Hastings/Principia/Auxillis - Tricked into a car hire when told it was a courtesy car!

[symbiosis]

All was good with my insurance until I had to make a claim after someone drove into me. 

 

I recieved an email from the claims dept and was told to contact a company called auxilis to arrange a courtesy car (their exact wording) and repairs to my vehicle. This I did and the courtesy car was delivered 2 days later.

 

A few days after that the insurance vehicle assessor came out and looked at the damage, and a week later he sent in his report to my insurers.

 

Some 3 weeks later, my insurance company got back to me to say they had written off my car and a with a write off offer.

During this time (nearly a month) I had what I believed to be a courtesy car. 

 

I was then shocked to hear from this auxillis company that the car provided was a hire car on a credit agreement, that they had not managed to recover the fees from the 3rd party, and that I could be liable for the hire car costs unless I offered complete co-operation with their solicitors.

I am now being asked to sign an agreement with their solicitors to act on MY behalf!

 

I am finding this whole thing highly stressful and it's not over yet as I have been informed I might have to go to court as their witness!!

 

I feel completely mislead when I was told that I was being provided a courtesy car and that I only had the car as long as it took my insurance to declare it a total loss. 

 

Any idea where I stand please? 

[BankFodder]

Here's a little bit of reading to start off with https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/search/?q=auxilis &quick=1

 

It seems that Auxilis are going to make a name for themselves with this kind of behaviour.

I see that you've been here since 2007 so this is very lucky because it means that you are well aware of the advice which we constantly give here to record your calls so luckily you've got recording of the conversation you had with your insurer about the courtesy car and that will really help us push your case forward. Bravo

[BankFodder]

and by the way it would be helpful if you would let us know who your insured it is and also something about the kind of insurance that you have.

[symbiosis]

bankfodder - ta, ive some phone recordings (need to review them)

 

will read the thread and here is the email from Hastings stating it was a courtesy car, 

 

in the meantime - do i or do i not agree to sign up to their solicitors?

 

BTW i'm currently being treated for depression and suspected colon cancer which is making me a bit more less lucid than normal - please bear with.. 

 

We're here to help with your claim

Sorry to hear about the incident involving your car, and thank you for letting us know.

 

The repairer you've chosen will provide you with a courtesy car while they do the work, keep you updated throughout, and guarantee your repairs for five years.

Your approved repairer is:

Auxillis

 

Hastings told me to go with auxillis as otherwise i might loose my no claims with them, their adviser said it would be the best course of action

 

ps ps - sorry (i did say im on the edge), it was fully comp insurance if that helps

ta

[stu007]

HI

 

When you got the courtesy car:

 

1. Did you inspect the car?

 

2. What documentation did you sign for the courtesy car and what does it say? (you should have been given a copy)

 

You also  need to send a Subject Access Request (SAR) to your insurance company asking for 'All Data'  from the initial date of your claim to date. 

 

A SAR if free under the new Data Protection Act 2018 which includes the General Data Protection Regulation 2018 (GDPR) , they have 30 calendar days to respond on them acknowledging your SAR unless they need to verify ID which the time limit can be extended until ID verified

 

[unclebulgaria67]

The situation is slightly more complicated.

 

I think the coutesy car is provided through the authorised repairer, normally for 14 days.  You will find details in your policy. Beyond the courtesy car period, it is car hire.

 

Auxillis will try to reclaim the full costs for the whole period they have provided the car.  As you say the third party drove in to you, from what you have said, there is no dispute that the third party is liable.  So yes sign their paperwork to enable them to start to recover every penny that is owed by the third party insurers.  

 

I think it is just the poor way things are communicated. This is just a standard process.  Third party insurers will hold out before paying and might want to argue, if they think the car hire costs are excessive. Does not take away your right to also do the same, if they try to claim excess costs back from you.  When you sign the document, you can always add, that you retain the right to take all available actions, if you are asked to pay for hire car costs, which you have not agreed to pay.

