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1 hour ago, brassnecked said:

Of course they haven't factored in the False Positives either  the App is far from foolproof due to the Bluetooth tech used. 

 

 

 

Too true, one of daughters friends is one of those who installed app and both she ond O/H kept getting the 'you have been in close contact .. every time they went home to their terraced house with apparently next door having tested positive.

They switched it off.

 

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement a Border + Visas to access a lorry park in Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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exactly TJ happens when 2 cars pass as well.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Point is TJ  Ceredigion put their own Test & Trace and systems in, so kept infections down, had Wales followed that way, we wouldn't be in such a mess now cardiff bay Labour   doesn't understand or listen to  anything from North of Merthyr.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Just now, brassnecked said:

Point is TJ  Ceredigion put their own Test & Trace and systems in, so kept infections down, had Wales followed that way, we wouldn't be in such a mess now

 

Isnt that exactly whats happened in England?

Local test and trace once they started being used, after being furloughed - works better with less funding than handcock and Sercos Tory pals fleece the taxpayer system

 

 Can't argue that putting in something (pretty much anything) other than a Tory pay their pals to do as little as possible at high cost and avoid FOI requests system is the right choice.

- Although far too few in the whole of the UK did. Thats not isolated to Wales. Even Scotlands hasn't been perfect albeit far better.

Its not an easy thing to do, in a UK that is driven as it is by Johnson, Gove and Handcock crap spouting.

 

But, that aside, what has that got to do with the M4,

let alone that talking options with Welsh businesses is anything other than the RIGHT thing to do,

or even that imposing a circuit breaker lockdown is wrong (however late) in an attempt to save Christmas

- not that its likely to succeed but the attempt has to be made

 

LET ALONE that Tories have your interests, or anyone but their own at heart ..

 

LET ALONE that any of that could or should be used to try to run a 'right wing ERG/Trumpette cheerleader BS SOUNDBITE' on the far greater disaster of human driven climate change

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement a Border + Visas to access a lorry park in Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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It sadly is quite common for the extreme BS spinners (not you BN) to tag their lies onto something that is arguably true and certainly bares thought - thereby giving it unwarranted credibility by association

 

Corbynites do it just as much as the right wing fanatic crap spinners. it shouldn't be tolerated from either, in fact should be challenged at every turn IMO..

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement a Border + Visas to access a lorry park in Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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3 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I see they're going to give the police details of people who've tested positive.

 

As people have said on Twitter, rather than trust the public and send round local public health to support them, they're going to send the police to enforce self-isolation. [Assuming they have the time.]

 

Opinion is that this will deter people from being tested in the first place and their contact details will be lost to the authorities.

 

I wonder how specific the permissions will be and if they’ll ever be revoked.

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Just now, hightail said:

I wonder how specific the permissions will be and if they’ll ever be revoked.

 

An absolutely cracking point that HT

 

Its also likely that the police wont do anything with it - neither the will or the resources,

but who else is getting it ?

 

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement a Border + Visas to access a lorry park in Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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1 minute ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Its also likely that the police wont do anything with it - neither the will or the resources,

Not for its intended purpose maybe but once the door has been opened a crack it’s hard to close again.

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Wouldn't have time in Wales too busy defending the Border for El Presidente Drakeford.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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soon be part of the confederation of Atlantic states ...

All the UK except the free port of Kent and part of Peterborough

Edited by tobyjugg2

Why the populist problem with customs checks to cross the Irish sea to meet International agreements and Law

... when Johnson is happy to implement a Border + Visas to access a lorry park in Kent?

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris 'The Liar' Johnsons word is not worth the paper its written on

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6 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

 

 

As people have said on Twitter, rather than trust the public and send round local public health to support them, they're going to send the police to enforce self-isolation. [Assuming they have the time.]

 

 

 

 

But the public can't be trusted. Less than 20% are properly isolating when asked to do so.

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2 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

 

But the public can't be trusted. Less than 20% are properly isolating when asked to do so.

How do you know that?  At best it can only be an estimate.  The vast majority of those who should self isolate are not tested or known to any system so where does that figure come from?

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The MSM said so?  Larry the No 10 cat is more trustworthy.  The original computer models were based on a Flu Plan so did they allow for SARS in their modelling?

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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36 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

 

But the public can't be trusted. Less than 20% are properly isolating when asked to do so.

 

So how do you think it should be organised, cj?

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, hightail said:

How do you know that?  At best it can only be an estimate.  The vast majority of those who should self isolate are not tested or known to any system so where does that figure come from?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/11/less-than-20-of-people-in-england-self-isolate-fully-sage-says

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That states Sage 'think' that's the case, or at least they did over a month ago as it's an old article.  Sage is made up of individuals who have been advising government through this and either their advice has been ignored by those in charge or it hasn't worked - take your pick.  One way or another they can't afford to be at fault and the government will never admit they might have made mistakes so the only people left to blame are the public.

