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    • Hi BankFodder   Many thanks for your assistance in this matter.   I have decided to commence County Court action against DPD/Parcel2go regarding the lost parcel.   I would just like you to clarify whether which company you recommend me to commence legal proceedings against:   Parcel2go. My contract was made via this company.   Or DPD - This company undertook the contract and are the ones who lost the parcel.   I look forward to hearing from you soon.   Kind Regards Humza
    • I lost my job this jan because work decided not to extend my probabation, so i've been out of work since then. During this time I have made 3 payments of £270 from my own savings and now I am really struggling.   I rang motonova last month before COVID19 started and explained I lost my job and wanted a reduction in the payment but they asked me what my out goings were and told me 'it looks you can make this months payment so we can't do anything etc'   Since COVID19 has started motonova now have this form available to ask for reduction of payments - see https://customer.motonovofinance.com/file/cms/raw/888dda418afb548c00a1afc1cde50704.pdf   Given my weak financial situation can anyone help me with what I put down for these sections of the form so my request to lower or freeze payments stands a good chance of being accepted   1. Is your situation realated to the Coronavirus outbreak? Yes   2. Do you consider yourself to be in a high risk group, if so why?Do you explicitly consent to us recording this information in your account notes? I am no longer employed and have no income coming in. Work have made cuts due to Corona and no longer employed by them I am sorry I wont be able to make payments of £270   3. How much can you pay? I can pay £25 a month   4. What are you proposing, and what help would you like from us? I've lost my job and have no income. I've had to self isolate under the goverment guidelines with my family because my daughter had a cough at school. I've been applying for numerous jobs and have no luck and the COVID19 situation in the country has made the whole situation even worse for me. I request given the financial difficulty I am in that  you please accept my offer   What do you think of my reasons and how can you add or improve them? I really stressed out because my next payment is coming up in 3 weeks and I'm down to my last £400 of my savings and I've no idea how long it will take me to find a job  
    • Hi All   As im new to this site and here for as much advise as possible to help me and a few fellow work colleges regarding a situation with our employer given the current circumstances with the COVID-19 (coronavirus).   Basically since i started working for said company i have never been given my contract or employer handbook to view as when i need to, its always stored inside our boss's office and past staff have been refused to view it when they have wanted to, what i want to know is, is it a legal requirement for a employer to give there employees a copy of there contract/ handbook or is there a clause that can allow him not to?   Also i have currently been in self isolation due to cornavirus and have spoken to our company via email with no reply from them but have heard from colleagues that the work has slowed down, and in the recent email i have sent i spoke about potentially being put on 'furlough pay' if work stops completely. Can he refuse to put certain staff on it and still keep the business open even though there is no work? As well as not providing sufficient hygiene sources given the current climate, would that put him in breach of contract (if could view mine to start off with) ?   At the minute we are stuck in limbo given we are still off in self isolation for another week and he doesn't really care about his staff, what would be the best course to take regarding the matters above??   HELP!    
    • I have been trying to get onto the MCOL site for several days now, it keeps saying that the password is wrong and i haven't been able to get to talk to someone on the phone, i have prepared a defense and its ready to email, just realised today is day 33.   Here it is for your considderation, thank you.   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 1.Paragraph 1 is noted; I have in the past had financial dealings with MBNA. I am unaware of the alleged agreement the Claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim and have therefore sought clarity from the Claimant by way of a Section 78 request and a CPR 31.14 request.   2. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unaware of any service of a Default Notice (s) pursuant to section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 by the original creditor MBNA. I have sought verification from the claimant regarding this matter and they have been unable to comply.   3. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and (c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   4. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request, copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   6. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   7. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. I confirm that the above facts and statements are true to the best of my knowledge and recollection.
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david_v_goliath

Interesting Packlink / Hermes / eBay claim - where does the liability lie?

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@BankFodder, I have registered with MCOL, and am preparing my claim form.

I have ticked the 'will send detailed particulars of claim' option, and the 'I'm claiming interest at the statutory 8% rate' box.

 

In the brief, POC box, I am stating the following:

 

1.       On 23 Jan, I sent a package using the Hermes delivery service.

2.       On 2 Feb, Hermes confirmed that “the parcel is lost in our network”, but refused to compensate me, “as your parcel was booked through Packlink”.