[BankFodder]

I have to say I hadn't expected that you had any recordings and so my post was a bit sarcastic and probably over harsh. Well done on having some recordings – a huge number of people don't and they suffer as a result.

Follow the advice from @unclebulgaria67 above but I think somewhere along the line you need to put down a paper trail and let Hastings know that the car you have received has been received on the basis that it is a courtesy car and it is supplied under the insurance agreement and at no time have you consented to enter into any credit agreement.

This really concerns me. You've paid your insurance premium and therefore all of the service that they provide under it should be unconditional and if they are now trying to impose conditions on you which if you failed to meet then you will suddenly become liable for the "courtesy car" then I can't see that that is acceptable – unless may be something like that is buried in your terms and conditions of the insurance.

Maybe you had better start taking a look.

We have lots of complaints about Hastings and their conduct and we have had a couple of references now to Auxilis and I would recommend very strenuously that you record all phone calls as per our customer services guide and keep a very tight paper trail. Confirm everything in writing. If there's anything you disagree with then make it clear to them in writing that you disagree with it.

Also, I'm not aware that Auxilis is a repairer https://www.auxillis.com/

 

I think that they are some kind of proxy/agency which has set themselves up to deal with the logistics of insurance claims including the arranging of repairs and I'm sure that they basically have bot contracts with preferred repairers and preferred hire car companies so that they can obtain those services much more cheaply because they are buying them in bulk.

This is entirely reasonable of course – but at the end of the day your contract is with your insurer – and it's a shame that this is the second or third that the name of Auxilis has come up on this forum – and linked to Hastings insurance and I'm afraid it doesn't make for very nice hearing

[ericsbrother]

there is a 2 page spread on this problem in wednesdays "Daily Mail". you should be able t see it online.

The insurnace co's are getting fed up of being ripped off by these ambulance chasers and have done test calls on them to see what they say and some have dropped themselves in it my misrepresenting themselves.

You might find their consumer champion would happliy add your story to their files and that may make auxillis back off

These worms dont like a bright light shone on them

[Mwynci]

13 hours ago, symbiosis said:

 

 

in the meantime - do i or do i not agree to sign up to their solicitors?

 

 

 

I would, you have 2 issues here, one is the misinformation complaint from Hastings, the other is you have signed (I'm assuming signed) a credit agreement to go into hire, part of the agreement will be about co-operating or bear the costs - any complaint about that is against the hire company or the introducer. 

 

Chances are this will never go to court, both sides have a massive amount to loose by allowing this to court, not just about the financials of this claim, but precidents get set which can upset what is a pretty fine balance for the majority of claims that go through. 

 

[symbiosis]

Thanks for the replies and advice all and sorry I haven't been able to respond until now- some further info for you all:

 

Firstly, I had a long 45 min telephone conversation (all recorded of course) with Hastings who then put me onto Auxillis. Hastings initially denied sending the email in which they told me to contact Auxillis to arrange a courtesy car and vehicle repairs and so I forwarded it back to them. They then said that the wording had simply been a "mistake" but that it didn't make any difference to the fact that I had still hired a car on a credit agreement with Auxillis and had signed a binding contract agreeing to this. I find this unbelievable incompetence on their part. They absolutely would shoulder no blame even when I told them that my insurance contract was with them - not their 3rd party agency (which it seems is what Auxillis basically are)

 

I asked him to send me a copy of said signed document containing my signature as I didn't recall signing anything. He then told me that when I logged onto the Auxillis portal to proceed I would have had to had ticked a check box stating I agreed to their T&C's - THIS apparently was my signature.....