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14 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

 

So how do you think it should be organised, cj?

 

Unlike most people here I don't pretend I know what the answer is, but I think I've got a pretty good idea of what it isn't.

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4 minutes ago, hightail said:

That states Sage 'think' that's the case, or at least they did over a month ago as it's an old article. 

 

Lol.

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Well we know how Mark Drakeford thinks it should be done,  he'd lock down Wales until next year if he thought Sunak would cough up the gelt to pay for it but Wales is in more of a shambles than England. As health is a devolved responsibilitythey could have done like Ceredigion in Mid Wales,  where it has been controlled effectively, but no they bought into the Dido/Serco/Sitel muppetry. Local Track trace isolate treat each outbreak according to its dynamic, one size doesn't fit all.  the big risk is to all other serious illness and conditions like cancer, put on the back burner to "protect" the NHS that is now the NCS.  Hope Drakeford is ready for all the mental health issues coming from lonliness and hopelessness, where people are really scared for lives and jobs.

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In terms of how to handle the pandemic in the UK, the Observer leader has some good suggestions. Not new to us but practical.

 

'It ignored early pleas from public health experts to build a system based on the expertise and effectiveness of local public health teams; it instead chose to award multimillion-pound contracts to run mass call centres to companies with a dreadful track record of delivery. Only after months of failures and delays have ministers reconsidered this approach. Even as it has spent £12bn on an ineffective system, the government has failed to provide those required to self-isolate for 14 days with adequate financial support, meaning many simply cannot afford to do so. The result is a shambles of a system that the government’s scientific advisers conclude is only having a marginal impact on transmission.'

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/the-observer-view-on-a-britain-divided-by-coronavirus

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Agree HB they wasted valuable time and money on known losers.

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2 hours ago, brassnecked said:

they wasted valuable time and money on known losers

To be fair, although they can’t be forgiven for the outrageous ransacking of the public purse to line the pockets of their cronies I do understand how they could latch on to a hope of technology being the answer.  Science = technology these days.  You could tell Boris wanted to believe it as he touted each new hope which never materialised - as did the public.  It’s almost beyond our comprehension in a modern world that there’s no magic bullet.

 

Unfortunately it blinded government to the realities on the ground, something local public health teams coped with much better with impressive results.  

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9 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

In terms of how to handle the pandemic in the UK, the Observer leader has some good suggestions. Not new to us but practical.

 

'It ignored early pleas from public health experts to build a system based on the expertise and effectiveness of local public health teams; it instead chose to award multimillion-pound contracts to run mass call centres to companies with a dreadful track record of delivery. Only after months of failures and delays have ministers reconsidered this approach. Even as it has spent £12bn on an ineffective system, the government has failed to provide those required to self-isolate for 14 days with adequate financial support, meaning many simply cannot afford to do so. The result is a shambles of a system that the government’s scientific advisers conclude is only having a marginal impact on transmission.'

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/the-observer-view-on-a-britain-divided-by-coronavirus

 

I'm assuming you're posting in response to me - it would be genuinely helpful if you would use the quote function rather than leaving people to guess.

 

As a left wing newspaper the Observer isn't going to provide either public health expertise or impartial opinion is it? The only 'practical' suggestion there is to ask the taxpayer to shell out more money, which is par for the course for an organisation who's own finances even the BBC described as a ''horror show'' yet seems to think it has a the standing to carry on asking people to subsidise it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Does anything in this blogpost hold water then CJ?

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87546

 

its been posted here before about ways to tackle diseases.  Its evident hancock & UK Gov have messed up, but labour would have fared little better, they all planned for Flu, got a SARS, then botched a Flu plan that was wholly inappropriate, chucking cash at Data Loss Dido and Serco for a Central C & C top down system  which was certain to fail given the track records of the implementers.  Obviously they used  32 bit software that had limitations in how many records it could hold. bet they had some Office/Excel '97 licences left over so used that to cut cost ( just a humorous interjection, as they wouldn't be that stupid. Would they?)

 

Isolation AWAY from the general Hospitals is the other key measure they ignored, so Nightingales for Covid, obviously issues initially with staff and equipment but not insurmountable, allowing the main hospitals to be Covid free and carry on as usual as if it were 1920, with isolation hospitals used for the infectious diseases like TB.  Wouldn't be this crisis and hidden in plain sight timebomb with cancer and other treatable conditions going untreated witha human cost far beyond anything from Covid.

 

 

 

Rant over.  feel free to shoot me down in flames now.

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