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I then get various emails of a very unprofessional manner and one towards the end that sounds a bit like a threat. I would encourage others to be very cautious about this website and if that was a threat (I know where you live, i have your postcode)  It becomes a police matter.  Im sure, it is just a recording of my personal data so I cannot be allowed in the telegram group again. Either way, is there anything ive missed? Emails below in order.   On 22/05/2024 11:31,  wrote: Hi I havent had a response to my last two emails, and Im not getting what's displayed on the site (1-2 bets a day) Please can you process a refund as its not what I was expecting   Thanks   --------- From: info@premiumracingtips.com <info@premiumracingtips.com> Sent: 22 May 2024 12:17 To:  Subject: Re: REFUND   Hi X, Are you still in the private telegram group? Regards, Ash -- On 22/05/2024 12:21, I wrote: Hi Its all still logged in yes as per the day it was set up   thanks ---- From: info@premiumracingtips.com <info@premiumracingtips.com> Sent: 22 May 2024 12:25 To:  Subject: Re: REFUND   Hi X That is fine. When did you send the previous emails? This is Marc speaking here I run the service. So on the 1-2 bets per day, some days there are no selections because there is no value or information. It is impossible to make profit long term betting every single day. Did you get on Macduff 33/1 for the Derby? Regards, Marc ----- From: X Sent: 22 May 2024 12:41 To: info@premiumracingtips.com <info@premiumracingtips.com> Subject: Re: REFUND   Hi Marc, I sent a mail on the 16th initially then Monday this week to follow up.   Yes, Got a Derby tip through but nothing else in a week   Ive based this on needing £50 profit required to break even, so expecting 1-2 bets a day (sorry) , £2 average bet profit needed to make a small profit after the subscription fee, as a test then move up as confidence grows   I probably need a larger starting bank to benefit from this properly.   Thanks X ======================================== Then, no further correspondence received until almost a month later: ====================================== 17/06/2024 Good afternoon,   Further to my correspondence below I am notifying you of court proceedings.   If I do not receive a satisfactory response from you within 14 days of the date of this letter, I intend to issue proceedings against you in the county court without further notice. Court fees will be added to the final invoice adding £215 minimum to the refunded amount and this will affect your ability to get credit.   I refer you to the Practice Direction on pre-action conduct under the Civil Procedure Rules, and in particular to paragraph 13-16 which sets out the sanctions the court may impose if you fail to comply with the Practice Direction. I look forward to your acknowledgement. Yours faithfully, X   ============== NOW i get a response! =============   Tuesday 18th/06 Evening X Firstly, I know the law (family member is a QC) so this legal jargon does not work with me. Secondly, you were already processed a pro rata refund on the 5th of June 2024. Sometimes this does not appear on the bank statement. The bank can find this with the Acquirer Reference Numbers (ARN) - 88888888888888888 Once the bank have confirmed this I would personally like an apology for the time you have wasted and the serious accusation. Regards, Marc =================================================== I was going to drop it at this point, throw it in my spam folder as a mistake in my judgement, lessons learned to do due diligence on such a company next time, however this then got my back up when a pestering follow up arrived: ==================================================   From: info@premiumracingtips.com <info@premiumracingtips.com> Sent: 20 June 2024 18:35 To:X Subject: Re: Notice Before action - Court proceedings   Hi X Still waiting on a response and an apology? Regards, Marc --------------------------- On 21/06/2024 09:11, X wrote:  I dont think you read the email correctly, so I will presume you misunderstood.   The only thing Im sorry about is using your service.    To recap:   You didn't respond to emails, of which I had to send multiple to get an ounce of attention You did not confirm any refund or ask to agree on pro-rata reduced refund You do not send out 1-2 tips a day as per your website (trade description act breach) And you seem to forget who is the customer here, you have been dismissive and non responsive and now asking for an apology??   My 14 day notice still stands, I am currently not satisfied with the response and a full refund is still outstanding.   This can be processed easily and without further waste of time. Please process this or send on your final response on this matter (letter of deadlock) so next steps can be taken.     ------------------------------------------------- Sun 23/06/2024 21:18 High importance You replied on Mon 24/06/2024 09:06 Evening X Thanks for another email. Payment has been refunded Acquirer Reference Number (ARN) 8888888888888888888 (altered for security) I am sending this again as you did not acknowledge you have received the refund. This was processed on the 5th of June 2024. Sometimes I have bad actors that join my service and try and defraud my business with similar tactics to what you are attempting. It's pretty embarrassing that you are attempting to defraud a business after you have already been refunded. Tells me a lot about your character. I advise you use this link - https://www.gamstop.co.uk/ Also, for future reference this is your postcode - xxx xxY ???  (altered for security) Regards, Ash -------------------------------------------- My final mail: --------------------------------   I do not agree with any of your statements, in order for fraud to occur something must be untrue. You have other unhappy customers, that's interesting to know.   I acknowledge a partial refund has been received for  £24.99  - so  £25 is still outstanding.  I do not agree to a pro rata refund for something I haven't received.   Thanks for the link, but it doesn't apply to me (unless that was an insult, if so, you're 'business' condones insults to customers?)     Thank you for acknowledging you also have my personal data on file. Under GDPR, I do not consent to you storing any of my personal data and this now must be deleted as well as anywhere it may have been shared.   Thank you  
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Hastings/Principia/Auxillis - Tricked into a car hire when told it was a courtesy car!