 

When speaking to the pre-lit dept lady from Auxillis I stated that the reason I ticked the agreed to our T&C's box was because I had received an email from them stating: Thank you for using Auxillis Limited to arrange a replacement vehicle following your recent incident (Note: no mention of the words hire or credit agreement) and that I was of the totally reasonable opinion that I was agreeing to the T&C's for suply of a courtesy car (since that was what I had been told I was getting from them by Hastings) - to be fair, she totally agreed with me!! They also told me that it had come to litigation due to the 3rd party insurers having made absolutely NO communication regarding the case. 

 

It transpires that when I ticked the agreement box  I also took out an insurance policy that covers me in the event of Auxillis not being able to recover their costs, part of their costs or even if in court a judgement was made in favour of the 3rd party - DEPENDANT on me agreeing to fully co-operate with their solicitors (called Principia Law) that includes a court appearance if required.....

 

I'm still very unhappy about the whole situation and STILL feel I was totally mislead by Hastings a) in their initial advice to go with Auxillis without telling me anything about the credit agreement and hire car b) with the email telling me it was a courtesy car which has lead to this whole mess.....

 

Would love to hear your opinions about how I have been treated

Edited February 7, 2020 by symbiosis

[BankFodder]

Firstly, I think that you are dealing with things very well and I think your comments are absolutely correct.

Presumably you have got their telephone denial that they ever emailed you about a courtesy car. This is important because the email together with the recording is itself extremely evidential of unfair treatment.
Can you tell us what kind of insurance you got. Is it fully comprehensive?

Do you have the details of the third party who ran into?

It's a long time since I've looked at an insurance policy that I have a feeling that there is generally speaking a provision that you will cooperate with any legal action which is taken against 1/3 party. I have to say that this seems to be quite reasonable to me. Can you check to see that there is such a thing. Of course, making it subject to conditions such as you may be liable for fees et cetera is totally unacceptable.
 

[symbiosis]

Thanks Bank Fodder - I'm certainly trying

 

In answer to your questions:

Can you tell us what kind of insurance you got. Is it fully comprehensive? Yes its fully comp

Do you have the details of the third party who ran into? I have the drivers details but not their insurers - I can ask Auxillis if it helps?

 

I will go through my policy with a fine tooth comb over the next couple of days and let you know what I find

 

Thanks for your help!

Edited February 7, 2020 by symbiosis

[BankFodder]

There is absolutely no need to concern yourself with the third party insurers.

Read through this thread and you will understand why.

 

Can we just sum up the situation now.

Somebody ran into you – they were at fault.
Your car was written off.
The value of your car was agreed with you and you have now received compensation for the value of the car.

Ancillary to all this, you used a courtesy car which they are now trying to describe as a hire car.
They are now trying to claim the cost of the hire vehicle from you unless you cooperate with their solicitors against 1/3 party.

At the moment because the value of your car has been reimbursed to you, you are not actually out-of-pocket – but you feel that there is a risk that they may proceed to claim the cost of the hire car from you.

They ask you to sign an agreement to cooperate with the solicitor and they are threatening you that if you don't, then they will pursue you for the cost of the hire car.

Have you had to pay any excess?

Why do you feel so reluctant agreeing to allow solicitors to handle your case?

Have you checked your policy or anything about your insurance contract which refers to this? I've already suggested to you a couple of times that I feel that this is probably not unusual and at the moment I don't see anything unreasonable about it – although I find that the threat that they are making is completely unacceptable

[BankFodder]

What can you tell us about the identity of the third party – without actually naming them?

[symbiosis]

Thanks Bank Fodder - some answers:

Somebody ran into you – they were at fault. (Yes as far as I'm concerned - whether they agree who knows)
Your car was written off. Yes
The value of your car was agreed with you and you have now received compensation for the value of the car. Yes

Ancillary to all this, you used a courtesy car which they are now trying to describe as a hire car. Yes

They are now trying to claim the cost of the hire vehicle from you unless you cooperate with their solicitors against 1/3 party. Yes

At the moment because the value of your car has been reimbursed to you, you are not actually out-of-pocket – but you feel that there is a risk that they may proceed to claim the cost of the hire car from you. Yes

