Athena ANPR PCN - overstay - Lidl Ormskirk ***CANCELLED BY LIDL***

[Dave962]

Hi

 

I've been handed a parking charge by Athena due to overstaying in the Lidl car park.

 

The store only opened last month, and this was our first visit.

 

The only signs we could see upon our visit were big blue 'P' signs - very much like the standard parking sign.

 

It turns out we were only allowed 1.5 hrs. We stayed for 2.

 

I've appealed to Lidl Head Office, they are not interested.

 

Are you able to offer me advice please on how to appeal this particular charge? 

 

Would you require any further details or any evidence sent through?

 

Many thanks in advance

Dave

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Could you let us have the information from the forum sticky please? It will help us to advise you.

 

 

HB

[Dave962]

Thanks HB

 

I could answer most that stuff now, but rather than waste your time, I will wait to revisit the store tomorrow to send you a picture through of the infamous blue sign. It’s pretty shocking really.

 

Ill then send the lot through in the one go if you like.

[brassnecked]

Have you appealed to Athena?  If not don't as you might inadvertantly ID the driver, and that removes POFA protection, please post up what you have as pdf, and please answer the wquestions on the sticky provided by HoneyBee13, that will then give the info needed to give best advice.

[Dave962]

Thanks Brassnecked, here's the answer to the questions below...

 

1 Date of the infringement - 19/01/20

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE  PDF- follow the upload guide] - 22/01/20

 

3 Date received - 25/02/20

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] - N

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? - Y

 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] - N

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? - Athena ANPR Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] - Lidl Ormskirk

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. - IAS

 

I have also appealed to Aldi Head Office, but they have effectively washed their hands with it and advised me to follow the appeals procedure.

 

It's not letting me upload my PDF though even though I've followed the steps and it's only 1.8MB in size.

 

I'll try again below this thread...

 

 

[FTMDave]

I find it incredible that Lidl want to drive customers away from a supermarket that has just opened!

 

You could try embarrassing them on their FB/Twitter/etc. pages.

 

Plus look up the planning permission for the new supermarket.  It could well be that the time allowed for parking is more than an hour and a half, which seems very short to me.

 

 

[Dave962]

Ive got the Notice on. Now im having problems with photos, but this is because Apple use a stupid HEIC format of saving instead of jpg.

Athena ANPR Ltd edited new.pdf

[brassnecked]

The parking time is usually 2 or 3 hours as 90 mnutes is usually insufficient for a big shop, especially on the larger stores with a cafe, but PPC makes no money with that so they cut the time to suit themselves.  As FTMDave says embarrassing them on SM and local press is an option, appealing is not. would be good to get pics of the signs at the entrance and the ones dotted about the site so we can see exactly what is on them,  posted up asd pdf also are the cameras on poles or attached to the store? Others will be along also with further advice.

[Dave962]

Im fanatically trying to do it. Since Apple iOS 11 all photos are now saved as HEIC. Im having a nightmare converting them. They show you exactly what you have just asked about...

[brassnecked]

Apple will always introduce incompatibility to lock you into the Walled garden of Cupertino.

 

A guide here

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/345504/how-to-open-heic-files-on-windows-or-convert-them-to-jpeg/

 

 You can disable HEIC in settings and force jpeg according to one review on IOS 11, but that won't help with pictures already taken and stored.

[Dave962]

Thanks Brassnecked you're a star!!

 

Here you go, my only apology is that i never took a close up pic of the main sign really - the blue 'P' sign that you can only see as you enter the car park from the road.

 

Sorry about this I'm not sure how well you can zoom in, but if needed i will go back tomorrow to retake.

 

As you can see though, it is those 2 blue signs that green you as you drive in. Nowhere else can you view the terms of the car park unless you park around the border of the car park.

 

Please let me know you're thoughts and if there is any more I can do to help.

 

All it says on the Blue Sign is "Private Land" - Controlled Parking Area" (I've just zoomed in on my phone)

 

 

 

 

 

[Dave962]

Hope this works...

Athena PCN Lidl-compressed.pdf

[FTMDave]

Indeed it does!

 

The signage is laughable, all the main signs say nowt about T&Cs.  There are loads of ways to bat off this silly claim.  You won't be paying the fleecers a penny.

 

However, do look up planning permission.  Methinks your next communication with Lidl head office (of course copied onto social media) will be to inform them that they have not respected planning permission with the signage which is a crime, and have invited bandits to harass you, and should the bandits sue you then you will defend the claim and add Lidl as a third party (as well as informing the Old Bill and the press about their criminality).  But you need to be 100% sure so do some planning permission legwork. 

 

 

 

 

[Dave962]

Thanks Dave

 

I think on those 2 main entrance signs, if I really zoom in on the picture it may mentions terms and conditions in one line under the P.

 

Ill check it out tomorrow.

 

I really appreciate your advice. I’m just worried do I still have time to do these extra things with Lidl? I’m happy to do it but just worry my time would lapse on my right to appeal? I think it looks like I have 21 days according to the back of their letter?

 

Ta

[honeybee13]

Don't worry about the deadline, we're highly unlikely to recommend that you appeal. It can make things more difficult for you.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

Definitely don't appeal, would remove POFA protection for keeper. If that camera and pole  along with the sign has no Planning Permission they are knackered, also main sign just check what it says about T & C's, . Ericsbrother might have some advice also when they look in.

[Dave962]

Thanks again all

 

Ive revisited the site again today to find out the remaining information stated on the signs.

 

The 2 x misleading big blue P signs that greet you as you enter...

 

“Private Land, controlled parking area, terms and conditions apply, see notices for details.”

