Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

New figures from Office of National Statistics for England and Wales, alongside Scotland and Northern Ireland, shows death toll of 32,313

 

"Data published by the Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed 29,648 deaths linked to coronavirus had taken place in England and Wales as of 24 April.

 

Including deaths for Scotland and Northern Ireland, the toll on this measure now amounts to 32,313.

 

According to the ONS report, of the deaths registered up to 24 April, 71.8 per cent (19,643 deaths) occurred in hospital. 5,890 deaths took place in care homes, 1,306 in private homes and 301 in hospices. This represents a fall of 12.6 per cent in hospital deaths, but an increase of 2,500 deaths in care home deaths compared to the week before."

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-highest-europe-cases-covid-19-italy-spain-a9499181.html

 

 

 

IMO its worth looking at the contrast between the effectiveness of  NI's DUP driven UK type response and the RoI's, especially the border areas.

That also doesn't seem to cast the UK's 'response' in a good light.

 

The highest death toll in Europe - as sadly predicted.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Well, it looks like Farage thinks the loc-down and restrictions - even on travel shouldn't apply to him, despite him "previously accused those flouting lockdown rules of “middle-class hypocrisy”."

 

Farage went further

 

“Yet when I went out at the weekend on Saturday I passed a local historical attraction, you couldn’t get in the carpark."

... Perhaps Should have got up a bit earlier to get a space Nigel

 

 

“I’ve never seen so many cyclists on the road in all my life."

“These aren’t short distance cyclists"

He'd clearly seen them over many miles while he was out and about ..

 

 

Never mind Nigel, you've been warned twice and broken the lockdown rules MANY times by your own admission

- more than most would get

 

I think an example should be made .. let alone the law upheld against repeat/consistant offenders

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, cjcregg said:

 

Opinion's fine (when it has at least some factual basis). Misinformation isn't.

 

 

 

and HB has given many very valid and relevant references

You are just offering JUST your opinion, which clearly you think is fine

- and it is as far as it goes

- but your flying in the face of evidenced opinion is of minuscule value against supported opinion and in your face evidence .. in my opinion.

 

 

 

So How should we be testing, or not and if not why not?

 

and How do you excuse the UK having the highest death rate in Europe, despite having more warning and thereby more time to prepare and more detail on what happened elsewhere?

 

The 'Sick man of Europe' award should show who was right and who is wrong ...

 

 

and why isn't Farage being fined?

Edited May 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

4 minutes ago, snowdragon said:

I take it TJ  you do not like  Boris?   who  else   do you think  should be in Government?

 

 

Not a proven pathological self serving liar who has repeatedly demonstrated he cannot competently manage even quite small projects..

 

 

 

Some might argue they all lie .. but whether that is true or not, it beggars the question:

 

Who would you trust with your family if the choice was down to :

 

a) Someone who had told a white lie once or twice over a number of years when it was arguably necessary

 

b) Someone who repeatedly demonstrates they would lie through their teeth whenever they even thought it might be in their slightest interests

 

??

 

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

4 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

 

If I thought you were capable of honest and objective debate I'd answer you.

 

Why?

We clearly don't demand that of you, although it would be nice ...

 

Make a case ... if you have one

 

(fat chance)

Edited May 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Seems Hancock won't answer even very basic questions either

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-contact-tracing-app-nhs-symptoms-uk-matt-hancock-a9499091.html

 

Whats the point of tracing if you aren't going to test to see if tracing needs to go a step further?

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

One of the few interviews where the hard questions were asked and pressed despite the avoidance we so commonly see, and who'd have thought who it would be ..

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, hightail said:

I honestly believe that extra warning and therefore extra data meant (and means) the government had decided it was worth the risk.  On paper I can understand their reasoning, doesn't mean I condone it so please don't shoot the messenger.  This virus is not indiscriminate in that the worst affected, those most likely to have a fatal outcome are well known to be certain identifiable groups and they just happen to be those who (in the main) contribute least and cost most. 

