PE PCN - wrong reg - PAPLOC - Cedar Court Hotel, Huddersfield

[karel35]

I just had a letter from parking eye this morning and wondered if I should contest

I was on a speed awareness course at a hotel last week and they said to stop a parking fine to put your registration into the system,

I have two vehicles are rarely use one but I did use it that day and automatically put the reg of my other vehicle in by mistake and so now have a parking fine

If I have to pay due to it being my fault then fair enough but if it is worth contesting then I will 

Thanks for any advice

[AndyOrch]

Topic title amended...only the council issue fines....this is a speculative charge...not a fine.

 

Andy

[FTMDave]

Yes, of course you can contest this speculative charge - and we'll help you!

 

A couple of questions.  Did you pay to enter the car park?  Did you have some sort of booking at the hotel (I ask this as I'm wondering whether it would be worth approaching the hotel to cancel the charge)?

 

Please complete this sticky which will help us to see if Parking Eye have bothered to follow the legal procedure properly.

 

 

[karel35]

I did not pay for a ticket no, they said just put your Reg into this iPad as you enter and they will know you were with us. Who do I approach, the hotel in person or appeal to the cowboys via letter?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

questionnaire please

 

dx

 

[Gick]

Unfortunately Andyorch in Post #2 is wrong. Councils cannot issue fines, on a Court can. The council can issue Penalty Charge Notices only.

[brassnecked]

It's not a Council PCN its an Invoice from P  If you fill in the questionnairew we can se exactly what is going on Parking Eye the ones that use Beavis in stuff it could never apply to.

[ericsbrother]

PE are members of the BPA who have tightened up their rules on mistyped car reg numbers but that doesnt include completely different vehicles.

 

What you have with PE is a unilateral contract between them and YOU, not a piece of metal so although you entered the wrong reg they have suffered no loss and their system will have the details stored of the reg you punched into their screen.

 

Now my thought is that they will ahve had to process this data as well as the other vehicle data so shold have realised that the driver was likely to eb the same person and this error is therefore de minimis the same way as a mistyped number would be. There is also precednt with this in the councils parking tribunals so PE may squeal but no valid claim can be made by them.

 

I would appeal stating that you entered the reg of you other vehicle and this fits in with the BPA new Code of Practice on mistyped reg numbers and see what they say.

 

When they reject your appeal you go to the BPA and say the same and point out the "de minimis" rule and the how this should be interpreted in thier new code and point out that PATAS has decided that this is reason enough for cancelling a PCN so if they reject your appeal they should cite a case law precedent that is more recent than the PATAS/parking adjudicator decision.

 

It would be wise to look this determination up and quote it of you can find it

[FTMDave]

As usual EB has his finger on the pulse of what is going on in this industry!

 

When you appeal write "the driver input a registration number" not "I input the registration number" so you don't identify yourself as the driver and lose your POFA protection.

 

It might be worth a belt & braces approach of going after the hotel too.  Contact them and point out you were a genuine guest, you weren't abusing their facilities, and you just made a slight mistake which is considered "de minimis" under law.

 

Is the hotel part of a chain?  I ask because, if so, you can always escalate to local and/or CEO level if they fob you off.

[brassnecked]

If a chain hotel escalate to Head Office, as it's likely they who brought the egregious Parking Eye in anyway.

[ericsbrother]

I dont think it matters that you identify yourself this time as you are saying the error is due to the ownership of 2 vehicles and you input the wrong data which would have still resuted in the same offer and acceptance as it is the DRIVER who is contracted, not the keeper.

I do agree with asking the hotel chin to intervene but dont be upset if they decline, PE still dont have a leg to stand on with this

[brassnecked]

Beavis cannot apply either, even if their silly letters say it allows them to sue your next door neighbours cat, it applies narrowly to it's own facts so doesn't even apply in most Parking cases.

[karel35]

Thanks for all the replies,

they have come back and said it is my responsibility to put in the correct details but offered me a charge of £20 as a goodwill gesture,

I said on the initial letter I would not be paying and would go to court if need be, this seems like a last attempt to get something from me.

Is it worth paying to receive the hassle or stick firm and just tell them I am willing to go to court and presume they will just drop it, the hotel is not part of a chain by the way

[dx100uk]

no!!

 

dx

[FTMDave]

2 hours ago, karel35 said:

I said on the initial letter I would not be paying and would go to court if need be, so this seems like a last attempt to get something from me.

 

Spot on.  I would just ignore them now.  You've already told them you're not paying.

 

If they had any sort of case they would be preparing for court action, not offering you massive discounts.

 

Come back here is they ever send a LBA though.

[ericsbrother]

no, they know what the BPA rules say about this and you owe them nothing. they are hoping to recover the fiver they spent on obtaining your details by trying it on

 

Your choice, either use the BPA appeals process and read carefully the new code of practice and  use that in your appeal or ignore PE entirely until they actually send you a LBA

 

The letter they sent shoul have triggered a code for an appeal to POPLA so give that a try using whatever reference you ahve and if ther computer gateway rejects the reference dont bother asking PE  for another chance just take a screenshot of the POPLA page and keep it to beat them with later if necessary

[karel35]

They have sent a letter saying they do not accept my version and that I did not give them more evidence which they asked for (they didn't).

 

my recent appeal was unsuccessful and I have reached the end of my appeals procedure because I have not provided enough evidence, which in my book I have. I have all the emails saying I successfully attended the course on that date from the police, shown I own both vehicles etc.

 

They're offering me the discount of £20 for another 14 days or I can appeal to POPLAand informing me of Ombudsmen services.

 

Then a long page with details of FAQ, which I can't be bothered to trawl through,

I am not paying them anything,

can I still ignore them?

 

I told them if they had a case to take me to court and not bother sending anymore letters out as they will go in the bin but they ignore and continue to try and scare me into paying.

 

Thanks for any advice

 

 

[honeybee13]

I don't think the advice has changed karel. Unless and until you receive a Letter Before Claim/Action, ignore. As you say, they're trying to frighten you.

 

HB

[karel35]

Thanks, just checking, will hang tight

[ericsbrother]

so having been given advice to either go down the BPA POPLA route or do nothing you choose to continue to write to them via email, a method we always say avoid because it allow them free access to harass you.

I would recommend the do nothing choice as the POPLA route does have its pitfalls, especially if you dont get the detail right

[karel35]

Who mentioned emailing them? Not sent them one email, sent one reply by letter and that was weeks ago

[dx100uk]

[karel35]

I have just received a letter before court claim, is this nothing to worry about?

[dx100uk]

what does it say in the post you quoted?

you do not ignore a letter of claim

 

who's it from gladstones? BW? 

[karel35]

It just says LETTER BEFORE COUNTY COURT CLAIM and is still from Parking Eye

 

I feel I have a v good case so would be surprised if they pursued especially after offering me a fee of £20 

 

So what next?

 

Thanks