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    • Hi Guys,   Following in from my 17 page thread, that dates back over ten years, I am starting a new thread, at the suggestion of the site team. My issue relates the a) service charges relating to the Leasehold flat I bought back in 2006 b) a Managing Agent who is of questionable abilities as a manager of our block of flats. The Managing Agent has claimed £6k in fees to which (I think, as does the new Landlord) he was not entitled. I am wanting to get it back, and/or the fees on my account calculating properly which would leave me with a credit balance.  I am recently in receipt of a 4th claim relating to this dispute, with two of the previous three going 'no where'. The other one they won in default on 2011, but I successfully had that set-aside.They have not given me the money back though. It all started due to poor management of the block, and it transpired upon scrutiny that the management arrangements appear to be unenforceable prior to 2014. It's very complicated. This information is required simply posted, and not as a PDF, so here goes:   1.       BlurredFX Service Charge Saga 2.       Sept 2006 a.       In 2006 BFX buys a leasehold flat. His solicitor advises him that Ground Rent is payable to Landlord-one and Service Charges are payable, but to be wary of the service charges, as he is unable to confirm how they are being administrated. b.       BFX is sent a bill for service charges from PQR Managing Agent. BFX enquires as the legitimacy of the service charges, but is unable to get a satisfactory answer. The service charge requests are not complicit with the required legislation – such as the name of the Landlord. They are served in the name of ABC Management Company Ltd c/o PQR Managing Agents. c.       ABC Management Company has two Directors, both residents of the block in which BFX resides and to which this dispute relates. d.       Landlord-one is absent, except for Ground Rent requests. 3.       2006-2009 a.       Despite written and verbal requests, BFX refuses to pay any service charges until ABC Management Company are properly authorised by Landlord-one – because without such, he has no recourse or way to complain. b.       Demands are not complicit with the legislation. c.       The property was not properly maintained. For example, the lease obligations for an internal redecoration every five years had no been met. The obligations to maintain the exterior of the had not been met, and the timber double glazing was starting to rot quite badly. 4.       2008/2009/2010 a.       TUV Managing Agent Ltd buys out PQR Managing Agent (a sole trader, I believe). They seem to operate interchangeably for a few years, using different headed paper along the way. They seem to be interchangeable. It is the same personnel. 5.       June 2009 a.       TUV Managing Agent LTD, on behalf of ABC Management Company Ltd, file a court claim against BFX. [CLAIM2009] b.       BFX asks them to fully particularise their claim, including asking for details of who authorised them to manage the building and various other pertinent questions. 6.       10th August 2009 a.       BFX sends CPR18 – request for information to TUV Managinig Agent c/o ABC Management Company 7.       2009 a.       Hearing is scheduled for Jan 2010 [CLAIM2009] 8.       February 2010 a.       There is a hearing. b.       Ref: [CLAIM2009] c.       From the Court: IT IS ORDERED THAT the claim be stayed to enable the Parties to endeavour to reach a settlement if no application is made to restore by Tuesday 6th April 2010, the claim be struck out 9.       24th March 2010 a.       TUV Managing Agent sends BFX an agreement to sign, agreeing to pay. BFX does not sign the document. 10.   2010 – 30th or 31st March 2010 a.       BFX attends a meeting with a Director of ABC Management Company and Director of TUV Managing Agent. b.       BFX outlines his position, and suggests a verbal agreement to pay from 2006-2010 once the management of the block is properly administrated – my preference being the ‘RTM route’. c.       The other people at the meeting do not appear to understand. 11.   1st April 2010 a.       TUV Managing Agent on behalf of ABC Management Company write to the Court, asking that the claim be restored, claiming BFX has remained silent. b.       Notice of allocation from the Court, dated 15th April, for a hearing in July. 12.   July 2010 a.       On the day, a lady at the Court informs BFX that TUV Managing Agent has been on the phone, and said that BFX has paid the money and to cancel the hearing. b.       BFX had not paid any money at all. c.       Nothing more is heard of [CLAIM2009] 13.   6th October 2010 a.       ABC Management Co c/o TUV Managing Agent send a letter, after the Freehold Reversion of BFX’s block comes up for sale. TUV Managing Agent outline three options – do nothing, RTM, or buy the freehold. b.       BFX opines that it is not good advice, but is ignored. 14.   December 2010 a.       BFX’s health starts to visibly deteriorate. 15.   Late April 2011 a.       BFX is blue-lighted into the regional hospital, as witnessed by Director of ABC Management Company. 16.   Early May 2011 a.       TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company, commence a new claim against BFX – literally within a week or so of BFX going into Hospital! b.       This is [CLAIM2011] 17.   August 2011 a.       TUV Managing Agent and ABC Management Company are awarded Judgement in Default. b.       BFX remains critically ill in Hospital. 18.   September 2011 a.       Letter from BFX’s Mortgage Company-One to BFX b.       “We have been advised by TUV Managing Agent that your Ground Rent and Service Charges of £6k-ish has not been paid.” Iy goes on to say pay them. 19.   September 2011 a.       In reference to [CLAIM2011] a letter from TUV Managing Agent to BFX’s Mortgage Company-One states: b.       “As the managing agents of BFX’s Block, I write to advise you that your client, BFX, is in severe arrears and therefore is in breach of his lease. c.       “A County Court Judgement was served on August 2011 in the sum of £6k-ish. A Copy of the Judgement is enclosed for your reference. d.       “I therefore request that this payment is now made in full by your client within 21 days, failure to do so will result in further action being taken and a Section 146Notice [sic] being served on Mr Piggin” 20.   October 2011 a.       Letter from TUV Managing Agent to BFX’s Mortgage Company-One states: b.       “Further to your letter of 25th October 2011, please find below the details of the bank account to make payment of the outstanding service charge and ground rent for the above property” [BFX’s property] c.       Mortgage Company-one makes a payment to ABC Management Co c/o TUV Managing Agent, for the claim amount. 21.   January 2012 a.       Landlord-one sells his freehold to Landlord-two. BFX receives a letter from Landlord-one’s solicitor. It states: b.       “…we write to advise that the benefit of the receipt of the ground rent payable under such Lease has now been transferred to Landlord-two to whom all future payments of ground rent including all arrears and the amount due from 2st January 2012 shall be payable to and whose receipt shall be a full and absolute discharge under such Lease” 22.   February 2012 a.       Landlord-one sells his freehold to Landlord-two. b.       Landlord-two writes to BFX stating that he owes Ground Rent since 2006. c.       That letter from Landlord-two to BFX also states d.       “While we have no wish to disrupt and current workable management arrangements we do have concerns in that respect as the building is not being managed strictly in accordance with the Lease provisions and although we would have no great objection to ABC Management Company Ltd continuing with the management of the structural and communal areas of the building we would be happier if the present informal arrangement, which could in theory be discontinued at any time by any party, could be formalised either by a Deed of Variation being entered into in connection with each individual leaseholder or by a complete Deed of Variation being entere into by all parties. We hope you will support a Deed of Variation and would request your written views in that respect. e.       “We were in direct communication with PQR Managing Agent prior to completion of our purchase and enclose for your information copy letter written to that firm on 11th January 2012. PQR Managing Agent have confirmed they have never received any ground rent payments and they are raising our ‘insurance concerns’ with X Insurer.” f.        The letter referred to above also asks PQR Managing Agent to make certain material disclosures to X Insurer. g.       In his letter to TUV/PQR Managing Agent, dated 11th of Jan, Landlord-two also states, h.       “As management is current [sic] carried out by you on behalf of ABC Management Company Limited, who are not named in the Lease and therefore maintenance obligations are unenforceable against or by that company, you may wish to give consideration to:” It then proposes a) a deed of variation, or b) Landlord-two becomes a client of TUV Property Management, and long term management is done that way. i.         The letter from Landlord-two continues: j.         “Finally, while we appreciate that you are not authorised to collect ground rent and indeed we assume you have not therefore been collecting ground rent, can you please confirm for the avoidance of doubt that you have never collected any ground rent payments from any leaseholder in connection with this building or, if you have collected any ground rent payments, can you please let us have details of such payments.” 23.   October 2012 a.       BFX makes an application for the Judgement to be set-aside, an account of his being hospitalised almost constantly since April 2011. b.       A hearing is scheduled. 24.   January 2013 a.       There is a hearing, the Judgement against BFX is set-aside. TUV Managing Agent and ABC Management Company do not attend. BFX has until February to file his Defence and Counterclaim, which he does. 25.   March 2013 a.       AQ’s submitted, and hearing scheduled. b.       TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company is ordered to pay the hearing fee. 26.   18th April 2013 a.       Court orders unless TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company pays the fees, the claim shall be struck out. b.       Letter from the Court: BFX’s counterclaim remains listed for May 2013. There is a hearing, and TUV Managing Agent, on behalf of ABC Management Company fail to attend. 27.   May 2013 a.       After a hearing, where TUV Managing Agent and ABC Management Company fail to attend, the Court orders: “The claim be adjourned generally with the liberty to restore on the application of either party.” 28.   2nd half of 2013 and 2014 a.       Various letter from TUV Property Management, and meetings of residents. It is decided by Leaseholders in BFX’s block that we should exercise our ‘right-to-manage’. 29.   17th February 2014 a.       Letter from a solicitor dealing with the RTM progress, it says Landlord-two now has 28 days to file a response. 30.   4th June 2014 a.       BFX Receives a letter from TUV Property Management it states: b.       “Please find enclosed a new standing order form for BFX’s block. c.       “We have opened a new current account for BFX’s block due to the Right to Manage coming into effect in 1st July 2014 d.       “The new standing order is to commence on 1st July 2014…” e.       It continues with pleasantries about cancelling old SO etc. 31.   2nd July 2014 a.       The newly formed ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.3k, the description on the invoice being ‘Account Adjustment: Transfer from previous Management Company’ 32.   2nd July 2014 a.       The newly formed ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.6k, the description on the invoice being ‘Account Adjustment: For period 4th July 2014 – 30th September 2014’ 33.   