Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • March 23: As the coronavirus crisis escalates, the UK is placed into lockdown with strict limitations on travel. The Government guidelines state: “You should not be visiting family members who do not live in your home.” The prime minister tells the UK public they "must stay at home". People are warned not to meet friends or family members they do not live with. Those with symptoms had already been told to self-isolate     Friday 27 March: Downing Street On the day Cummings ran out of No 10, his wife, Mary Wakefield, appears to have been already ill, according to her Spectator article about the experience, in which she says: “My husband did rush home to look after me.”   Both Boris Johnson and Health Secretary Matt Hancock test positive for coronavirus, while chief medical officer Chris Whitty says he has symptoms of the disease and is self-isolating.   Mr Cummings said: "I suddenly got a call from my wife who was looking after our four-year-old child. She told me she suddenly felt badly ill." He went home and after a couple of hours his wife felt better and he returned to work. "There were many critical things at work and she asked me to return [to work] in the afternoon and I did." He then "drove up to Durham that night arriving at roughly midnight" with his family.     In spectator articles on 24th and 25th April * Wakefield (wife) wrote in the spectator that Cummings said “I feel weird” and collapsed 24 hours after he came home to look after her * She went on to explain that for the next 10 days “Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for ten days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs.” * Cummings wrote that “at the end of March and for the first two weeks of April I was ill, so we were both shut in together.” * The following days, by Wakefield’s account, were a mixture of family idyll and health nightmare, as she made a “palace out of polystyrene packaging” with their son … even as Cummings’s breathing got so bad that she feared he should be in hospital. But 10 days after her husband first fell ill, she said, he began to feel better – just as Boris Johnson went into hospital. That would place the improvement in his condition around Sunday 5 April,     Sat March 28th Is apparently the day Cummings said “I feel weird” and collapsed 24 hours after he came home to look after her His wife went on to explain that for the next 10 days “Dom couldn’t get out of bed. Day in, day out for ten days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs.” Cummings wrote that “at the end of March and for the first two weeks of April I was ill, so we were both shut in together.” 10 days from March 28th – would take us to the 7th April.   Mon March 30: Downing Street confirms Mr Cummings is suffering from coronavirus symptoms and is self-isolating.   Tuesday 31 March/1st April: Durham The police have said that on 31 March they were “made aware of reports” of Cummings’s presence in the area and had then contacted the family to “reiterate the appropriate advice around essential travel”.   2 April: During the night, Mr Cummings' four-year-old son "threw up and had a bad fever". Following medical advice, an ambulance took the child to hospital. He was accompanied by Mr Cummings' wife   3 April: Mr Cummings' son spent the night in hospital and woke up the next day having "recovered". He was tested for coronavirus and his mother, who was with him at the hospital, was told "they should return home". According to Mr Cummings, there were no taxis so he "drove to the hospital, picked him up and returned home". He said he "did not leave the car or have any contact with anybody on this short trip".   Sunday 5 April: The ‘Abba’ sighting (despite claims of ten days where he couldn’t get up with a high fever) Cummings alledgedly seen in Garden with AbbA blaring But 10 days after her husband first fell ill, she said, he began to feel better – just as Boris Johnson went into hospital. Which would place the improvement in his condition around Sunday 5 April, … Although the claimed 10 days after the 28th – the earliest point at which Cummings was said to have been symptomatic – would be the 7 April. The Guardian approaches Downing Street about the story, only to be told by a spokesman: “It will be a no comment on that one.” Mr Cummings said "after I started to recover, one day in the second week, I tried to walk outside the house". He confirmed he, his wife and his son went for a walk into woods owned by his father and it was at this point he was seen by passers-by but his family "had no interaction with them". The exact date is not clear but his second week isolating in Durham would have between 4-11th   6 April: At some point in the week leading up to this date, Mr Cummings discussed his decision to travel to Durham with the prime minister. "When we were both sick and in bed," he said, "I mentioned to him what I had done. Unsurprisingly given the condition we were in, neither of us remember the conversation in any detail."   Fri April 10: Number 10 is again contacted for comment regarding Mr Cumming’s trip by the Guardian. Instead of defending the journey, officials declined to comment.   Fri 10th/Sat 11th April: The 14-day period of Cummings’s isolation would have expired on 10/11th April, assuming it is counted from when Wakefield appears to have first fallen ill on 27 March or when Cummings fell ill 24 hours later.   