@DVLAgovuk bullies cancelled my direct debit and fined me for the privilage **WON JUST HAD TO PAY £31**

[Joniebear]

hi any help on this would be appreciated

 

• purchased car from dealer march 2018
• set up direct debit for tax (giving name address email and phone number at the same time)
• check dd went out one month later which it did.
• forgot about it and moved on with life
• June 2019 (15 months on) i wake up to find over night my car had be clamped due to not paying tax
• Call DVLA they tell me they never 'received' the V5 from the dealer so the car had no registered keeper. because of this they stopped the direct debit after taking it for 12 months with no warning to me.
• to get the car unclamped I paid £150 fine and paid for new tax straight away (before they would remove the clamp) at the same time on the recommendation of the DVLA i sent a V62 so they could register the car to me and send me a new V5.
• 2 months later I get a fine for none payment of tax and the missing tx (£165)

 

the DVLA cancelled the direct debit with no warning yet im stuck with a fine after already paying for the clamp to be removed!

 

i appealed and got a generic 'its your fault' letter back and threatening court action if i dont pay it.

 

would I, and common sense stand a chance against the DVLA in Court?

 

ps and as an aside it was a temp car bought to tow a caravan 2 days later i scrapped it for £130, if i had been better informed i should of just let them tow it away.

[BankFodder]

Can you find us the wording of the law/statute which requires you pay this tax and the penalty for not paying it, please.

Post a link.

 

Then we can better understand your position

 

Also, the rules relating to any duty the dealer might have to inform DVLA - and also relating to any duty you might have to ensure that it has been done

 

Clearly the dealer will have had a contractual duty but there may be a legal duty as well.  Of course the dealer may merely say that he did send it off and that it was lost in the post.

 

It is surprising that DVLA didn't send out a warning to someone.  If they did then it would have gone to the dealer unless it was still in the previous owner's name - which for a car of that value is highly likely

 

My instinct is that you should defend - but we need to see the rules

[dx100uk]

what written record have you got that the road tax payment at the time of the unclamping went against the correct VRN, that should sort the issue.

 

[BankFodder]

Good point

 

[dx100uk]

well carefully reading the 1st post makes me wonder other 'assumed' conclusions..

 

how was the OP able to pay against the car tax without the 11 digit code from the v5c in 1st place for the car?

was the car even taxed for 2018/19...if not what's the money gone against?

 

did the op get the email ack of the V62?

did the op get the new V5C through in their name?

both of the above were in june, !!

did the op chase these up?

 

the DVLA automatically stops DD after 12mts as you can only tax a car for 12mts..

 

 

[Offroader]

The  OP was clamped for having an untaxed car on the highway , clamp removal fee + tax from the first of the month . And the second fine is the late licencing  penalty of £80 and back tax from when the first 12 months ran out  to when the tax was renewed .

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Offroader

[Willyeckerslyke]

In the same position, bought car from dealer May 2018 set up DD only for DVLA to cancel 12 months later due to no registered keeper.

 

Their website says you can not tax a car without registered keeper.

 

Have complained via their procedure ( still ongoing) but they still want to take me to court for penalty £93.

 

Have had a reply which states their system allows for third party to tax car and that there is no requirement for a registered keeper.

 

So if no keeper needed why not continue with DD?

[BankFodder]

That is a very good point. I'm still waiting to be linked to the relevant regulations.

[Manxman in exile]

My understanding is you can set up a DD to tax a vehicle without being the RK, but if you are paying by DD, the DD will not renew unless there is a RK.

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-direct-debit  and  https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-direct-debit/renewing

 

You have to keep a reminder in a calendar or something.  If paying by DD the website says you must contact DVLA if you don't receive a reminder letter or email.

 

I don't know what the law actually says, but the way the DVLA operates, it's probably a mistake to "forget about it and move on with life".  Always keep a record of tax expiry.

 

EDIT: I presume you can set up a DD to cover the situation where you buy a vehicle and need to tax it before you are processed as the new RK?  Thereafter you have to be the RK for autorenewal

Edited January 25, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Manxman in exile]

I wonder if DVLA have ever prosecuted in these circumstances and got a conviction? 

 

(I am not saying it would be safe for the OP to run the risk.)

[dx100uk]

roadtax is only ever for that year - 12mts whomever pays or is the rk.

 

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

51 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

roadtax is only ever for that year - 12mts whomever pays or is the rk.

 

 

 

 

You may be right in that you can't, for instance, pay two years in advance.  But you can set up a DD which, on my reading of the above links, will automatically renew if the vehicle has a RK, and the DVLA will email or write to the RK confirming when the new payments will be taken.  If you have a DD and don't get such an email or letter from the DVLA, you should contact them as something is wrong.

 

If the OP was never recorded as the RK (whether that's his fault or the dealer's) then the DD he set up won't renew - or at least that's how I read that link.  I may be wrong.

 

Re that other thread: is that arguing that it's just a civil debt or that it's summary only and an information has to be laid within six months?  (Sorry - I'm a bit dense!).  If the latter, I suppose many of these will be continuing offences?