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This is the full agreement they are expecting me to sign (less the page with my details stating I have agreed to all the conditions)

 

Priciple Law full agreement.pdf

 

So my first question, what happens if I simply decline their "offer" to represent "my case"?

I dont believe there is anything in the Auxillis T&C's that states that co-operation extends to and includes to having to hire a solicitor myself? 

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I'm sorry but I'm losing the plot on this thread – partly because you are posting up so much detailed information and I really don't have the time to deal with it all.

This really is a DIY forum – in other words we try to empower you and point the way that it isn't helpful that you post entire contracts rather than discover the part that you think is relevant and simply post that so we can have a look.

In principle, you have a fully comprehensive insurance policy.
This means that your insurer is responsible for everything and I find it amazing that they try to pass it off to someone else and get you to sign a contract with that person. That seems to me to be unacceptable. When you get a fully comprehensive insurance with a company then as far as I'm concerned you pay them to do it all for you and you may have to pay an excess or you may have to pay increased premiums the next year – but they are meant to be a one-stop shop. So the fact that they are involving Auxillis and attempting to put them into a direct contractual relationship with you seems to be unacceptable and unfair – not what you paid for.

Secondly, it seems to me to be entirely reasonable that they should require that you cooperate with a solicitor. You pay an insurance to protect yourself from losses – not to protect and at-fault third-party from losses and so if the insurance company reckons that it is economically worthwhile going to the expense of pursuing the third party in order to recover their losses then I don't see why they shouldn't. Also, if they get their money back from the third party then it should mean that their insurance premiums for their own clients should be cheaper in the future because they are able to recover the money that they pay out. (Of course this is a load of rubbish – they will always try to get the money from both ends) – but the principal is sound.

I'm still struggling to see why you should object to the fact that you have to cooperate with their solicitor. However I don't see why there should be anything to sign about this. It should be in the initial contract of insurance that they will pay you out without quibble, that you will not have to engage with any other party such as Auxilis to make it happen – and that you will assist them in any reasonable way to recover their losses.

That's how I see the picture. I would be amazed if you can show me anything in any of the insurers terms and conditions which contradict this

I'd be interested to see what site team member @unclebulgaria67 has to say about this

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Thanks for the reply and I am also loosing the plot with the whole situation.

 

So I will try and consolidate:

I took out a fully comp insurance policy with Hastings 

 

Someone drove into the side of me and they accepted liability at the scene 

 

I put in my claim with Hastings and they told me that in their opinion it was a not a fault claim 

 

They told me I should contact a company called Auxillis to handle my claim on their behalf and that this would be best for me as I would not have to pay an excess or loose my no claims, in fact they told me it would be no different than them handling the case except I would be better off. 

 

I received an email from Hastings telling me to contact Auxillis to arrange a courtesy car and repairs to my vehicle

 

This I did and received an email from Auxillis advising that I needed to log into their portal to arrange my replacement vehicle and accept their T&C's for doing so

 

This I did believing I was arranging for the courtesy car

 

My car was deemed a total write off some weeks later and the car collected and I was paid out by Hastings

 

All was quiet until a week ago I received an email from Auxillis telling me that:

1) What I believed to be a courtesy car was in fact a hired car which was chargeable

2) Part of their T&C's was a credit agreement which made me liable for all the costs of the vehicle and there was a clause stated I must assist in recovery in the event of a 3rd party not paying up

3) The 3rd party was not paying

4) I was told that part of the "assist in recovery" meant I had to sign another contract with a law firm of their (Auxillis) choosing agreeing that I was hiring said solicitors and again would be liable for all fees and charges 

 

So Auxillis are trying to make me sign a contract with their solicitors to be fully liable for all legal costs while THEY peruse THEIR costs unless they can recover them - Hence my reluctance at an average charge of £150 per hour and they tell me it will take a min of 8 months!!

Edited by symbiosis
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Okay, this is quite a nice summary.