28th July 20014 (1) a.       ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.5k, having added £12. It states ‘Account Adjustment: Title Register’. b.       IT ALSO SHOWS BFX’s FIRST PAYMENT of 1 month’s service charges to ABC RTM Company Ltd as ‘Payment Received’ 34.   28th July 20014 (2) a.       ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £3.8k, having added £360 court fees. It states ‘Account Adjustment: Court Fees’ 35.   28th July 20014 (3) a.       ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX for £4k, having added £120 in court fees 36.   11th August 2014 a.       The newly formed ABC RTM Company Limited (c/o TUV Managing Agent) sends an invoice to BFX adding another £85. Description: ‘HM Court fee as fee is £205 not £120 – difference’ 37.   August 2014 a.       Following another emergency admission to Hospital for BFX, ABC RTM Company Limited immediately file a claim [CLAIM2014] for alleged arrears from 2011-2014. Approximately £4k. 38.   November 2014 a.       From the Court: Claim [CLAIM2014] stayed until February 2015, by which time the Defendant is to serve his Defence and in default shall file and serve further medical evidence supporting his inability to do the same. 39.   September 2015 a.       Claim stayed until end of October 2015 40.   November 2015 a.       Claim stayed until Jan 2016 41.   8th January 2016 a.       BFX makes an application for summary judgement [of CLAIM2014] that the claim be struck out, as it is a relitigation of [CLAIM2011] 42.   Feb 2016 a.       Transferred to local Court. 43.   31st March 2016 a.       There was a hearing of my application (I think) b.       From the Court, re [CLAIM2014] c.       IT IS ORDERED THAT d.       The hearing of today’s date be adjourned e.       The Claimant to file and serve a fully Particulars (detailed) Particulars of claim [sic] to set out the basis to the claim, entitlement of the Claimant to recover sums from the Defendant, detailing sums recovered and any outstanding payment plus other details which the Claimand may advise to address by 22 april 2016 f.        The Defendant to file and serve a detailed defence addressing the Particulars of Claim in paragraph 2 above by 12 may 2016 g.       If the Defendant wishes the application of today’s date to be relisted (upon consideration of the fully particularised Particulars of Claim), the Defendant should write to the court, at the same time as filing a defence, with a copy of this order, asking for the Court to relist the application for hearing with an estimated length of 1 hour 30 minutes (30 minutes of it being reading time). In the event that the application is relisted, both parties to file and serve detailed statements addressing the subject matter of the application 7 clear days before the hearing. 44.   17th May 2016 a.       From the court: b.       “IT IS ORDERED THAT The Defendants application be relisted in accordance with the order made on the 31st March 2016 on Monday 27th June at 15:30pm with an elh of 30 minutes,not to be heard by telephone” [sic]” 45.   June 2016 a.       I think there was a hearing, possibly. I am looking for the paperwork. I attended the hearing directly from a different regional Hospital to the usual one, where I was being treated for a brain infection. We got our heads bashed together by a clearly infuriated Judge, Judge advised ABC RTM c/o TUV Managing Agents to get a solicitor, tells BFX to be clearer in what he says. Nothing further was heard. Until… 46.   7th April 2017 a.       BFX has an invoice for 1066.00 from TUV Managing Agent c/o ABC RTM Company Ltd 47.   August 2017 a.       BFX mortgage sold from ‘Mortgage Company-one’ to ‘Mortgage Company-two’ 48.   13th September 2017 a.       BFX received an invoice for £5,000 for his share for new windows to BFX’s block. It seemed complicit with s20 LTA 1985 etc. BFX pays £5k. b.       There was a lot of confusion during this process, I am pinning down the paperwork, but it was paid. The total invoice was not split as per the lease – Leaseholders were asked for funds on a per window basis, but the Lease says the total should be summed and divided by the number of units. c.       N.B. BFX’s flat is in a conservation area, and the price reflects expensive windows, as specified by local planners. There were other attempts to put in cheap, nasty windows, but BFX was able to stop this by making informal representations to the local Borough Council – who in turn contacted TUV Managing Agents, who in turn eventually put in a proper planning application for proper windows, which was approved. d.       There was a lot of confusion during this process, I am pinning down the paperwork, but it was paid. The total invoice was not as per the lease – Leaseholders were asked for funds on a per window basis, but the Lease says the total should be summed and divided by the number of units. 49.   12th October 2017 a.       BFX receives invoice for service charges (or statement of account): £4,800 approx. No payments are made by BFX 50.   25h September 2018 a.       BFX receives an invoice (or statement of account) for a total of £492. b.       It appears they have decided not to collect this amount 51.   March 2020 a.       Claim2020 from ABC RTM Company Limited c/o Company Director (not TUV Property Management) for £890 plus £70 Court fee. BFX has not been paying his fees because the management of the block is terrible.
    • Yes I know.  We would like the story posted up plainly on a post in a new thread with no attachment simply a step-by-step account of what happened and what led to the litigation. I think we can understand why this thread has gone on for 18 pages
    • I think he's hoping the attached pdf would be a satisfactory starting point for a new thread?
    • Please start a new thread so that you can post up a nice brief bullet pointed chronology of what happened which led to the litigation.
    • Hope it all goes well for her CB, let us know how she gets on.
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CharlieBB

