ECP ANPR PCN - didn't enter reg no? -Toby Carvery, Hall Green, Birmingham ***CANCELLED BY TOBY***

[stripy]

About ten days ago me with family went to Toby Carvery.   

They have a screen where you need to enter car reg number which I did. 

Now I received a notice from ECP asking for £85.

 

We paid with credit card, it should be on statement, however we didn't retain the receipt.  Would this count as a proof we dined there?

 

Also, regarding the screen mentioned above. 

I did enter car reg number, but there wasn't any confirmation screen after I clicked 'enter'. 

 

As I remember, it just went back to default/original screen asking to enter reg number. 

I assumed I had logged my car in (that was how it worked) and went in. 

 

However, I don't rule out that I made a mistake when entering registration number. 

Am I still liable to pay a fine? 

Advise would be very much appreciated. 

Thank you. 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Firstly, it isn't a fine, private companies don't have the power to fine people.

 

Yes, if you can prove you paid with your card that will easily see off these fleecers.  Is payment definitely shown on your statement?

 

Can you fill in the forum sticky please, it will help the experts to see if the PPC have messed up their NTK?

 

 

[stripy]

Thanks for reply.  just to make it clear, I paid with credit card Toby carvery meal, not parking ticket.   For Toby users parking is free, that's why the screen at the entrance to log the reg number in.  attached is the PDF file of the notice.

ECP Toby Carvery.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Could you let us have the information from the sticky that FTMDave linked to please? We can't advise you properly without that.

 

HB

[stripy]

Hi honeybee13,  I have attached the PDF file to my previous post above with NTK  scanning. 

[dx100uk]

still need the Q&A answered please for the ANPR section in that link..ta

 

dx

 

[stripy]

I should add that I clearly remember entering my vehicles reg number on the screen.  I'm inclined to think that there was a glitch that reset the screen to default 'welcome' screen at which point I assumed I had logged my car reg number. But, as it looks like it wasn't logged in :(.

 

No problem:

1 Date of the infringement  -  19.01.2020

2 Date on the NTK  -  27.01.2020

3 Date received  -  29.01.2020

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  -  yes

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?  -  image of number plate

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?]   -  no

7 Who is the parking company?  -  Euro Car Parks

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]  -  Toby Carvery,  Hall Green,  Birmingham

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.  -  yes.  First to ECP itself, and if not successful, then POPLA

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS.   -  They say they belong to BPA

No further communications.

[dx100uk]

you parked for less than 1 hrs so don't worry about the reg no issue

I suspect if you go look at the Org planning perm given by the relevant council on their webportal planning section, you'll see that the free parking is 2 or 3 hrs, no-one can change that.

 

dx

 

 

[ericsbrother]

the rules parking co's have to abide by have changed recently so your event should be one that they have to cancel the charge for but i wouldnt hold my breath on that .

 

Unusually for me I am going to suggest appealing this but before you do try contacting the head office of the Toby Carvery chain and tell them that the garbage system they ahve allowed these bandits to install to make money for themselves has failed and that you hold Toby responsible for the trouble you are being caused as legally that is where the buck stops and give the the opportunity to tell ECP to cancel rather than you suing them for the breach of the GDPR.

Also let them know that you are minded to knock the £85 off the food and drink bill by way of a chargeback if they say it isnt their problem as it is their problem.

 

Then appeal to ECP and state that their equipment failure isnt a reason to issue a charge notice and that the new BPA rules mean that they are obliged to cancel. If they dont then you appeal to POPLA but we will treat that as a separate event so again dont be in a hurry to feel ike you need to do something when you dont have to yet. we will help you with that appeal when the time comes

 

The Toby website has a leave a review section so take advantage of that if they wont co-operate. just the facts you used the ECP screen to input your data and it didnt work, Toby are responsible for its installation and have failed to instruct their agents to obey  the rules and you wont be recommending that anyone visits their establishment until the parking problems are PROVABLY sorted

[stripy]

Downloaded credit card statement, it shows date (not exact time) and place 'Hall Green' (Toby is not mentioned, instead it says restaurant and post code) with transaction reference number.  I don't know if I can get more details about this transaction from card company.

I did think to contact Toby first, I got they phone number (the one we went) but thought to post it here first before taking any steps.  

 

[dx100uk]

planning perm..

[ericsbrother]

you go to the top, not the outlet you visited. They ahve no say in who runs the car park so cant help you even if they wished to

[stripy]

Local Toby I want to contact to confirm they have CCTV recordings.

I will update here once I contact them.

 

[dx100uk]

no need

[ericsbrother]

is that cctv from a camera overlooking the input pad for the registration? anything else is almost worthless.

 

get on to head office and get them to cancel or the parking co will say that they arent ging to unless you pay them for their wasted costs. not your fault they are incompetent but they like to try it on

[stripy]

Hi everybody and many thanks for your responses. 

 

Here's an update on this case:

I called the Toby Carvery we went,

quickly explained situation and they said to pop in with credit card statement and they would cancel the charge. 

 

The reason for the charge could have been that car reg was entered with mistake. 

As I understood, it happens quite often so quite a few people could be in same situation.  

 

we went there on wednesday,  left the notice (took picture of it first) and hopefully we won't hear from them any more.

[FTMDave]

Brilliant - well done on your victory!

 

Maybe write a quick mail to Toby to thank them, so you have the cancellation on record.  The PPCs have been known to use every dishonest trick in the book to try to resurrect invoices.

[ericsbrother]

Ideally you need a confirmation in writing that this is the end of the matter as some parking co's like to resurrect these claims years after the event.

[stripy]

The manager made a note on the notice and that's what we took picture of. 

 

In any unlikely scenario if we receive a letter, she asked to come back, but assure us that it won't be the case. 

Also, the manager said it takes them around 20 min to cancel each charge. 

 

Since we were at Toby and it went all smooth, we decided to stay for a meal. 

only then I noticed that virtually on every wall and column there was a notice to enter car reg number. 

I presume quite some people simply forget or don't notice it. 

 

I wonder why they need this ECP contract at all as there are not many shops around and not double yellow lines either. 

[ericsbrother]

Then you need a short lesson on how the parking co's work.

they go round these places and sell themselves as beng the answer to a nonexistent problem of parking control.

 

The person they get to sign them up wont have visited the actual location and is often quite junior or a member of staff for a third party such as a property management co so the top bosses of the landlord dont even know they have entered into an agreement.

 

the parking co promises that apart from a charge for dunpng their kit all over the place the parking management is free and dont explain that they make money by hacking off the business' customers and inventing pernickity breaches to chisle money or to create false limits on time that dotn allow you to do a big shop on a busy day without getting clobbered.

 

When the business gets wise to the shenanignas of the aprking co they find they cant boot them out for at least a year and cant even stop them breaking the law.

 

Sometimes the parking co's just slap their signs on people's land without permission and start charging.

I have a good friend who is a commercail property owner and had this on some land behind a parade of shops he owned.

 

The cheeky sods even threatened to sue him for damaging their signs when he took them down and as far as they were concerned the lack of permission to be there didnt alter the validity of the contract their illegal signs offered the public and sadly in law there is soem truth to that and that is one of the reasons the POFA is worded as it is.

 

So in your case some minor factotum at head office agreed to let this lot loose becasue they were lied to about the effectiveness of parking control and now their busniess is suffering but they wont learn from their mistakes