11 April: Believing he had recovered by this date, albeit "feeling weak and exhausted", Mr Cummings said he "sought expert medical advice". "I explained our family's symptoms and all the timings and asked if it was safe to return to work on Monday or Tuesday, seek childcare and so on. I was told that it was safe and I could return to work"   Sunday 12 April: Barnard Castle Wakefield’s birthday, according to Companies House records – they allegedly made a trip to Barnard Castle, a charming town 30 miles from the Cummings’s family property, described on the English Heritage website as having “fantastic views” and “plenty to do for families on a day out”. That detail emerged in an interview with Robin Lees, a retired chemistry teacher who lives in the town. Lees, who says he has a photographic memory, told the Guardian he was “a bit gobsmacked” to see Cummings, and then was so incensed that he made a note of the family car’s numberplate and checked it online when he got home. Cummings acknowledges he drove to Barnard Castle, 30 miles from his parents' home in Durham, with his wife and child. He explained this episode as needing to test his driving was fine before making the long drive back to London. He said he'd been having problems with his vision   Tuesday 14 April: London The Guardian asked Wakefield to confirm whether the family had been in London throughout the lockdown period, but received no reply. Cummings was photographed back in Downing Street on 14 April   Sunday 19 April: ‘bluebell’ woods - Cummings and Wakefield in Houghall woods? Could Cummings have then gone back to the north-east from London? Downing Street is emphatic that he did not. The denial came after another witness claimed to the Guardian and Sunday Mirror that they had seen Cummings and Wakefield on a country walk in Houghall Woods, a beauty spot near his parents’ property in Durham. According to this account, Cummings said: “Aren’t the bluebells lovely?” Cummings says he did not return to Durham   Monday 20 April Cummings seen in London again   May 23: Downing Street statement: “Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.” The statement said: “At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. “His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally.” Speaking outside his home, Mr Cummings reiterated: “I behaved reasonably and legally”. When a reporter suggested to him that his actions did not look good, he replied: “Who cares about good looks? “It’s a question of doing the right thing. It’s not about what you guys think.” Later at the daily Downing Street briefing, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said Mr Cummings had the PM’s “full support” and that Mr Johnson “knew that he was unwell and that he was in lockdown”. Mr Shapps said it had always been permissible for families to travel to be closer to their relatives as long as they “go to that location and stay in that location”. Meanwhile, deputy chief medical officer for England, Dr Jenny Harries, said that travelling during lockdown was permissible if “there was an extreme risk to life”, with a “safeguarding clause” attached to all advice to prevent vulnerable people being stuck at home with no support.   Health Secretary Matt Hancock and Chancellor of the Exchequer Rishi Sunak have tweeted their support for Mr Cummings.   Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said on Monday morning that Mr Cummings had "set out absolutely clearly and absolutely categorically he didn't break the rules and didn't break the law". The attorney general, Suella Braverman, tweet on Saturday in which she quoted the full text of the No 10 statement on Boris Johnson’s chief aide in which the prime minister said he had behaved “responsibly and legally”.   (Disgraceful) Boris Johnson said at the weekend Cummings acted “responsibly and legally and with integrity”   “The PM’s risible defence of Cummings is an insult to all those who have made such sacrifices to ensure the safety of others,” said Johne Inge, the bishop of Worcester, on Twitter.   “What planet are they on?” asked a front page headline in the Daily Mail, an influential right-wing paper usually supportive of Johnson.   https://descrier.co.uk/politics/dominic-cummings-and-wife-tried-to-cover-up-lockdown-breach-in-articles-for-the-spectator/   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/dominic-cummings-timeline-what-we-know-about-his-movements   https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/timeline-the-coronavirus-lockdown-and-dominic-cummings-trip-to-durham/   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52784290   https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/25/attorney-general-faces-calls-to-resign-defends-dominic-cummings-suella-braverman   https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-cummings/what-planet-are-they-on-no-respite-for-johnson-and-aide-idUKKBN2310UE   https://cyprus-mail.com/2020/05/25/what-plant-are-they-on-press-slams-johnson-and-cummings/
    • simply tell them on the phone writing only sorry as I might want to escalate this to the fos or court. sorry but no speaky..speaky   you night find this interesting?   https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jun/09/life-insurance-misselling-aviva-hamilton-life   dx
    • I've had a few missed calls and then text from RBS wanting to talk about the letter I sent, two posts up.    Am I best to wait for them to write? Didn't really want to get into a discussion with them about it ideally!
    • I haven’t even looked.  I doubt some PR bod would have been in the loop.
    • Gove will be rubbing his little hands together in glee. He been quite careful in his limited wording in 'supporting demonic. but he poo'd his own pot a bit with that priority preferential test   No confidence vote (in PM not party).
  • Our picks