3.       On 9 Feb, I issued a claim for compensation to Packlink. I received £32.29.

4.       On 11 Feb, I issued a letter before action to Hermes, requesting compensation for the balance of my loss.

5.       On 12 Feb, Hermes again denied any compensation.

 

This just about fits! I have few questions:

 

a) Should I be making reference to the grounds of my case here,  i.e. by reference to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act, and or an accusation of negligence in the alternative, or should I just detail that in the detailed particualrs of claim

 

b) Disclosure. How can I get access to the contract between Packlink and Hermes, to ensure that there is no third party exclusion clause?

 

c) Have I missed anything else (I've followed your guide on this forum, and also the user guide on MCOL)

 

 

 

 

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You don't have to have it in numbered paragraphs. You can simply have it in narrative form – and that will give you extra characters.

 

Quote

The claimant seeks reimbursement of the value of a parcel which was lost by the defendant delivery service about XXX date. The delivery was arranged through Packlink, a broker acting on behalf of the defendant. The parcel was contained XXX item was worth £XXX. £XXX has been reimbursed by Packlink and the claimant now seeks the balance of £XXX from the defendant. The defendant has confirmed in writing that they lost the parcel but declines to reimburse the claimant. The claimant relies upon the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. Alternatively the defendant was negligent.
The claimant seeks £XXX plus interest per section 69 County Courts act 1984+ costs

 

Do you need to send an extra particulars of claim. I'm not clear that is necessary in this case. What do you think?


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no don't use extra particulars

all you need is to cover the basics 

BF's example above is perfect.

 

anything else you expand upon your basic details in your witness statement if they don't cough before then.

 

dx

 

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Thank you @BankFodder for that suggested wording, and @dx100uk for confirming.  I had forgotten about the possibility of serving a witness statement. Presumably I will get an option to do that if and when Hermes files its defence, and the Court orders standard disclosure?

 

The only other reason I can think of to file detailed particulars of claim is explain how I have quantified my claim - as attached (as the calculation is not otherwise obvious).

 

Should this go in the WS too?

 

 

Calculation of loss.PNG

Edited by david_v_goliath
Calculation attached

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No


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No to putting it in a WS? Do you mean I should put it in the detailed POC instead, or not at all? 

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Meaning just send off the claim as suggested – see what they come up with by way of a defence and then respond to it.

Keep it simple


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Served on 16 Feb.

 

On reviewing the MCOL website today for an updated, I noticed that 1) Hermes has aknowledged the claim, but not yet filed a defence, and 2) that I there was a glitch / error on the form. Essentially, it looks like I had accidentally left the "I will send detailed particulars of claim" box ticke (I thought I had unticked it), with the result that the claim section has been truncated, and some extra text has automatcially been added - in red below):

 

"...Claimant seeks £XXX, plus
I will provide the defendant with separate
detailed particulars within 14 days after
service of the claim form.

The claimant claims interest under section 69
of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of..."

 

This is obviously not ideal. Is it better to try to amend the claim somehow, or to just submit a brief POC that a) clarifies that I am seeking £XXX plus costs (which was automatically truncated), and b) sets out my calculation of the £XXX?

 

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Definitely not ideal – it could have been avoided  .

Yes, send a very short POC immediately and sign a certificate of service.

 


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Hi @BankFodder - I hope you are keeping well!

 

I have finally received a response from Hermes to my claim. It is a full defence. Hermes admits that it has lost my parcel, puts me to strict proof as to the value of the claim, but denies that it is liable to pay damages claimed for break of contract and/ or negligence. It asserts that there is no contract between Claimant and Defendant, and that Claimant enterted into a contract with Packlink, which was made very clear during the order process, and that Claimant should desist with this claim and contact Packlink. Hermes does not ever aknowledge that I rely on the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.

 

I am hoping for a mediation (although I have not yet been contacted). If not, I suppose I will receive a directions questionaire next, and will need to prepare for a hearing.

 

Would it be helpful for me to upload the defence (or an anonyised version of it) here?

 

Also, in one of the FAQs on this website, you suggest that I could write to the court and suggest some directions, if, for instance, I feel that the defendant has been withholding evidence. Do you think Hermes ignoring my claim in relation to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act warrants requesting disclose of the contract between Hermes and Packlink - with the purpose of verifying that there is no explicit exclusion that would warrant this act inapplicable? 