 

The more discreet signs places around the fenced border (I’ve just included the small print here I think you can see the top bit ok from the pics)...

 

”Use of this car park is at the discretion of the landowner or Athena ANPR Ltd., as managers of this car park. Drivers agree ( by their conduct of entering the car park) these terms and conditions with Athena and thereby contractually agree to pay Athena ( the creditor) the charges stated on there sign. Where a parking charge becomes due the registered keepers details may be requested from the DVLA.

 

If a charge of £90 is made the driver agrees to pay within 28 days of it being issued, reduced to £45 if paid within 14 days. Additional parking charges apply for each 24 hr period, or part thereof, that the vehicle remains in breach. Drivers also agree that if they fail to pay a charge within 28 days of it being issued they will pay on an indemnity basis the costs involved in the enforcement and recovery of the charge including any court action.

 

If you do not fully understand and agree to these contractual t & c’s you should immediately leave the car park.

 

An ANPR system is used to record an image of the vehicle and no plate on entering and exiting the car park. We are provided with this info by Lidl, and if we need to charge for use of the car park, we will request the details of the registered keeper from the DVLA. We need this info to determine whether you should be charged for parking and to charges. For further details on how we use and store you’re personal information and your right to access this information, visit our website www.athena-parking.com/data protection or contact our DPO at [email protected] or 0330 403 0123. No liability is accepted for any loss or damage how so ever caused to any person or property whilst in this car park save under statutory exceptions.”

 

 

I also emailed Lidl head office again yesterday, or replied to their original response rather, stating that I would approach the local media with details of my charge, and all the bad publicity this would bring upon a new store - however this time they have not responded to me.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Dave962

[brassnecked]

There is plenty there to chuck back at them when required.

this looks dodgy " Use of this car park is at the discretion of the landowner or Athena ANPR Ltd " That implies Athena has the right to refuse permission to park there to shop in the store looked at in general terms.

[Dave962]

Yeah deffo.

 

I also found it interesting reading it just then, where it says about Lidl providing the info to Athena. I got the impression Lidl wanted nothing to do with it in their response...

 

Re: Parking Charge Notice  Thanks for getting in touch.  I was sorry to learn that you received a parking charge. I appreciate this may have been frustrating for you.  Unfortunately, we are unable to make an appeal on your behalf. This is because all appeals need to be placed in writing directly to Athena ANPR by the appellant. Doing so allows you to retain your right to formally appeal any decisions made by Athena ANPR.  Details of the appeals procedure can be found on the reverse of the Parking Charge Notice or on the Athena ANPR website: www.athena-parking.com.  You can process an appeal via the following methods; - online (https://www.athena-parking.com/appeals/start.asp), - via email ([email protected]) or by post at the below address:  Athena ANPR Ltd PO Box 4758 Ascot SL5 5DJ  When raising your appeal please include the following information:  Parking Charge Notice Number  Vehicle Registration Number  To further support your appeal please attach / enclose any of the applicable following documents: Lidl store receipt or proof of shopping with us  Disabled badge holder evidence  Further documentation which may support your case  Athena will then conduct your appeal and communicate the outcome to you directly in writing.  We hope that your appeal is brought to a speedy conclusion.  Thank you for contacting us

Yours sincerely,  For and on behalf of Lidl Great Britain Limited

[honeybee13]

Don't take Lidl's advice about appealing, they don't seem to understand how this works.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

The signage offers unconditional parking.

The hidden signs say that it is free parking for 90 minutes and then say there is a charge for breaching any of the terms.

Well there are no terms offered to breach so the charge for parking longer than 90 minutes is nothing.

In short the signs are rubbish and meaningless

 

This point should be rammed down Lidl's throats and you al so tell them that it is their land and the agreement of its use is between you and them.They have allowed their agents or employees to breach the GDPR for procerssing your keeper details when there is no lawful reason to do so as the application to the DVLA for your keeper details was granted only because a false declaration was made.

 

Let Lidl know that you intend to sue them for £500 for this breach of the GDPR.

the CEO of Lidl is Christian Harthagel 19 Worple Rd, Wimbledon SW19 4JS and the email they wnat you to use is [email protected]

 

I would also try copying email to each of the directors and would guess at [email protected]

They are listed on CEOemail website or the registration at companies house

 

you are not asking them to make an appeal on your behalf, you are letting them know they are stupid to let these bandits loose on their land and will have to pay the consequences if this continues. Up to them to decide whether to tell Athena to wind its neck in, you will win any court case involving either party and that will cost Lidl a hell of a lot in terms of negative publicity

[Dave962]

Thanks EB HB

 

Just a further update regarding this matter...

 

I sent a response based on your advice to Lidl direct to the extra email addresses, and heard nothing further back from them. Which was interesting as the two that I had sent previous they did respond to.

 

I've also now received another letter from Athena, an 'Overdue Reminder'. 

 

Would you like me to send you a copy through for you to view?

 

"Failure to pay may result in Athena transferring your case to a debt collection company etc..."

 

I've not responded to Athena direct as of yet.

 

Do you think I need to act upon this letter this time at all?

[FTMDave]

Considering that DCAs have no power to do anything as it's not their debt, this is hardly a bloodcurdling threat.

 

"Cough up or we may make you open an envelope".

 

Relax & ignore.

[Dave962]

Ha ta mate.

 

Apparently, "consequently under section 4 of the PoF Act 2012 as the registered keeper of the vehicle, I am liable for the full parking charge..."

[brassnecked]

No you are not if they don't use POFA correctly,  and they usually stuff that up even then there are hurdles, as in the Keeper cannot be forced to name the driver,

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