    • View this quiz Employment status during COVID-19
      What do you do if you’ve been told not to come to work due to the current crisis.  Watch the video here or on the Youth Consumer Service Instagram page.

      Did you learn anything? Do the quiz
       
       
      Submitter BankFodder Type One Right Answer Time 5 minutes Total Questions 8 Category The Youth Consumer Service Submitted 15/05/20  
      • 0 replies
    • One Parking Solutions - Damning judgement. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/421148-one-parking-solutions-damning-judgement/
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 63 replies
    • View this quiz Coping with extreme hardship
      Life can be tough when you're entering the world of work and in the present virus crisis, things are even more difficult.

      Watch the video below or go to the Youth Consumer Service Instagram page . Afterwards, you can see if you've understood the points which are being made by taking the quiz.
       
       
      Submitter BankFodder Type One Right Answer Time 5 minutes Total Questions 8 Category The Youth Consumer Service Submitted 15/05/20  
      • 1 reply
    • View this quiz: Pre-pay meters
      An explanation of how some gas and electric companies offer emergency quarantine support.

       
      Watch the video here – or go to the Youth Consumer Service Instagram page and watch it there. Then come back here and do the quiz
       
       
      Submitter BankFodder Type One Right Answer Time 5 minutes Total Questions 6 Category The Youth Consumer Service Submitted 15/05/20  
      • 1 reply
2ltr16valve

Cooker replaced by Hotpoint claims department. Substantially Different to old model *** Resolved***

Recommended Posts

Hi all 

 

need some advice please 

 

a few month ago our fan oven door outside glass broke while no one was home. The cooker was a HUD61PS duel fuel model. 
hotpoint agreed to repair free of charge and ended up picking the old cooker up and changing it for what we were told was a ‘like for like’ exchange. I specifically asked if there were any changes to the newer build and was told no just built newer. 
 

on using the cooker we noticed that the fan in the fan oven turns off once the oven reaches temperature. So the fan oven is only a part time fan oven ! Hotpoint tell me this is to make the energy rating better. 
Yet food has to be cooked for longer at a higher temperature to ensure it is cooked fully !!! 
e.g potato waffles - 12/15 mins usually at 200°

this oven they take at least 20 mins at 220° and still usually come out soggy ! 
a pie only come out half browned - keep in mind it’s meant to be a fan oven ! 
 

hotpoint are saying they will send an engineer out to see if it’s operating as intended .... but my argument is. It’s not the same oven we had or want ! We would never buy a fan oven that functioned like this. 
Or we can have a full refund for £389 which is curry’s current selling price .....  no chance finding a decent oven for that price. 
 

 

can we make hotpoint out us back in the position we was in prior e.g. with a cooker with a fan oven that works fully as a fan oven ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I remember this story of yours. I'm going to merge this thread with your old one.

 

Actually, I was wrong. It wasn't you it was someone else

 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who was the supplier of the original oven and when was it purchased?

If Hotpoint said that they are going to provide "like for like" then I would say that that doesn't necessarily mean that they going to replace it with the exact model if, for instance, the broken model is no longer sold. I would say that it would mean that they would replace it with the nearest equivalent.

How long have you had the replacement?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi again :) 

 

the original supplier was AO but was out of warranty with them so hotpoint took it up. 
 

the oven was replaced around January time, with us notifying them we was not happy fairly shortly after delivery. 

hotpoint said the exact same model, which was delivered HUD61PS - but is only the same on model number. (Which I think is naughty as they changed a major function) 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well firstly you haven't addressed my question as to when it was purchased.

Secondly, is there another model which has the same functions that you are looking for?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

appologies missed those bits Delivered 17/02/2017

 

We haven’t looked as yet to be honest, I’m sure there must be within their group 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will please have a look and then come back here with some information.