They ask you to sign an agreement to cooperate with the solicitor and they are threatening you that if you don't, then they will pursue you for the cost of the hire car. Yes

Have you had to pay any excess? No

Why do you feel so reluctant agreeing to allow solicitors to handle your case? I'm worried about spiralling legal costs that could potentially come back on me (as they said I'm also liable for those)

Have you checked your policy or anything about your insurance contract which refers to this? I've already suggested to you a couple of times that I feel that this is probably not unusual and at the moment I don't see anything unreasonable about it – although I find that the threat that they are making is completely unacceptable. Not yet but the Auxillis agreement I "signed" apparently does

 

The third party driver, what can I say normal chap in his 60's (and clearly blind as a bat) although his wife was in the car whereas I was alone. No known witnesses 

Edited February 7, 2020 by symbiosis

[BankFodder]

You say that the Auxilis contract "apparently does". Have you not seen it?

You say that the third party driver was as blind as a bat. Is there a possibility that he shouldn't have been driving? How do you know that he was so visually impaired?

Can you tell us briefly how the accident occurred?

Also can I say that it's very unhelpful to simply give your answers to my questions simply as an extension of my sentences. It makes it very difficult for me and other people to read.

Apart from anything else I suggest that you start using the quotation function on this forum and also if you are going to give you answers a running commentary then please put them in a different colour.
At least that

[symbiosis]

Sorry about that... I shall change tack on replies

 

I've just downloaded the agreement and it does indeed have a clause relating to co-operation. I will post the full T&C's in a moment below

 

I said he was blind as a bat partly tongue in cheek but he drove straight into the side of me and then said "he just didnt see me" so its possible he is visually impaired

 

So briefly, the accident happened in a car park - a very badly laid out one at that. I followed a one way sign system and came out of this heading for the exit to find another stream of traffic was entering the exit road from the left in what appeared to be a junction (so I was driving across this flow of traffic). I saw a car at some distance away and stopped to check he had seen me OK. The car appeared to slow down but then accelerated straight into my  passenger door. 

 

 

