Disciplinary help.

[Speedy0]

I've recently had an investigation meeting at work regarding my driving.

 

They are stating that, I've been speeding and braking harshly in the company vehicle. Which is true, at times I have broken the speed limit, probably through lack of concentration at times others to reduce journey time. The vehicles are all tracked.

 

I have atleast 4 years employment with this company and no other previous concerns for conduct. My driving similarly has always remained the same, as bad as that sounds.

 

I wouldn't say I'm a dangerous driver, but sometimes I might accelerate hard and push to 40, in 30 zones. I do also leave it late to brake at times, however not to the extent of an emergency stop.

 

I've had no accidents at work. I have a clean licence, I have one previous verbal warning for speeding on the motorway. Some days I may drive up to 6 hours.

 

During the meeting, I owned up possibly loosing concentration if I have been found to be speeding. That braking late has always been my driving style. 

 

There was a more recent incident bought to light, that I nearly collided with a vechile on the motorway when switching lanes, this is true but was purely down to human error and not me trying to hurt myself or driving dangerously, I explained this thoroughly. I wasn't speeding at the time, which was made as a complaint.

 

They are now going to write to me with an outcome.

 

1. I was wondering what this outcome may possibly be?

 

2. If it is gross misconduct, what is the best possible route to take within the disciplinary meeting?

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Speedy0

[Emmzzi]

Get a copy of the disciplinary policy. Is reckless driving listed as possible GMC?

 

By the time they have done the investigation and decided there is a case to hear, you're pretty much done. The best chance to keep your job, if that's your wish, is to see the error of your ways and take a defensive driving course etc.

 

Not what you have done here, which is to tell us that your reckless driving to totally normal and no cause for concern. Braking late may be a "driving style" but it's not a good one! Justifying yourself and waffling will  get you out the door for sure.

[Speedy0]

27 minutes ago, Emmzzi said:

Get a copy of the disciplinary policy. Is reckless driving listed as possible GMC?

 

By the time they have done the investigation and decided there is a case to hear, you're pretty much done. The best chance to keep your job, if that's your wish, is to see the error of your ways and take a defensive driving course etc.

 

Not what you have done here, which is to tell us that your reckless driving to totally normal and no cause for concern. Braking late may be a "driving style" but it's not a good one! Justifying yourself and waffling will  get you out the door for sure.

 

I asked for a copy of the policy, but they declined to supply one and stated they would send it through the post.

 

Yea I hear you, I do see the error of my ways,  although it's never been a concern before. Plenty of people have speeding tickets in the company and they couldn't give a hoot...

 

I guess maybe the company pushing me to arrive at destinations faster has impacted my driving but lately, its probably my own fault tbh.

 

I was concerned about what to say in the investigation meeting and unsure of how much information to give tbh. As they didn't present any evidence I'm sure they will in the post? I'm sure at times everyone is guilty of going over the speed limit, or is that just me?

 

For me keeping the job would be the best outcome short term. However, although I know my driving maybe a concern, the fact they've never addressed it is also partly their responsibility surely they should've given me more of a speaking to, rather than to just leave me... doesn't that reflect badly on them as a company? Leaving me to drive that way for several years?

 

So your saying that I'm pretty much done for?

Edited February 8, 2020 by Speedy0

[Emmzzi]

Given your response to me is still "it's no big deal and everyone does it", I'd say so...

[Speedy0]

Emmzzi,

 

I understand your position on my attitude, sometimes the culture of a company, also influences how you act within it.

 

So you believe this is gross misconduct and there's no way out? Your stating it may be wise to suggest me taking a safe driving course.

 

I have another meeting coming up, after they discover if there is a case to answer which there obviously is, they haven't suspended me, for what that is worth, but it's possible they will sack me, they probably will tbh.

 

As I point out, I'm generally a good employee, this is on my one aspect of my employment, it's also not necessary that I do drive a company vehicle tbh.

[Emmzzi]

It’s only gross misconduct if the policy says it is. That’s why it’s vital to have a copy before any disciplinary. 

[Speedy0]

11 hours ago, Emmzzi said:

It’s only gross misconduct if the policy says it is. That’s why it’s vital to have a copy before any disciplinary. 

 

Yea although, I can't force them to supply me with one... they don't keep them available to staff. I remember having the policy, about two years ago and it didn't mention anything on your driving ability.

 

Tbh they just give out policies when it suites them.

 

Surely they have to demonstrate equality of treatment, half the workforce would be sacked if that was the case? How would they justify allowing others to have had two speeding tickets, that demonstrates they are likely to have been speeding on multiple occasions, however having not punished them or taken action?