Also I have to say that I'm rather surprised that you've been here since 2008 and yet you still seem to be fixated on the manufacturer's warranty rather than your statutory rights.

 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only model we can find from their group of companies which seems to work the way our last one did is this

 

https://ao.com/product/ch60dhwfs-cannon-by-hotpoint-harrogate-dual-fuel-cooker-white-26506-12.aspx?cmredirectionvalue=CH60DHwfs

 

The reason ive not considered the warrenty with ao and taking action in that regard is because hotpoint agreed to fix free of charge with parts free of charge. They then decided to change the cooker like for like - with myself personally asking if there were any changes and I was told 'No just a newer build'.

 

The item was delivered and we noticed that the main fan oven operates differently, as in the fan does not operate once the oven is up to temperature. Our old oven used to run all the time and cooked perfectly. The replacement does not cook evenly and takes longer to cook, as well as requiring a higher temperature.

 

Hotpoint sent an engineer out on 20/02/2020 so states that the cooker is operating as designed so they are now stating they will not replace a cooker that is working as they designed.

 

I am now looking at the prospect of issuing a small claim online as ,1) This cooker is substantially different to our previous model for which we were not advised.

 

Hotpoint record all calls which they tell you on every telephone call they make to you, so I intend to request these phone calls to support a claim if I make one.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I hope that you request a call recordings is successful – but I'm a bit surprised that you need them because I would have thought that you would by now have read our customer services guide and you would have your own recordings.

Just because a company says that it records your calls, doesn't mean that it does – and also it says nothing about the retention policy. They may have a retention policy of only a couple of months or so. There could be other more sinister reasons why they don't give them to you.
 

So you don't record your calls….  🙄

I'm not quite sure what you're going to sue them for. You had a cooker which you have used since the beginning of 2017 – and that means that you had it for 2 1/2 years and used it successfully before the door broke.

They supplied you with a new cooker – which you are not entirely happy with because of the way the thermostat works – and now you are considering suing the supplier for the breaking of the door a few months ago.

If I were advising them, I would tell them to offer a cash settlement which included a reduction for 2 1/2 years of use against the full price of a brand-new cooker which you might reasonably expect to last seven or eight years.

I think if you had tackled the problem head-on when the door first broke and succeeded in pushing for a replacement door, then you would probably have succeeded – assuming that those doors were still available – but you would still be left with a cooker 2 1/2 years into its expected lifespan.

Instead, they supplied you with a new cooker which although work slightly differently, basically means that they have given you a free upgrade which is worth about 30% of the value of new cooker.

I'm sorry to say but I think you did quite well – and because you left it so long, it won't be possible to get your door reinstated because I suppose the cooker is long gone.

If you can get the recordings which say that you are going to receive "like for like" then that might be helpful, but it seems to me that what they given you as a gesture of goodwill – and you've accepted it and it may well be that you have forfeited any further rights as a result.

I suspect that you might come off the loser in this battle


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


 

I think you misunderstood what I’ve written. 
 

the cooker door was going to be replaced and we were happy wit that. Hotpoint decided not to do this and changed the cooker with what we were told was exactly the same. No changes. 
 

if you google HUD61PS not a real fan oven you will see lots of other customers with the same issues. The oven does not cook correctly ! 
someone please tell me what cooking instructions we follow ? Fan oven or conventional? This oven is neither .... 

 

we only accepted their ‘gesture of goodwill’ because we were told it was exactly the same. This is substantially different and not a genuine fan oven 

Edited by 2ltr16valve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes your right, maybe I have misunderstood.

In that case start off by sending an SAR and hopefully you will be able to get the call recordings.

However, as you no longer have the old cooker – so it can't be repaired, you may still be faced with the possibility of having a reduced settlement because of your 2 1/2 years of use. I don't think that anyone was obliged to replace your cooker like for like. I think that was a gesture of goodwill – and probably of convenience on their part – and I think that if it had become an issue at the time then they could eventually have gotten away with settling for a sum of money less the reduction.

Get the recordings and then we'll see what happens


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thank you for replying again. 

 

I specifically asked if anything had been changed or modified on the cooker, being customers have had  the door glass breaking a lot and was told no changes. 
 