Quote

Terms and Conditions
1. "Additional Driver" "Charges", "Deferred Charges", “Damage Protection”, "Damage Protection Charge”, “Excess”, "Fuel Service Charge", “High Risk Driver Charge”, “Hire Vehicle",
"Policy", “Refuelling Service Rate”, "We", "Us", "Our", "You", and "Your" have the meanings and/or mean the cost set out on the front of this Agreement.
2. This Agreement entitles You to a vehicle of the Tariff Group appearing overleaf but not to any one specific vehicle so We may change the vehicle at any time during the period of
hire, it applies to all vehicles supplied to You under it and the expression "Hire Vehicle" shall be construed accordingly. If at any time You do not need the Hire Vehicle for a period in
excess of 2 days We may, at Our complete discretion, collect the Hire Vehicle and deliver a replacement to You when you next have a need for a Hire Vehicle.
3. The period of hire continues until one party gives 24 hours notice to the other to conclude it, but in any event it shall not exceed (and if not previously terminated shall end
automatically and without notice at the end of) 12 weeks. To give notice of termination telephone the number overleaf.
4. Unless paid at the time, or before, hire commenced You shall pay all Charges except Deferred Charges as soon as the hire period ends.
5. As on the basis of what You have said We reasonably believe You had a motor accident for which someone else ("Third Party") was to blame You are required to pay the Deferred
Charges to Us in full in a single payment on the sooner of;
a) 49 weeks from the date of this Agreement; or
b) immediately after the Deferred Charges have been paid by a Third Party; or
c) immediately after breaching any of Your obligations under either clause 8(i) or clause 8(ii) below and We have notified You that We require payment; or
d) upon Your death, bankruptcy or inability to give instructions about Your Claim for any other reason.
6. Payment under clause 5(a) and/or clause 5(b) must be made without prior demand; if You choose to pay the Deferred Charges before You are required to do so You must pay them
in full by a single payment.
7 If We or the representatives or solicitors approved by Us receive a cheque which includes a payment in settlement of all or any part of the Charges, You authorise it to be paid to Us,
and for it to be paid into Our bank account even if it is made payable to You.
8. You must at all times (i) diligently try to recover from the Third Party Deferred Charges and any other claims You have against them using representatives or solicitors approved by
Us; (ii) ensure that neither You nor the driver of your vehicle mislead Us about how the accident happened or in any other important way.
9. Within 24 hours of being aware that Your vehicle is roadworthy or, if it was beyond economic repair, that Your claim for the pre-accident value of Your vehicle has been settled You
must notify Us and arrange to end the hire. When the hire ends (however it occurs) You must immediately make arrangements with Us to return the Hire Vehicle to Us. If You neither
make nor keep to arrangements for the return of the Hire Vehicle You irrevocably authorise Us to enter any premises belonging to You or that are in Your occupation or control to
repossess the Hire Vehicle without any liability for any loss or damage and You shall upon demand fully and effectively indemnify Us against all losses, liabilities, damages, costs,
actions, claims or demands which it may incur or may arise directly or indirectly out of or in relation to such retaking of possession.
10. Unless We are insuring the Hire Vehicle (which We will unless You expressly agree otherwise with Us) You must ensure that the Policy provides comprehensive cover for the
period of hire and until the Hire Vehicle is back in Our possession and in the event of damage to, or the theft of, the Hire Vehicle You must promptly and diligently pursue a claim with
Your insurers for the full amount of damage to, or loss of, the Hire Vehicle and You will hold the proceeds of such claim on trust for Us but will pay them to Us as soon as possible.
11. Where the Hire Vehicle is not insured by You mandatory third party insurance is provided at no additional charge by Us so long as You and/or any Additional Driver qualify for Our
standard insurance requirements in force from time to time. If You do, or any Additional Driver does, not meet Our standard insurance requirements cover may be provided on
payment (per relevant driver) of a High Risk Driver Charge. If You or any Additional Driver will not meet Our insurance requirements even if a High Risk Driver Charge were to be paid
We can decline hire without any liability.
12. You and any Additional Driver must comply with the terms and conditions of Our policy of insurance. In default You will make any payment necessary to put Us in the same
position We would have been in had there been no breach of the said insurance terms and conditions but for Your default even if you have agreed to a Damage Protection Charge.
13. You will be charged at the Refuelling Service Rate if We have to replace any fuel You have used. You do not have to replace the first 8 litres of fuel if You agreed the Fuel Service
Charge.
14. You will when asked pay Us the reasonable retail cost of repair or replacement if You do not return the Hire Vehicle including its accessories, parts and equipment in the same
condition as they were at the start of the hire, whether or not You caused the damage or loss. You will usually only have to pay the amount of Your Excess but there are exceptions
and if they apply You will have to pay Us the full reasonable retail cost of repair or replacement whether or not You have paid the Damage Protection Charge. The exceptions are: (a)
the damage or loss is, in our reasonable opinion, caused by the gross negligence, deliberate act or inappropriate use of the Hire Vehicle by You, an Additional Driver or a passenger;
and/or (b) there is interior damage, the wrong fuel has been used or there are missing keys (or equivalent), accessories, parts or equipment.
15. Where Your liability is limited to Your Excess You will generally not have to pay it if You have paid the Damage Protection Charge, except that You will have to pay Us the Excess
for any damage to the Hire Vehicle caused in the course of a theft (and ‘theft’ in this clause 15 includes ‘taking without consent’) or attempted theft of the Hire Vehicle.
