscreen PCN - Castle Car Park, Jennings Yard, River St, Windsor, Berks, SL4 1QT

[pep21]

last August 2019 my girlfriend went to Legoland with the kids 4 and her mum and then went to Pizza Express in Windsor.

They parked at Castle Car Park.  

 

paid to park and went to eat.

were then a few minutes late back.

There was already an attendant issuing a ticket.

The attendant then waited until my girlfriend was over ten minutes late to issue the ticket despite her being there well within any grace period.

 

My girlfriend appealed to Ultimate Customer Solutions end of August but did not receive a response

(they later said they emailed a rejection which my girlfriend never received until it was resent).

 

in August she received the first debt collection letter.

my girlfriend was advised to respond to UCS requesting an Subject Access Request (SAR) which they have not ever acknowledged or responded to. 

 

then we thought they had gone away until we received a letter from CSB solicitors (same address as UCS) advising they would be beginning court proceedings against my girlfriend. I told my girlfriend to complain that they haven't responded to any of our requests

 

she called the number of UCS and was accused of being rude to them at the end of the phone.

She wasn't but he wasn't very helpful and said they had responded to the appeal and sent it again.

This was on the 16th January 2020. 

 

On the 29th Jan this was sent after another chase to the solicitors:

 

I have reported UK Parkings ltd to the ICO as they are in beach of GDPR having ignored my SAR request. Further to this I was not notified that my initial appeal had been rejected and therefore cannot further appeal in a standard way and therefore I am awaiting further advice for ways to appeal against this unfair PCN.

 

As it stands should you decide to further contact me in regards to this matter without good cause I shall be seeking legal advice as per my statutory rights.

 

My girlfriend then received another letter from UCS threatening debt collectors (I told her not to worry about this) and so she wrote to the solicitors asking for an update:

 

Email dated 21/02/2020

I am writing to you regarding my email sent on 29th January, below. I still have not received a response from you and I left a voicemail for a solicitor to call me from CSB Solicitors, which I have also not received. I would like to speak to a solicitor regarding this PCN.

 

The solicitor responded via email the following:

Dear Madam,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Following your email below, we reverted this matter back to our Client for their instructions. We will only be able to respond more fully once these are received.

 

At this stage we have no further instructions other than to send out a letter to you dated 16 January 2020.

 

We hope to be able to respond more fully once these are received.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Solicitor

 

UCS are not actually doing anything they should do but nobody we have complained to has actually come back to us so not sure where to take this because I don't have time for court and I would rather just have someone take them to task on these unbelievably poor practices!

 

Any advice on next steps?

 

Thanks

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Could you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky please? This will help us to advise you. In the meantime don't worry too much about this.

 

 

HB

 

[FTMDave]

Yes, please reply to the sticky honeybee posted.

 

As you'll have worked out now, there was no point contacting UCS or their "solicitors" (probably the spotty office junior as you point out they share the same address).  Not only are they fleecers, not only are they totally uninterested in the facts of the case, but even if they were honest brokers (they aren't) they couldn't do anything anyway as it's not their "debt".  The dispute is with the private parking company.

 

Who the hell advised your girlfriend to send a SAR to UCS, a totally uninterested third party in the case?

 

Could you please upload a PDF of correspondence with the private parking company (all the rest is just toilet paper) suitably redacted of your girlfriend's details, the PCN number, etc.

 

So UCS are not actually doing anything

 

Of course not, it's not their debt.  They can't do anything.  More importantly, the PPC aren't doing anything.

[dx100uk]

they have done court 0 times

shame you responded to them.

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Now, that is the vital info the OP needs!

[ericsbrother]

UCS and the solicitors  are just paid to scare you into paying, they know nothing about this matter and cant influence anthing so ignore them and stop all communiaction with them and block their email address and set any messages to bounce back if possible

 

In future you do not email,anyone, letters only from this point forward and do nothing until tey show their hand. They may send a LBA so if they do yu tell us when it arrives but until then you sit on your hands.

there is no quick fix, just the long game

[pep21]

We are a bit stuck with what to do

 

my girlfriend now wants to pay

but I am not going to pay until we have some sort of justice in this instance.

 

I am of the belief that I should be speaking with the debt collectors and telling them to refrain from all forms of contact.

 

The appeal was never formally rejected despite the company saying they sent a response (never received).

 

Here is also the initial correspondence between my girlfriend and the parking company noting they have placed the account on hold. It was only when my girlfriend chased after first UCS letter did they give more information and send the rejection:

 

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 at 16:56, > wrote:

 

30/08/19

 

Castle Car Park

Jennings Yard

Windsor

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

PCN number:.....

Vehicle registration number: K

 

You issued me with a parking ticket on 27/08/19 but I believe it was unfairly issued. 

 

I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

 

 • Circumstances out of my control. 

