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    • Are you or do you wish to use the vehicle until we succeed with arguing and you succeed in VT?
    • Hi I hope all are ok in these trying times. I assume most of us will be in the same situation with employment etc.   I am obviously still intending to follow through my complaint against MB. However I do have to make decisions as I have found myself as will most people at this time left with a reduced minimal income, with all I can forsee is an impending up hill struggle for the forceable future.   So not sure what, if any options I still have, I am presuming VT was only an option earlier on and a court CO excludes that option,    I cant continue to honour the finance payments and cant even begin to estimate any timescales I would be again financially stable.   im trapped but want, no I need to get rid of MB all together, they can have the car and I learned the expensive way!   MB recently emailed a letter (which is copied below) in it they refer to a recent termination, this is the part that is very confusing as its my understanding they terminated the agreement in March 17.   They also inform they have placed the collections on hold, but then heres the cheeky bit, they do however want me to store the vehicle, tax and insure it, as per the agreement (the agreement that they already state was terminated) until they continue with their collection process;   Due to the Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic currently affecting the UK and wider world, we’re emailing to update you on what will now happen regarding the collection of your vehicle, following the termination of your Moneybarn vehicle finance agreement.   We won’t be collecting the vehicle at this time Normally, following termination of your agreement, we would arrange for an inspection and collection of the vehicle. However because of the current Government imposed lockdown, we are not currently able to collect vehicles until further notice.   What will happen next? Nothing for the moment. We’ll contact you as soon as there are any developments in the Government’s stance and we know that we’re able to resume our normal vehicle collection activity.   What do you need to do? We would appreciate if you can please keep the vehicle taxed and insured for the time being, as per the terms and conditions of your finance agreement. We hope this information is helpful and clear. Please stay safe and well, and if you need to contact us with any questions, please check out the latest information on the best way to reach us at   So they state termination, then expect to lay down instructions for me to comply with as per my finance agreement T&Cs. To look after the vehicle that they do intend to continue collection of.   If everythings terminated and in other words I have no right to the vehicle, Im not prepared to comply with instructions in line with a non existent agreement (I dont have to) and have a good mind to charge them storage.   However l would much rather just leave the car, send off V5 to change ownership and be done with it and concentrate on getting justice for their mistreatment.   
    • No it isn't funny, but there have been murmurs on Social media, dfesn't take much for twitterati and FaceBork to go off on one. Some in our area have been on about shooting the Goats in case they spread the virus, people in a panic are unpredictable.
    • If she has had a note from the NHS saying she is vulnerable and should shield, then she should stay at home, and there are special regulations for this   If not, she has choices a) go to work; asking for a copy of the risk assessment, and how she will be able to be at less risk than usual b) see a GP about her stress and get signed off c) resign   Lots of people are anxious about the current situation. Lots of people also work alone in offices or far away from people or at home.     What people don't get to do, is expect their employer to keep paying them in full, for no work, because they are anxious. So, she needs to choose. I think b) seems right for her, but tat's just based on what you have said, and no idea what her job is.
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aaroh

Got SJP after GDPR

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Honestly I will declare it

its all about me keeping my job and food on the table.

Just worried I could be marched off sight and that is that.

 

It was either I plead Guilty ( Get a criminal record) 

Plead not guilty and still (get a criminal record as i dont have a leg to stand on)

 

I was hoping for the best case scenrio, avoid the record avoid the embarracement. Gosh i hate stella rather bottle of red wine 

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11 hours ago, aaroh said:

Now the after I sign my plea ill need to declare it to NSV about the offence hopefully its ok or ill lose my job.

 

Millions (literally) of people commit speeding offences every year. If every one of them lost their job as a result those millions would be unemployed. I know of few jobs where a single speeding conviction would result in dismissal.

 

Should you be unfortunate enough to be in this position again simply follow the process as laid out in the paperwork.

Don't get smart and start prattling on about your (mistaken) rights under GDPR or whatever.

 

As you have seen, by the time you've established your rights correctly you will face a court hearing.

You can ask for "photographs to help identify the driver" before you return your driver nomination form (though that does not stop the 28 day clock measuring the period in which you have to respond).

 

Don't ask for "evidence" as it may be taken that you are disputing the matter and out-of-court disposals (far and away the most favourable option) may not be offered. You have no entitlement to evidence unless the matter goes to court.

 

Most forces will provide such photos (though they don't have to) by giving you a link to follow.

They rarely help in identifying the driver because their purpose is to identify the vehicle.

 

Identifying the driver is your responsibility and if you fail to do so without a valid defence you commit a more serious offence which carries a hefty fine, six points and an endorsement code that will see your insurance premiums rocket.

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2 hours ago, Man in the middle said:

 

Millions (literally) of people commit speeding offences every year. If every one of them lost their job as a result those millions would be unemployed. I know of few jobs where a single speeding conviction would result in dismissal.

 

Should you be unfortunate enough to be in this position again simply follow the process as laid out in the paperwork.

Don't get smart and start prattling on about your (mistaken) rights under GDPR or whatever.

 

As you have seen, by the time you've established your rights correctly you will face a court hearing.

You can ask for "photographs to help identify the driver" before you return your driver nomination form (though that does not stop the 28 day clock measuring the period in which you have to respond).

 

Don't ask for "evidence" as it may be taken that you are disputing the matter and out-of-court disposals (far and away the most favourable option) may not be offered. You have no entitlement to evidence unless the matter goes to court.