16. You will be asked to pay us up to £60 (or £175 if due to anyone smoking in the Hire Vehicle) towards the cost of any extra cleaning even if You have paid the Damage Protection
Charge. We will judge, acting reasonably, whether cleaning is ‘extra’ (i.e. more than is normally required).
17. You will on demand pay to Us an amount equal to the daily rental rate appropriate to Your period of hire specified overleaf in respect of damages for loss of use for each calendar
day or part of a calendar day up to a maximum of 30 days where the Hire Vehicle is unavailable to Us for hire because You have not returned it in accordance with Clause 9 or it has
suffered a mechanical failure (except where You have complied with clause 23) or it has been damaged. We will have the repairs carried out in a reasonable time.
18. Following damage to the Hire Vehicle for which You are liable under this Agreement You will on demand pay to Us such sum as in Our opinion (acting reasonably) represents the
diminution in value of the Hire Vehicle.
19. When the Hire Vehicle is parked it must be weatherproof, locked and all anti theft devices supplied must be used.
20. You must pay all road tolls, penalties, impounded vehicle charges, infringements, congestion charges or any other charges imposed by statute or otherwise relating to the way in
which the Hire Vehicle is used, driven or parked
21. You must when asked pay Us on demand (i) the reasonable retail cost of providing or arranging roadside assistance (except where it is provided to rectify or deal with a matter that
is Our liability under this agreement) (ii) for any of the costs set out in clause 20 which We have paid on Your behalf and (iii) an administration fee of £50 plus VAT for each occasion
We deal with a damage claim relating to the Hire Vehicle or receives a charge and/or penalty or notification of any of them and each time We demand payment from You in respect of
payments due under this agreement other than Charges.
22. The Hire Vehicle must not be adapted or have any roof rack or towing equipment fixed (even temporarily) to it or be driven or used: (i) by anyone except You or any Additional
Driver; (ii) in any circumstances which may amount to the commission of a criminal offence (whether or not criminal proceedings ensue) or in breach of any applicable law or regulation
relating to health and safety at work; (iii) in a manner which may render void or voidable any contract of insurance which covers it; (iv) unless specifically adapted when and as
supplied by Us for such purposes and Our prior written consent has been given for the carriage of passengers for hire or reward or to tow or propel any vehicle or trailer or for driving
instruction; (v) for racing, pace making, reliability trials or speed testing; (vi) other than in a skilful, safe and proper manner in strict accordance with any operating instructions issued
for it and any statutory requirements, and require that it is operated and used by properly skilled, trained and licensed personnel or (vii) without Our prior written consent, outside the
United Kingdom mainland; without limiting Our discretion, such consent will not be given until You have provided proof that You have purchased foreign breakdown insurance and
without evidence of our consent You will be prevented from boarding a ferry or Eurostar. In default You will indemnify Us for all reasonable retail costs We incur to recover the Hire
Vehicle and/or dealing with all associated procedures.
23. You shall notify Us immediately should any damage or fault occur to make the Hire Vehicle unroadworthy or if continued use is liable to cause further damage and shall not in any
case use the Hire Vehicle until such damage or fault has been repaired.
24. We will be responsible for and will bear the cost of any mechanical breakdown not attributable to Your act, neglect or fault (and such neglect or fault would include but not be
limited to Your failure to maintain adequate lubricant levels) provided that Our consent is obtained before the repairs are carried out and they are carried out at a repairer of Our choice.
To the extent permitted by law We shall be under no liability whatsoever for any damage, loss, consequential loss, cost, charge or expenses arising out of or attributable to any
breakdown unless this results from Our negligence or breach of contract.
25. If an incident occurs which involves the Hire Vehicle (whether it is damaged or not) and another party or another vehicle or any other property, You or any Additional Driver must
obtain names, addresses and insurance particulars of all parties including but not limited to the users and owners of another vehicle or other property (and any witnesses). You must
pass this information on to Us within 24 hours of the incident and must notify the police promptly. You or any Additional Driver must not make any admissions as to the extent to which
You or they may be to blame for the incident. You must co-operate with Us and (as appropriate) Our or Your insurer at all times providing them complete and accurate information and
giving them any reasonable assistance requested by any of them. You will permit Your name to be used to enforce any rights or remedies against any persons in connection with the
Hire Vehicle including in any legal proceedings required to effect such enforcement.
26. Unless caused by Our own negligence, We are not liable for loss or damage to any property stored, transported or (including but not limited to upon its return) left in or on the Hire
Vehicle. Save as above in this clause 26, You will indemnify Us against claims relating to any such property.
27. The parties intend that this Agreement should be exempt from regulation by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 pursuant to article 3(1)(a)(i) of the Consumer Credit (Exempt
Agreements) Order 1989 and this Agreement shall be construed accordingly.
28. This Agreement, represents the entire agreement between the parties in relation to its subject matter and You acknowledge in entering into it that You place no reliance on any
representation or warranty express or implied and whether statutory or otherwise in relation to the subject matter of this Agreement, except that this provision shall not exclude any
liability which We would otherwise have to You in respect of any statements made fraudulently prior to it.
29. To be effective any amendments to this Agreement must be in writing and signed by both You and one of Our directors.
30. If any part of this Agreement is found to be unenforceable the remainder of it shall continue in full force and effect.