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yes one multipage PDf please

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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If they refer to their contract with Packlink in their defence then you can put in a CPR 31.14 request.

 

Anyway, don't worry that they don't reference the third parties Act. Why would they want to play into your hands? It will be more interesting if they denied it. Frankly the fact that they are silent on the matter indicates that they are subject to it.

And anyway, liability negligence has nothing to do with contract – and it is clear that is reasonably foreseeable that you as the sender of the item could be affected by their negligent acts or omissions.

 


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@dx100uk - attached now. I have copied the wording into a new document, anonymised it, and added a couple of notes of my own (all highlighted yellow) including for ease of reference to relevant sentences in my claim. I'd welcome your and BankFodder's thoughts and advice!

 

@BankFodder - they refer to being a subcontractor to Packlink, at paragraph 4. CPR 31.14 seems to relate to "Documents referred to in statements of case etc....(1) A party may inspect a document mentioned in...(a) a statement of case". I wonder whether Hermes' wording is sufficient to make a request? And your latter two points make perfect sense to me! 

 

 

Hermes' defence - anonymised.pdf

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I think that the reference to them being a "subcontractor to provide delivery services…" and also to a "pre-existing commercial agreement…" is quite sufficient reference to allow you to make a CPR 31. 14 request – and it's no skin off your nose to make it and it's up to them either to satisfy it or to say why not. Also – at paragraph 24 they agreed that they had a contract with Packlink – which is another reference to a document which brings within the ambit of CPR 31,000 

Secondly, they don't address your point about the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act and I think that is significant – but anyway you made the point and it's up to the court to decide. I notice that they are putting you to strict proof as to the issue of the Third Parties Act – and I think this also gives you access to CPR 31 disclosure.

Thirdly, they haven't at all addressed the issue of negligence. They haven't explained that they don't owe you a duty of care or that the type of damage you suffered was foreseeable.

It's a piece of sloppy drafting – which is what we are used to from this company – and particularly the missing paragraphs demonstrate that very well.

The important thing is that they accept that they've lost the parcel. Now they have to convince a judge that they don't owe you any duty either contractual or duty not to handle your goods negligently. I think they've got a tough job and if you go to mediation I think you would be wrong to give even an inch of ground to them. Stick by your guns. It's not very much money and they will be very stupid to take this much further. They might try mediation as a cheap option – but they won't want to go further. Stick by your guns and don't give an inch.

Insist on the money plus all your costs and don't give ground. Particularly if they don't respond to your CPR 31 request – then that is something absolutely to hold over them because if they don't accede to your request and effectively means that they have something they don't want to reveal to you. You can point out to the mediator that they will have to reveal in court as part of their core bundle if they don't rely on it.

 

In fact, you should make it clear to the mediator that you will only enter into mediation if they satisfy your CPR 31 request. Tell the mediator that if they won't then it is the lack of cooperation which is pushing you both into court. That should be the end of the conversation until they reveal the documents.

They're idiots


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Thank you for your thoughts and advice! I will do as you suggested.

 

A have a couple of questions on timing and format.

 

On timings:

 

I am still waiting for a mediator to contact me, and to receive the the directions questionnaire. Should I wait on either / both of these before proceeding with the CPR31.14 request? The status of the claim is as below. This suggests to me that the DQ has only been sent to Hermes, and not to me, so I don't know if I'll ever receive it. It doesn't seem to be available on the MCOL website.

  • A bar was put in place for Hermes Parcelnet Limited on 20/03/2020
  • Hermes Parcelnet Limited filed a defence on 20/03/2020 at 14:05:15
  • DQ sent to Hermes Parcelnet Limited on 23/03/2020

On format:

 

Is there a prescribed form, or wording for the CPR31.14 request? Or do I just send a letter to the Court and Hermes, requesting disclosure of Hermes/PackLink contract under CPR 31.14, and make reference to this contract being relied upon in Hermes' defence? 

 

Sorry for what may be stupid questions - but I can't fine answers to these in the MCOl guide, or in your (generall very helpful) FAQ on this website!

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Claimants shouldnt need  CPR 31.14...you are the claimant.Ring the court and ask about your DQ.

 

Disclosure of documents follows allocation....( after you submit your DQ)

 

Andy


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