 

Breaking the speed limit, admittedly is breaking the law however it does necessarily mean it's dangerous or careless, somtimes, you may need to speed up to overtake and other times you may just go over the speed limit not realising. That can often happen when your driving for 6 hours, well for me anyhow concentration can become an issue.

 

Going in and saying sorry for speeding, I'm a terrible driver before seeing clear evidence imo, is not a good way to defend myself. There were only allegations presented at the investigation and not any evidence.

 

Does anybody else have any useful information on how I should defend myself?

Edited February 9, 2020 by Speedy0

[Emmzzi]

If you are sure your views are correct, you could always check them with a traffic officer before going in?

[Speedy0]

2 minutes ago, Emmzzi said:

If you are sure your views are correct, you could always check them with a traffic officer before going in?

 

Really not helping the situation, I understand that speeding is breaking the law. I understand that I've done wrong and need to improve.

 

What I'm really after, is advice to help defend myself, to possibly keep my job or reduce the impact on my reputation, not an ass whooping every other post? I'm not a delinquent, I'm just stating the facts and all you are saying to me is I'm daft and should say sorry. Of course I'm going to say sorry and acknowledge my mistakes when the facts are presented.

 

 

Why have the company left it so long to highlight my driving, why now? It's because they have a motive. Why no training or previous ban when first flagged up? Why not a more aggressive approach on their behalf? Why why why?

 

 

Regards.

[Emmzzi]

Perhaps you could be as aggressive in pursuit of the policy as you are being with me? I get that you don’t think it’s fair, but that’s not the same as illegal. 
 

To improve the quality of the advice, we need the wording of the policy.

[Speedy0]

1 hour ago, Emmzzi said:

Perhaps you could be as aggressive in pursuit of the policy as you are being with me? I get that you don’t think it’s fair, but that’s not the same as illegal. 
 

To improve the quality of the advice, we need the wording of the policy.

 

Ok, once they have written to me with an outcome, I'll sort further advice on here.

[hightail]

2 hours ago, Speedy0 said:

Why have the company left it so long to highlight my driving, why now?

Maybe they've had a complaint which prompted them to check the tracking history.  Do you drive a vehicle which identifies the company?

[Speedy0]

1 hour ago, hightail said:

Maybe they've had a complaint which prompted them to check the tracking history.  Do you drive a vehicle which identifies the company?

Yea as there was an incident on the motorway, however this was just somthing which was human error, with me not spotting a car properly when switching lanes. Nobody was hurt, they alluded to this in the meeting.

 

They have said that, however they didn't detail that within the letter. Just the above, I guess I won't know for sure until the disciplinary letter arrives.

 

[hightail]

You do seem dogged by bad luck behind the wheel.

[Speedy0]

 

On 09/02/2020 at 09:31, Emmzzi said:

Perhaps you could be as aggressive in pursuit of the policy as you are being with me? I get that you don’t think it’s fair, but that’s not the same as illegal. 
 

To improve the quality of the advice, we need the wording of the policy.

 

Ok obtained policies,

 

The policy basically says, drivers must drive safely and correct, abiding by the law..... 

 

Breaches may be subject to disciplinary action.

 

The rest of the policy is aimed at non-

relevant matters, such as having regular supervisions about driving, which obviously never occur. Probably have one normal supervison a year, that's it, never about driving though.

 

Literally, half of the stuff on here, is never done by management. Which tbh, demonstrates their failings aswell, I know I'm the guilty party, legally if I've broken the law, however surely they also have a duty of care to me? To have been more aggressive in their pursuit of managing my driving? If I am going over the speed limit at times.

 

[Emmzzi]

Is that a driving policy or a disciplinary policy? It’s the disciplinary you need.

 

Criticising the very people who decide your fate is shooting yourself in the foot. I really wouldn’t.

 

Does the policy give examples of misconduct versus gross misconduct? Often there is a list of examples for each. I’m trying to work out if you can argue for a simple misconduct for a first offence... 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Emmzzi

[Speedy0]

2 minutes ago, Emmzzi said:

Criticising the very people who decide your fate is shooting yourself in the foot. I really wouldn’t.

 

Does the policy give examples of misconduct versus gross misconduct? Often there is a list of examples for each. I’m trying to work out if you can argue for a simple misconduct for a first offence... 

 

 

 

I do appreciate your help, I'm just frustrated.

 

There is no further information in the driver policy, related to driver conduct.