 

[BankFodder]

I don't think we have capacity for tongue in cheek in respect of this problem. I'm trying to find out exactly what happened.

You've posted the agreement – but is this the agreement with Hastings or is this a subsequent agreement which you have signed with Auxilis?

I want to know what your agreement with Hastings is. Any agreement with Auxilis is subordinate to your Hastings agreement almost to the point of not being valid – possibly.

Have you made any notes or statements in relation to his verbal statement "I just didn't see you". If you did make these notes then how soon after the accident did you make them? And you say that there was no witness other than the wife who was in the car – and didn't hear him making the statement. He was out of the car when he made the statement.

You say he "accelerated" into you. Why would he have been accelerating – there was that they no attempt to slow down?

The facts of this worry me because it sounds to me the kind of situation where he might change the story and say that you pulled out in front of him and gave him no time to stop.

[symbiosis]

This was the Auxillis agreement I posted - still need to find my Hastings cover and will post it asap

 

He was in the car when he made the statement that he didn't see me as was his wife, it was a hospital car park and the staff made us both move out of the way immediately as we were effectively blocking the only way through the site. Unfortunately that meant any witnesses immediately left the scene 

 

I made the statement re his comments of admission immediately i contacted my insurers. 

 

I'm happy to send you the photos I took at the scene and the routes of the cars etc by PM ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

We don't need to see any photos. We do need to see the original agreement with Hastings so that we can understand the status of the subordinate agreement and whether it has any validity.

[unclebulgaria67]

Just to add my thoughts on this.  At the moment, it is only a possibility that Symbiosis will be asked to contribute towards car hire costs.

 

 With these Insurance claims, even if the driver at fault is not in question, the Insurers will quite rightly question the costs they are being asked to pay. Therefore until the moment of decision, there can be this fear that a letter will be received asking to pay amounts, that people don't feel they are responsible for. 

 

Symbiosis was told it was a courtesy car, when it was really a credit hire car. This is a bit naughty, but the courtesy car per the Insurance contract would be for a week or two, to allow for a repair to take place. If the car is found to be a write off, then a hire car can be used to cover short period, before a permanent alternative can be obtained by the policyholder.

 

I would cooperate with the Insurers and Auxilis to get this resolved, but make sure they both have a letter on file that you are not happy with the courtesy car/hire car mix up and may take any necessary actions later, if they ever attempted to recover any costs from yourself.

[ericsbrother]

this is identical to  one of the 2 case studies in the daily mail so do go and read it to see if you can head off their actions before they trya dn recover monies from you.

the 3rd party insurer will be expected to pick up the bill but courts are aware that the other persons insurers are being taken for a ride  and are putting ther brakes on the level of compenstion they will award and that will leave you seriously out of pocket for no fault of your own.