In that case I suggest that you write to Auxillis – copy to Hastings

Tell them that although you are happy to cooperate with any attempt to recover Hastings losses, you will not be held liable for any costs should they not recover all of their outgoings and that you consider that your entire legal relationship is between yourself and Hastings and that your insurance agreement with Hastings covers all eventualities.

You refuse to sign anything else.

Furthermore if they persist in hassling you about this, you will begin a complaint to the financial ombudsman service.

I can't really think of any other appropriate response

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On top of this, as I apparently agreed to a "credit agreement" with Auxillis, I can only assume that they are heaping on some ridiculous daily interest rate charge as well.

 

As you asked why I dont want to co-operate with Auxillis solicitors - What bothers me is the other stories I have since discovered whereby a judge has found liability to not be undisputed, Auxillis  then saying that the claimant had broken the terms of their credit agreement and ultimately coming after them for full payment (which by then also includes a hefty legal fee). Quite happy to co-operate in supplying evidence etc etc but I will be dammed if I should agree to take on the legal fees!! That is not co-operation, that is blackmail pure and simple

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I think i understand the situation.

 

You did not take out the optional legal expenses policy when you bought the Hastings policy.  Therefore your Hastings policy has no legal cover to help litigate against the third party and their Insurers to recover your uninsured losses such as excess, car hire etc. 

 

So you have ended up in the situation, where the third party Insurers have decided to dispute liability and you have a choice of taking action yourself or signing up to the Principia contract being offered.

 

So yes if you are unhappy with the Principia arrangement, then reject this and advise Hastings that you will be acting for yourself to recover the uninsured losses from the third party. If Hastings have written off your car and paid you, ask them whether they have attempted recovery of the write off cost from the third parties insurers.

 

Now is time to gather any information you may not have, such as full cost of hire car. 

 

Have you checked whether there is CCTV of the car park available, by submitting a Data Protection SAR to car park operator ?

 

When you don't buy the legal cover, you suddenly realise after a claim, that you will become the expert in trying to  recover the claim values.  Insurers to save costs, no longer employ all of the staff to provide the full service they did decades ago.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks, yes that is mostly correct barb the fact that Auxillis tell me they have not had any communication whatsoever from the 3rd party, I denial of liability, nothing. 

 

Funnily enough I emailed Auxillis last night for a full breakdown of the costs

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Thus far no response from Auxillis, only messages from their law firm telling me to sign their T&Cs - I have emailed them to say I have not given any permission to act on my behalf as yet so am not liable for anything they have done thus far. 

 

I spoke with Hastings, there was a disbute of liability from the 3rd party and they refuted that some time ago. At my request, they contacted the 3rd party insurer's who said they are still investigating. Apparently they have only a few weeks left to settle or Hastings will also be starting proceedings against them, however without my involvement. 

 

I am seeking legal advice on how to proceed now. To my mine, agreeing to fully cooperate with Auxillis in retrieveing their costs does not extend to me having to take on a solicitor myself. I'm more than happy to provide any information ie cooperate 

Edited by symbiosis
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Hi OP. 
 

Just as a bit of background I’ve spent several years working on the Defendant side of the credit hire fence. 


Auxillis and Principia Law have the same company directors. The companies are linked. You’ll almost certainly have to go with them under the terms of the hire agreement. 

 

You’ve signed a credit hire agreement. You believed it was a courtesy car based on the email from Hastings.  Did you read it? I know that Auxillis get you to sign these things electronically. 
 

9 times out of 10 as stated above, you’ll not get as far as trial and the two sides will settle. 
 

In the run up, you’ll have to assist Principia as they go through the stages of litigation.  Nothing to worry about immediately. 
 

The point it will affect you is the disclosure and witness statement phase. They’ll likely want to see your bank statements from the time of the accident and disclose these to the other side.

 

They’ll also need you to sign a witness statement.  They will prepare this so read this statement very (I can’t emphasise that enough), carefully before you sign it.  Make sure it’s true. They’ll use a standard witness statement as a template which will say things like ‘Auxillis contacted you and explained it was a credit hire agreement‘ etc etc.  Don’t sign anything that’s not true.

 

Edit: Apologies, just read that there’s a possible liability dispute. That slightly increases the chance of this ending up at a Court hearing. 
 

Do you know how much the total hire charges are? Are they below £10k?

Edited by SuperVillain
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Very helpful information. Thank you.

If the OP does get one of these witness statements to sign then maybe they would be kind enough to post it up here so everybody can look – and learn.

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Apologies for the lack of replies - I've been busy in talks with Auxillis, Principa and Hastings about all of this.

 

I am currently awaiting the outcomes of my official complaints and will let you know what happens

 

SuperVillian, yes the charges are a fraction of the sum you mentioned

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