I returned to the car just as the parking attendant was about to process the ticket but he continued with the process in front of me and issued my ticket. I overstayed by 10 minutes due to the time it took to pay my bill at the Pizza Express Restaurant in Windsor and then queuing for the toilet for my children. The manager at Pizza Express would be able to support this and tried to help me rush things along as I told him the situation. 

 

• The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable

The amount you have charged is not based upon any commercially justifiable loss to your company or the landowner.

In my case, the £60 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of less than £4.50 (the hourly rate) when I only overstayed by 10 minutes. 

 

 If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter. 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

From: PaymyPCN Appeals Manager <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2019 4:56:22 PM
To: >
Subject: Re: PCN Number: ….. 

 

Dear 

 

Thank you for your recent email, the contents of which have been noted. 

 

Your account has now been placed on hold to consider your appeal. Once we have received the outcome of your appeal we will contact you in due course.

Please Be Advised: If you do not hear from us within 14 days of the lodging of your appeal, do not assume your notice has been cancelled, please make contact with us during & after this time to be updated the status of your appeal.

 

Kind Regards,

S Lewis

 

For and on behalf of PCN Parking Solutions

 

 

[dx100uk]

not sure where you are getting the idea from that you must pay

nor

that you need to talk to any powerless DCA

 

they are NOT BAILIFFS

and have 

ZERO legal powers on ANY DEBT no matter who it originated with.

[pep21]

Thanks dx100uk. I thought I had redacted everything I needed to.

 

So what you are saying is to do nothing and then wait to go to court if they ever take us to court?

[FTMDave]

Before taking someone to court they have to send a Letter Before Action.  Come back here if this ever turns up.  Anything before is just hot air and should be ignored.  If you continue writing to them it will just encourage them to think you'll cough up.

 

Reread post 4!

[dx100uk]

these muppets have never done court.. read whats been posted already instead of scary stories elsewhere

 

can you do this too please:

 

Hi.

 

Could you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky please? This will help us to advise you. In the meantime don't worry too much about this.

 

 

HB

 

[pep21]

Thanks everyone.

 

in response to the sticky 

 

1. Date of infringement: 27/08/2019

 

2. Appeal was made and rejected. Rejection letter is dated 13th September but was not actually received or seen by my girlfriend via email until 29th January. They have maintained they sent the email on the 13th however my girlfriend did not receive this in her email box. The rejection letter is attached below. Then because she didn't get it she couldn't appeal so had to appeal another way by writing to the IAS direct. They have asked for more information which my girlfriend has sent.

 

3. There was no NTK

 

4. The appeals information was given in the rejection letter attached but as stated the rejection was not received until January 29th following my girlfriend following up direct with the Parking company.

 

5. The parking company is UK Parking ltd.

 

6. The car park is: Castle Car Park, Jennings Yard, River Street, Windsor, Berkshire, SL4 1QT

 

 

The appeal is here as I can't upload the file at the moment. I will upload as soon as I can.

 

PCN Parking Solutions for UK Parking Limited PO BOX 5419 Hove BN52 9AN
Dear 
Parking Charge Notice Number: 263118424

Vehicle Registration Number:

Location: Castle Car Park, Jennings Yard, River Street, Windsor, Berkshire, SL4 1QT

Issue Date: 27/08/2019

Parking Event: Parking After The Expired Time On The P&d Ticket

Total Due: £60.00

Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice ('PCN') which has been carefully considered, however,
on this occasion,the appeal has been rejected for the reason(s) detailed below.
Your vehicle was observed as displaying a time-expired Pay and Display ticket. Please note that you can visit our website;
www.paymypcn.net whereby you can review photographs of this parking event. You will note from these images that your ticket
expired at 19:19. In line with the [ATA] Code of Practice, the Parking Attendant allowed a reasonable grace period. As the
driver failed to return to the vehicle within this time period, a Parking Charge Notice ("PCN") was issued at 19:30.

Loss is not relevant as the claim is not for breach of contract. The contractual terms make it clear that any driver parking
in this area agrees to pay the charge. The amount claimed, is, in effect, the price the motorist has agreed to pay for
stopping where the Operator does not want them to and is a core contractual price term. Once the driver has entered an
agreement with the Operator to pay the charge, the Operator does not have to subsequently show that the charge is the amount
that they/the landowner has lost. With respect to the charge being an unfair contractual term, we would refer you to Beavis v
Parking Eye [UKSC] 2015/0116 where this point was dealt with in detail by the Law Lords.