 

Also regarding that other thread, I do wonder if people ever actually get prosecuted and convicted...  Although I would not want to test that.

[dx100uk]

Doesnt matter who pays a dd.

but it most certainly does not ever nor can ever run for more than 12mts period.

 

it as with road tax must be renewed annually.

 

its a summary offence, they have 6 mts to bring it from the date of the initial offence date

[Manxman in exile]

Maybe we're splitting hairs or we're at cross-purposes?

 

The reason for the OP's problem is that he doesn't have the V5C (or there's no RK with the DVLA) which is why the DD he thought would automatically renew did not.  And they don't send a reminder in those circumstances.  So it's a driver's responsibility to ensure that their tax is up to date - especially if they don't get an email or letter from DVLA confirming that the DD has renewed.  I presume we are agreed that it's up to the driver/keeper to keep on top of this and not just forget about it?

 

"Renewing your vehicle tax

Your Direct Debit for vehicle tax will renew automatically when it’s due to run out.

You’ll get an email or letter telling you when your payments will be taken.

You will not be sent a vehicle tax reminder letter (V11).

Do not tax your vehicle again. If you do, you’ll be charged twice.

The vehicle keeper must have a vehicle logbook (V5C) before the vehicle tax is renewed.

If the vehicle keeper does not have a V5C

Your Direct Debit will not automatically renew if there’s no vehicle keeper in DVLA’s records.

You can tell DVLA who the vehicle keeper is online.

If you do not get an email or letter when your vehicle tax runs out, you should contact DVLA."

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-direct-debit/renewing

[dx100uk]

quite probably...

[dx100uk]

no I was wrong then, it does renew.

shows you the lasttime I did it then..

 

I know I got told off once that I hadn't renewed..when I said nothing had changed, he bod on the phone said you must respond to the email by giving the 11 digit code on the dvla website for it to happen.

 

dx

 

 

[Willyeckerslyke]

On 24/01/2020 at 17:11, Joniebear said:

Call DVLA they tell me they never 'received' the V5 from the dealer so the car had no registered keeper. because of this they stopped the direct debit after taking it for 12 months with no warning to me.

 

 Interpretation act applies, they cannot rebut presumed delivery.

 

On 24/01/2020 at 17:11, Joniebear said:

forgot about it and moved on with life

 

No statutary requirement to chase for any info

[Manxman in exile]

Errr...they cannot rebut presumed delivery of what?  What has the OP sent to the DVLA within the context of the Interpretation Act that applies here?  (If you know, please share with us).

 

The site I've quoted clearly states when a DD will not renew.

 

I will go so far as to agree with you as to the question:  "I've notified the DVLA of a change of details.  They have not acknowledged the change.  Am I obliged to do anything more?"    I agree that that is a very good question.

 

But it doesn't apply here as the OP "forgot all about it and got on with their life".  A mistake.

[Willyeckerslyke]

Sorry I thought that the dealer had "sent" the notification of change of keeper either electronically or by snail mail.

 

besides that I may be naive but surely the KISS strategy would be best in these situations i.e. If there was no keeper on record at the time of the alleged offence, as evidenced by the cancellation / non renewal of DD, then how can anyone be penalised/prosecuted for an offence?

[Manxman in exile]

I see what you mean.  I had assumed the dealer had not done so.  But maybe they did and it got lost in the post or DVLA have lost it themselves.  Perhaps the OP should check with the dealer to see if they have any evidence?

 

I also see what you mean about "who do you prosecute?" when the reason for the DD not renewing is because there's no recorded Registered Keeper!  I wonder how often that happens(?).  I'm sure the legislation must provide for such a circumstance, but it would be nice to know the answer.

[Manxman in exile]

See this almost identical thread on MSE

 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=6062983&highlight=road+tax+no+registered+keeper#topofpage

 

Unfortunately the OP did not come back with how it was resolved.  The view seemed to be that the OP should have been aware of the problem (never received V5, DD payments stopped) and should just pay up.  Could risk DVLA going to court but would quite likely cost more.  Unlikely to be able to claim against the dealer as although their mistake, OP should have been on top of it.  (#14 and #20).

[Willyeckerslyke]

Further to my post on this thread,

I have had numerous communications to and from Dvla still sticking to "your fault".

 

Escalated to complaints to no avail 

Escalated to Chief Exec similar answers.

Asked to be referred to independent complaint assessor.

 

Mean while receive court summons yesterday( 28/02/2012) for appearance on 23/03/2012.

 

Today received letter from Dvla saying if I want, I could pay back tax owed (£31) with no penalty, instead of court .

RESULT!

[Manxman in exile]

Well done.

 

I do wonder if you have the persistency to keep on arguing the toss with the DVLA, whether they eventually just give up.

 

Bit like some council parking tickets which get as far as an adjudicator (the council counting on people eventually paying up) but the council never show up at the tribunal because they know they've got no case.

[dx100uk]

well done

 

thread title update to help others.

 

dx