CTAX and parking fine debts and bailiffs advice please

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Hi I’m new here so not sure if I’m posting in the right place! 


Long story short

 

I separated from my now ex husband 2 years ago he ran off and did the dirty after 20 years marriage 3 children and left me with a load of debt unfortunately all in my name £33,000 in total now being a single parent and only being able to work part time

 

as my youngest has special needs 

my income really is mainly from benefits 

he receives dla high rate and full mobility because of his medical needs.

Its a very big struggle especially trying to pay everything run a home and 3 children 

going without all the time 

 

added stress with

debt collectors and now

bailiffs for council tax,

shop direct account and

a parking fine hadn’t realised mobility badge had expired! 


I’ve read loads of advice on here  and am considering filing bankruptcy 

 

my question is

can these bailiff debts be included in a bankruptcy or can they still chase me for the money. 


I just can’t see a way out at all what I owe will take me years and years to pay back 


life is so stressful 😢

thank you in advance for any advice given.

sorry it’s a little long winded! 

 

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forget the DCA's

forget the shop direct CAT debts they are not a priority - drop them to £1PCM!!

start another thread for those but NO you don't need to go BK/DRO/IVA for consumer credit.

 

you must deal with the debts with the bailiffs lets use this thread for that.

what stage are you at

have you had a notice of enforcement yet?

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Hi thanks for replying so quick 

Had  payment plans set up they keep demanding more money I’ve sent them my monthly expenditure that shows everything and what I have to live on 

never aloud them into my home 

Xmas came I missed a payment so partly my own fault just didn’t want the kids going without! 
 

 

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That's very understandable at Christmas. Don't start blaming herself. I think you're doing very well under the circumstances.

Which bailiffs are you dealing with here? Which company?


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Thank you 

2 with rossendales 

mans 1 from my local county court 

3 minutes ago, CharlieBB said:

Thank you 

2 with rossendales 

mans 1 from my local county court 

Sorry parking fine! Local county court 

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Sorry, what is "mans 1" mean?

Have you contacted Rossendale's? Have you told them that you are vulnerable and that you have very difficult circumstances? I think you should do that first thing tomorrow.

Have you contacted your local council? Have you told them that you are vulnerable? I think also you should do that tomorrow. I think you should explain how difficult it is and also that there is a disability apart from the fact that you are a single parent and you are struggling even with priority debts.

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I've had lots of experience with this unfortunately and the best way to deal with it

 

Use your local Councillor, find their details on Google, Call and email them. They will get the bailiffs off your back immediately and either give you a break from payments or an affordable arrangement.

 

You should be classified as vulnerable too, come back here to tell us how it went


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But in addition, I suggest that you call Rossendale's immediately and explain your vulnerability. Do this in addition to the councillor.

The councillor might take a little longer but it is more likely to be a permanent fix. However, if you explain the situation to Rossendale's, you may be able to get a short-term remedy – quickly.