I will get a sar in Monday morning. 
 

all we want is a fan oven that works 100% of the time not for a small proportion of the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it will help you to identify specific models which might suit your requirements – not only including Hotpoint – but other manufacturers as well. I think you will need to get some idea of value

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you mean value to replace with a model that functions as our previous model ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you bring a claim in any court, you almost always have to bring for £value. In other words it is extremely difficult – and certainly not possible in this case – simply to get an order from the court forcing them to carry out their promise.

First of all, who are you going to sue? Are you going to sue the supplier? I think you may not be able to any more because it seems to me that you have taken a different route to sort out the problem and as a result of that, the supplier may well be absolved of their legal responsibility. I think you could get into a very complicated argument about this and you may not win.

Are you going to sue the manufacturer? If you are going to sue them then on what basis? It would have to be contractual. You would have to make out that there was a contract in which you agreed to surrender the rights which you had with the supplier in exchange for a new oven on a "like for like" basis. That might work. However, you then have to sue for the value of your oven. Your oven, as I've already pointed out, in 2019 did not have a new value. It had a reduced value. I suppose a lot depends on what was actually said on the telephone but because you don't have a recording, you have no way of finding out unless you are able to get a copy of their recording which was made about six months ago – so far as I understand it.

If they said that they would replace your old oven with a new oven then maybe you have something to go on. But we need to know what was exactly said. I think you can be pretty certain that they will put up a fight on this. It's a shame that you hadn't read our customer services guide and recorded the call because now we wouldn't have to speculate and we would know better what we were talking about.

 

 


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi bankfodder. 
 

the call discussing the change of cooker was made beginning of January this year. Shortly before the delivery. 
yes I intend to sue the manufacturer as they changed the cooker so as far as I know the contract is now with them. They have not supplied what was agreed. 
I also intend to refer to trading standards as I do not feel this cooker is as described for the whole market and is dangerous. It’s impossible to know how to cook food fully and at what temperature - as I say no food manufacturer give instructions on a part time fan oven. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you believe that the oven is possibly dangerous as you say then you should be looking at this act where it is clear that a defect in a product can include defective instructions 

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/43/section/3

 

And if you are a person who is affected by this then in principle you have a right of action

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/43/section/41

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so the fact the item is sold as a fan oven when it only works as such a % of the time would be covered by this ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is not something I can say. That is an argument that you would have to put before a judge – and of course if you can put the argument to Hotpoint so that they think that maybe it's better simply to sort it out rather than confront you in court, that will be the best way forward.

Read the statue and you will discover exactly what it is you have to show. But generally speaking it's a reasonableness test – like much of law in England and Wales – and you will have to persuade a judge that the safety of the oven is not such as persons generally are entitled to expect blah blah. In this case you are going to have to talk about the oven together with the instructions.

You say that there are lots of other people who are complaining about the same thing. That would tend to suggest that consumers expect rather different and it will be helpful to you if you can get a few of these people over to this thread and to make their contributions. Don't forget though that this is about defective products which means that the consumer expectation is one that has to be taken in the context of risks of personal injury. You say that because of the lack of instructions or  the poor instructions and because of the very different way that the oven operates compared to all other products on the market, that there is a danger that a consumer might not cook something properly with the consequential risk of food poisoning.

If you can show that the way the oven works and the lack of instructions together with the culture of most other ovens results in safety risk beyond what reasonable consumers would expect – then you probably have a winning argument.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SAR is in, they say at the beginning of calls they they ‘Are recorded’ yet on email have said ‘may be recorded’ I smell a rat. We shall see. 
In any case I can show that the model changed from our original item and the replacement from the manuals. It’s just proving they (hotpoint) didn’t tell me that so miss sold/miss described the item. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may find that they have to use this feature because some EU rule for saving polar bears applies and if that is the case you are stuffed as would ever one else be if they expect something that works, you know vacuum cleaners, hair dryers light bulbs, that sort of stuff

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just had a phone call from a manager in the claims department, they are going to refund us £409 plus goodwill so total of £475 by cheque (the extra to buy food while cheque clears and have no cooker!)

 

wouldnt get any better outcome I dont think with going small claims I dont think.

 

Now just to find a cooker which has a proper fan oven !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's a result!

 

don't forget to donate

 

dx

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, DCA;s would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...