 

In the disciplinary policy:

 

Warranting disciplinary action:

Unsatisfactory performance, Improper behaviour, Misconduct.

 

Forms of disciplinary,  depending on the severity and frequency: Verbal warnings, One or more written warnings, Dismissal.
 

The employee may be dismissed if:

 

They've already had a final warning and recommit.

 

The act is serious or gross misconduct

 

 The offence means continued employment cannot occur.

 

 

[Emmzzi]

There’s hope of a warning, then, because the policy is a bit vague. 
 

you probably need it

- to be a one off

- to not have threatened life or property

 

have a think about how you’d describe that in your meeting.

[Sidewinder]

Late to the party and all that, but be aware that trackers don't just record geographical position. They also include accelerometers and all sorts of data which when analysed will assess braking frequency and severity, yaw and pitch, together with speed and compliance to limits. The pressure to complete jobs whilst it might be a reason, is not justification for poor driving or breaking the law. Recognising that your driving style and lack of awareness of speed limits, together with a firm commitment to undertake driving assessment, more regular scrutiny and proving in the next few weeks will be the way to minimise any possible sanction

 

I work in an environment where such issues are the norm as a responsible employer. Making excuses rarely endears the employee to the boss. An absolute willingness to change may appeal to a certain sense of fairness depending on the history

[Speedy0]

16 minutes ago, Sidewinder said:

Late to the party and all that, but be aware that trackers don't just record geographical position. They also include accelerometers and all sorts of data which when analysed will assess braking frequency and severity, yaw and pitch, together with speed and compliance to limits. The pressure to complete jobs whilst it might be a reason, is not justification for poor driving or breaking the law. Recognising that your driving style and lack of awareness of speed limits, together with a firm commitment to undertake driving assessment, more regular scrutiny and proving in the next few weeks will be the way to minimise any possible sanction

 

I work in an environment where such issues are the norm as a responsible employer. Making excuses rarely endears the employee to the boss. An absolute willingness to change may appeal to a certain sense of fairness depending on the history

 

Thank you, my conduct is pretty decent in work overall. One formal verbal warning, good client relations, most highly skilled staff memeber, most educated staff member.

 

Thank you, I'll take your advice. I think I'll pay for an advance driving course. In advance of the meeting.

 

 

[ericsbrother]

You also have to consider that they may look at how peopel observing your driving may think about the company as a whole.

remember back in the 1970's Royal mail couldnt get insurance for its vehicles becasue of the appalling driving standards of many of its employees.

So your company may well have a catch-all  bit in your employment and disciplinary codes about not bringning the company into disrepute. commonly this is used to sack people who post disparaging things on social media.

My advice is to show humility, promise to observe the limits etc and dont say anything about the driving standards of anyone else as it isnt relevant and may well cause collateral damage.

[Speedy0]

58 minutes ago, ericsbrother said:

You also have to consider that they may look at how peopel observing your driving may think about the company as a whole.

remember back in the 1970's Royal mail couldnt get insurance for its vehicles becasue of the appalling driving standards of many of its employees.

So your company may well have a catch-all  bit in your employment and disciplinary codes about not bringning the company into disrepute. commonly this is used to sack people who post disparaging things on social media.

My advice is to show humility, promise to observe the limits etc and dont say anything about the driving standards of anyone else as it isnt relevant and may well cause collateral damage.

 

Thank you for your post and tbh, I see the error of my ways. No I won't start discussing others driving in the company, that's their problem, they are aware that there are plenty of awful drivers. 

 

My aim, is to simply reduce the personal damage to my reputation and hopefully continue employment and then relocate later. 

 

I understand my driving could bring the company into disrepute, however the truth be told... I'm not a reckless or dangerous driver, crossing the speed limits sometimes makes me neither of these. 

 

However I will be approaching the meeting with the right attitude,

 

1. Apologising for my actions.

2. Demonstrating a willingness to change and paying for 4 lessons to iron out bad habits.

3. Expressing my excellent client relationships and taking feedback letters.

4. Expressing my length of employment and the lack of others, who posses my skill set.

5. Expressing my enjoyment for working for the company.
 

[ericsbrother]

I would tweak point 4 and emphasise you skills set but dont say a word about anyone else's lack of the same. no-one is indispensible and making this point, even if true can look like a dare to the company.

I knew someone where I worked who spent more time than he should on personal stuff in work time. When pulled up on it he said prove it and they did. if he had said sorry and kept his head down he would have got a ticking off but they dismissed him to make a point about managements right to manage.