Do both – belt and braces


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Yes to the above too. My wife was on Chemo,  when B&S had our Council Tax, and we were 2 years behind.  The bailiffs did ignore us, but the collections dept called them off.


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I spoke to rossendales by telephone 2 weeks ago 

they are aware of my vulnerability  

 

one is for £225.00 and I’ve got to pay that in full

was due on the 27th just gone

 

I told them I wouldn’t have that amount but they wouldn’t except anything less

told them I knew I would break it to that had no response 

 

the second amount is the bigger one 995.00 paid 25.00 yesterday as agreed

I have to call back to arrange to pay more next month as the other one should have been paid in full by then 

 

should I just pay what I can afford on the missed payment one?  

they put me off calling because of how bullyish they are so thinking maybe right a letter.

 

with all my other debt and the amount I owe and the stress it’s causing that’s why I’ve thought maybe bankruptcy

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Well in that case certainly follow the advice given by site team member @London1971 and who happens. I think you are correct to write a letter to Rossendale is to put it very firmly on record that not only are you vulnerable but also that you have tried to contact them and that they haven't followed their vulnerability guidelines


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I had the best results from my local councillor always, I also copied in the elected head of the council too, who really had my back too.  

 

These are people who hate poverty and want to help.  A lot of them really don't like bailiffs

 

 

 

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We could do with some help from you.

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2 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Well in that case certainly follow the advice given by site team member @London1971 and who happens. I think you are correct to write a letter to Rossendale is to put it very firmly on record that not only are you vulnerable but also that you have tried to contact them and that they haven't followed their vulnerability guidelines

Thank you I will get onto letter writing this evening 

mane again thank you for the advice I will check back with my outcome 

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Make sure you renew the Blue badge for the disabled child, and display it in any car, the |bailiffs might try to take control of it Do you have a Motability Vehicle for them? as they are not allowed to seize them, also they have No Right Of Entry for Council tax. but will clamp a car, but aren't allowed to clamp a Motability Lease vehicle .


We could do with some help from you.

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I’ve renewed it now had such a lot going on the past couple of years my heads been all over the place not to mention sleepless nights 

 

yes we have a mobility car thank goodness! 


thank you for your advice 

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Councillor should be able to work very quickly to get them off your back. Make sure you call as well as Email.  They have huge powers, that can override Revenue Collections and Bailiffs.

 

Make this your number one priority.


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Definitely good advice London1971, the council wouldn't like more evidence of how the council Revenue dept and theit bailiffs treat impoverished can't pays  if it leaked into the press, plus was punted at election time to bite the councillor on the bum, so the Councillor will want to sort this pronto If this was a Council Parking ticket and ther was entitlement to the BB, might be worth asking if the Councillor can help you get the parking one quashed as £305 of that one will be the bailiffs fees.


We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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just so you understand the complete bailiff picture here a bit more clearly, as you appear to be p'haps falling for some of the things bailiff regularly intimate or threaten as the truth, just to scare you...

 

your priority here is the fine.

so might be best to concentrate on that one.

that could go south, but its VERY rare for magistrates to grant forced entry.

but they can't add anymore charges than they already have.

 

as for the CTAX one.

you get charged £75 with the Notice of Enforcement giving you 7 days to settle.

then there is a visit, that costs another £235 in fees , making a total of £310.

that is ALL they can add to that one.

there is NO right of forced entry with CTAX.

 

so don't fall for the threats on either one of you must pay more/i'm gonna do this etc etc.

 

now are you paying these, can you do so without further ringing the bailiffs themselves and getting threatened?

 

as for the other debts you speak of.

as I said earlier, drop them down to £1PCM there nowt they can do, they are not a priority.

give yourself a financial buffer to better deal with getting these bailiff ones off you back.

 

dx

 


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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Yup I got my Bailiff fees cancelled but not the liability order.

 

I ended up paying everything back by earnings attachment, a few years later. It took 3 years to pay it off!

 

But by that time my situation had improved and it wasn’t a problem


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@CharlieBB If you need help wording an email to your councillor , let me know, I will send you a template.

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We could do with some help from you.

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2 hours ago, London1971 said:

@CharlieBB If you need help wording an email to your councillor , let me know, I will send you a template.

Thank you that would be very helpful of you 😊

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Message sent.  

 

Bear in mind it was a slightly different problem to you.  The council had simply ignored the problem.  The councillor sorted it out within an hour and I had an affordable amount to pay.

 

It's also worth you explaining that you have medical and motability certificates  if necessary.

 

Let me know how you get on

 

 


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