You need to really go after your insurer and let them know that you have followed their instructions and will be after them if necessary. It wont harm you to co-operate, it just amkes more money for Auxilis and their solicitor though so hold your nose.

have you sent the car back now? if not do so immediately as they charge about £50k a year for a car worth £20k new

[symbiosis]

Hi ericsbrother - been trying to find this article in the Daily Mail. Do you have a link I can read it please and the date it was published?

 

Thanks

 

PS - car was returned a long  time ago (this all happened November last year) and I asked Auxilis what the costs actually were and it was about 2.3k 

Edited February 10, 2020 by symbiosis

[symbiosis]

On 07/02/2020 at 20:39, BankFodder said:

We don't need to see any photos. We do need to see the original agreement with Hastings so that we can understand the status of the subordinate agreement and whether it has any validity.

 

Sorry for the delay Bank Fodder, I was determined to have a stress free weekend.

 

All I can find looking through the very long policy agreement with Hastings re co-operation in case of a claim is this:

Quote

General conditions
You must comply with the conditions below. If you don’t, depending on the circumstances,
your Insurer may be entitled to cancel the Policy, refuse to deal with your claim or reduce the
amount of any claim payment.
1. Making claims
If you need to make a claim under this Policy you, or any insured driver, should phone our
claims helpline within seven days of the incident.
You, or any insured driver, must:
• Not admit liability for, or negotiate the settlement of, any claim unless you have your
Insurer’s written permission
• Not answer any writ, summons, letter, claim or other document from a Third Party relevant
to your claim on this Policy. Instead, send it to your Insurer immediately
• Tell your Insurer about any impending prosecution, inquest or fatal accident inquiry
• Give your Insurer all the information and help they ask for including any documentary
evidence to back up your claim. All information you provide must be true and correct to
the best of your knowledge.
Your Insurer has the right to:
• Take over and conduct the defence or settlement of any claim
• Take legal action over any claim.
These actions may be taken in your name or the name of any insured person.
If you don’t tell us, or your Insurer, of any changes or make sure any information you supply is
honest, full and correct, depending on the circumstances your Insurer may be entitled to cancel
your Policy from its start date, apply additional Premium or add new terms to your Policy. If you
make a claim they may be entitled to reject the claim or only provide partial payment for it.

 

[symbiosis]

I have finally managed to see the t&c's from this Principa Law outfit that they now want me to fully accept to - like the Auxillis portal there are two options, accept or decline.

 

I'm really not happy about agreeing to a potentially open cheque book of legal fees and would like your opinion on my next move please.

 

Firstly, here is an email from them:

 

Principia Law are acting on your behalf in regards to the credit hire vehicle.

The third party have not yet paid for the credit hire given by Auxillis and therefore we have been instructed by Auxillis to recover the outstanding money.

 

As the contract is between yourself and Auxillis, when you signed the credit agreement this made you legally liable for the charges.

 

Along with the contract you will have signed what is known as a credit protection policy which covers you from paying any legal charges or credit hire charges on the condition that you provide us with assistance and co-operation with your claim.

 

This assistance is in the form of checking information is factually correct and signing any documents that we send you once checked.

 

The next step once you have given us your authority to act is that we will issue court proceedings against the party at fault to push them to settle.

 

Although these are court documents this does not necessarily mean it will get to court stage, and this is normally enough for the at fault party's solicitor to send an offer to settle.

 

This is the aim of our assistance to ensure the debt is settled which in turn releases you from further liability.

If an acceptable offer is made then it can be accepted and any shortfall will not come back on you, the credit protection policy covers you for both the event of a short fall and legal charges as long as you have helped us with this claim.

 

I hope this helps you understand about why Principia have been instructed by Auxillis and that it is our main aim and in everyones best interests to get this settled as soon as possible.