Whilst we note the contents of your appeal, these amount to mitigation and are not sufficient to discharge your liability.
The onus is on the motorist to ensure that a valid Pay and Display ticket is on display at all times.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and you now have two options (you cannot do both):
You can pay the total amount due of £60.00 within 14 days (see reverse of letter for payment options).
or you can appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS) if you believe this decision is incorrect
In order to appeal the IAS will need your PCN number, vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued.
The IAS (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have
complied with our internal appeals procedure, you may use and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service
providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Should you decide to appeal to the IAS and your appeal is subsequently rejected, the option to pay a discounted
amount will no longer be available and the full amount of the PCN will become due, payment should be made to the
Operator within 14 days from the date of the IAS rejection notification.
If you do not make payment, the outstanding PCN will be passed to our appointed debt collection agency for further action and all costs associated with this process will be added to the amount outstanding.
 

[pep21]

And here are all documents to date inc the demand letter sent from UCS after we were unable to reply.

 

docs1.pdf

[ericsbrother]

more bog paper.

11 minute overstay

as the grace period is a minimum of 10 minutes that will be " de minimis" in most courts.

 

now tell us about the land

is it near to you and if so get down there and take some pictures

of the entrance to the land from the public highway 

 

any signs there. If there are no signs at the entrance you are home and dry already.

 

Now also take pictures of

the signs in the car aprk

the ticket machine

any associated blurb with the machine.

 

This is your actual contract

if the wording is not identical to the signs then the signs are worthless to the parking co.

 

Next measure the bays, width being more important than length.

 

The parking co are members of the IPC

ny appeal to the IAS will be rejected because they dont actually rely on the law of the land to make their determinations

just the say so of the IPC owners 

 

their mantra will be there were signs so they are the end of the matter never mind the content or legality of those signs.

 

There is no quick fix to this though, they cant make money by being honest

hence their membership of the IPC and the use of harassment and lies to get you to pay up and this includes the content of their rejection letter

 

just had a look at googlespy and apart from being 3 car parks in that location

the one I identify as being the one you used has a sign at the entrance that contains NO conditions for parking

 

so you weren't offered a contract with specific terms but an "invitation to treat" at best.

That means you aren't obliged to then consider anything else the other signs offer

and that means you dont even have to pay if you don't want to.

As you did pay then the ticket machine blurb is vital info for us so we can see what it is you agreed to.

 

Now do not appeal to the IAS and don't write to the parking co again until we have seen the terms on the machine.

if there is nothing about paying them £60 a minure after the prescribed time then you dont have to pay them .

Let them waste their money chasing you for the moment

 

if you still have the ticket they slapped on the car them please post that up with your vehicle details and the ticket number concealed,

 

I want to see what it is they are claiming is the location and the breach, both should be on that ticket or they lose regardless of anything else ( and we already know they are on shaky ground)

[dx100uk]

all documents from this thread are now redacted PROPERLY and in one file in the OP's last post above inc the windscreen ticket

[lookinforinfo]

YOU appeared to be saying on your first post that your g/f arrived back at the car before the 10 minutes grace period had elapsed. If this was the case, had she driven off before he finished writing, the PCN could not have been issued. Also because she was back within the 10 minute grace period, the ticket should not have been even started before her arrival and so there should have been no ticket issued and as such  they have breached GDPR by asking the DVLA for her details.

[pep21]

She arrived whilst the attendant was in the process of writing the ticket which was within the grace period and could have got in the car and left.

 

However she discussed with the attendant what he was doing and what a ridiculous issuing it was and this meant the ticket was actually issued one minute after a ten minute grace period despite my gf having arrived back within the period. 

[dx100uk]

the grace period is a minimum of 10 mins, there is no stated max..

 

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

Not only that DX100 but the  attendant had no business beginning to issue the ticket before the grace period was up. Not only that, but once she arrived before the end of even of the rest period, he should have torn up the PCN. Basically this is a breach of GDPR. Too much to hope that he was photographed during this charade?

 

[brassnecked]

If they were to try court there is a robust defence there around the Grace Period anyway, along with the potential for reporting GDPR Breach.

[ericsbrother]

so now you have one stick to beat them with when the time comes so in the meanwhile get the other info requested.

Tell GF to stop worrying as nothing bad has happened yet and it wont if you help u to help you

[pep21]

thanks dx100uk for the redactions. I would still be doing that now.

We live about 2 hours away from Windsor.

 

What I am taking is that if this ends up in court I can argue that they shouldn't have issued the ticket as my gf was back less than 10 minutes after the expiry.

 

I can also argue that they have no contract with us because they don't have signs (I can not verify this, nor can my gf remember).

 

There is nothing on the ticket to suggest parking after the time would incur costs of £60 per minute after any grace period.

It seems to me that should they decide to pursue my gf they have little room for manoeuvre. 

 

thanks for all the advice and in the meantime I will just sit and wait for the next debt collectors letter and ignore that too?

[dx100uk]

you can ignore everything until or unless you get a letter of claim from one of the paperwork only fake/tame solicitors.

 

in the meantime

get reading all the pcn threads here

you'll soon get the idea.