 

Most forces will provide such photos (though they don't have to) by giving you a link to follow.

They rarely help in identifying the driver because their purpose is to identify the vehicle.

 

Identifying the driver is your responsibility and if you fail to do so without a valid defence you commit a more serious offence which carries a hefty fine, six points and an endorsement code that will see your insurance premiums rocket.

That is a fair point and noted thank you for your help. 

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Thats great just noticed though the SJP was served 6 months after the NIP was filed 

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Their obligation is to lodge the papers with the court within 6 months of the alleged offence.

The court can then issue the papers to you whenever they get round to them (though you might claim unfairness if there was a delay by the court that was so excessive as to be 'manifestly unfair' .....

 

Did they lodge the papers with the court within 6 months of the alleged offence?

How long was any subsequent delay by the court?.

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The NIP was received on 7/08/2019

I returned it on 8/08/2018 along with GDPR.

 

The prosecution witness statement was signed the 18/01/2020

papers received 24/01/2020

allowing for deemed service of 2 days each way id say there an about 6 months 

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What was the date of the alleged offence and what was the date on the SJPN? Nothing else matters.

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Alleged offence 28/07/2019

SJPN Posting Date 17/01/2020

 

 

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Actually just calculated it again its just under 6 months by 11 days 

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So they definitely laid it before the court within 6 months AND their wasn’t an excessive delay at the court.... we aren’t talking “laid at the court at 6 months and a day” or “laid at the court at 5 months 27 days, and the court losing it for a year”...

 

No loophole there

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Indeed not. "Out-of-time" prosecutions are extremely rare.

 

With the introduction of the SJ procedure an automatic system was introduced which, simultaneously, produces a "written charge" (which is the document that effectively begins court proceedings) and the SJPN.

 

The written charge is usually transmitted electronically to the court office and the listing department returns a date for the matter to go before a SJ.

 

The SJPN is then populated with the hearing date and is sent to the defendant (together with an evidence pack).

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Filled out the guilty please and means paperwork.

 

Having talked to a solicitor he advised we could goto the first stage whatever stage that is to obtain the evidence they wished to rely on and plead guilty.

 

I didnt like the gist of it seems like he was looking after a representation and soon the cost mounts up.

With all the reading up ive done over the days ive decided to make peace with it. 

 

Thank you all guys one final question though should i write anything in the guilty plea section?

Definately no sob story

 

 

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There's very little point to be honest. Sentencing for speeding is quite prescriptive and there's rarely anything to be said that will influence the court.

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do I have to submit means form i.e. income and expenditure?

 

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Yes. You should have been sent a form MC100. If the court has no details of your means it will probably impose a fine based on a default figure of £440pw Relevant Weekly Income.

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rather 440£ ..  so i dont have to! thanks for your help though.

 

Donation made!

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Nobody seems to have mentioned this even though it's in the thread title and people might search for it thinking it was a "cunning plan".  (Sorry if I have missed a mention).

 

Surely GDPR was a non-starter from the outset because the OP is asking for evidence of a (potential) criminal offence?  I'm certainly no expert, but I thought that was an exception to having to comply with a GDPR request?

 

It's a great pity (although perhaps not surprising) that upon getting a s172 request people don't seem to realise that they are just being asked to name the driver and they aren't being prosecuted for anything yet.  They'll see the evidence if and when they think they are not guilty and want their day in court.

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Made a guilty please fined 84+32+85=£201 and 3 points

I did however mention in the mitigation section though that " I did not realise asking for a photographic evidence would mean i would incriminate myself, It was clear this police force is not in line with others around the country."

 

Lesson learned 

Edited by aaroh

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On 01/02/2020 at 17:45, Manxman in exile said:

Nobody seems to have mentioned this even though it's in the thread title and people might search for it thinking it was a "cunning plan".  (Sorry if I have missed a mention).

 

Surely GDPR was a non-starter from the outset because the OP is asking for evidence of a (potential) criminal offence?  I'm certainly no expert, but I thought that was an exception to having to comply with a GDPR request?

 

It's a great pity (although perhaps not surprising) that upon getting a s172 request people don't seem to realise that they are just being asked to name the driver and they aren't being prosecuted for anything yet.  They'll see the evidence if and when they think they are not guilty and want their day in court.

Cunning plan or not a complaint has been made to ICO awaiting outcome.

Edited by aaroh

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Good luck but I can't see the ICO upholding a GDPR complaint that the police did not release evidence of an alleged criminal offence to the person alleged of committing that offence.

 

Let us know what the ICO says.

Edited by Manxman in exile

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On 15/02/2020 at 09:18, aaroh said:

Cunning plan or not a complaint has been made to ICO awaiting outcome.

 

It's all a bit academic but to what end are you doing this?

 

You mention "I did not realise asking for a photographic evidence would mean i would incriminate myself".

What makes you think that it does?

 

The issue surrounding keepers of vehicles being asked to name the driver at the time of an alleged offence was settled in 2007 when Idris Francis and Gerard O'Halloran took their cases to the European Court of Human Rights. That court ruled against them and determined that keepers and drivers do have an obligation and that such an obligation does not fall foul of the Convention on Human Rights.

 

If you believe the Information Commissioner is going to rule that police forces have an obligation to disclose their evidence under GDPR when they already have such an obligation under the Criminal Procedure Rules I think you may be out of luck.

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