 

 

I agree.

I also think that Johnson and Gove et al think that old and already ill expensive 'statistics' dying is a 'price worth paying' and is still the real 'herd immunity' death of the weak/poor policy that they dare not declare.

 

The issue is the vast sums and lockdown spent in contradiction of that?

It seems inescapable that many (not all) of those 'in charge' are monsters, who only fear that if they display their monstrosity too openly, then even Tories will turn on them in droves.

 

The only other answer would seem to be a highly unlikely utterly monumental level of rampant incompetence, although Johnson does have significant form in that regard.

 

But given the failure to screen and test, and lack of plans which seem bloody obvious like testing nurses before they return to the communities, testing shop assistants

and no plans to test the people flagged in the phone app data grab ...

.. Monsters does seem to be the front runner.

 

[tobyjugg2]

So, How many actual front line NHS staff have been tested anyone?

and what is the criteria .. because it certainly doesn't seem to be patient, community or staff safety from non symptomatic infected people

 

So much for protecting our NHS eh?

 

 

 

 

and the issue re number of tests vs number of people tested

 

Update: 31 March: We now understand from Public Health England that the number of tests does not equate to the number of people tested.

PHE tweeted yesterday afternoon that: “Latest figure for number of tests conducted is 8,278, on 4908 individuals in England (accurate as of 9am 29th March).”

 

Thats nearly 2 tests per person tested ...

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-confusion-over-nhs-england-testing-numbers

 

[tobyjugg2]

Kentucky Fried Coronavirus?

 

 

Damning investigative report from Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-britain-elderly/

 

 

I'm surprised the conspiracy brigade aren't claiming that the Virus was deliberately allowed in, spread through football and pop concerts and cramped, enclosed trains and care homes to target those they wanted to target before they were locked down with infected seeds to further target the poorest who were locked in in cramped overcrowded spaces to get rid of as many as possible ...

 

Makes more sense than any policy excuses bleated by the UK gov.

 

 

Appalling that with NHS front line staff NOT getting tested, that Gove and his daughter (who tested negative) were prioritised ...

I think thats VASTLY more abhorrent and abusive of the system than someone just seeking the company of a girlfriend/partner in these stressful times ..

Yet Gove slithers on ..

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

You can see why the Tories want out of the GDPR and ECHR

 

So who believes the data will NOT be used for other purposes, particularly given the intent to not just share the data with specified UK bodies, but also other UNspecified “Organisations providing health services” ?

 

and how many people think that the app wont be automatically 'updated' in various ways once installed - including in ways you would never agree too if asked up front?

 

and how many people DON't think the actual usage of the app and your data wont 'drift' from the stated usage without any notification once installed

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Especially when there is no test part ...

Surely the cornerstone of a 'real' app for the purpose

 

[tobyjugg2]

The real conspiracy

 

They are NOT going to test except where there is no excuse not to

 

It would show them up as the liars they are and show the real horrors their policies have caused.

 

.. and of course they just have to hold out until Jan when as far as the world and international companies are concerned, we are under US data protection style laws BUT without even the protection that US citizens get from their constitution

 

 

*READ the emails re change of terms you have received from Farcebork, amazon, google etc - even if just the Data Protection bits

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

In addition to BN's' register link, Forbes has an interesting article, especially if you follow the linked references

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlesradclyffe/2020/05/05/the-techlash-and-contact-tracing-our-lost-love-affair-with-technology-might-cost-lives/

Edited May 6, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

24 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Meanwhile on IT, government ministers are using an app that can permanently delete texts and according to this article, makes it easier to avoid FoI requests.

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/pm-and-tory-figures-install-signal-app-that-permanently-deletes-texts-the-sun-1-6639776?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social_Icon&utm_campaign=in_article_social_icons

 

 

That'll stop those pesky whistleblowers claiming I instructed them to do the horrible thing they did ...

'I am unaware of any instruction from me to do that existing or even any instruction existing that could be interpreted that way

[tobyjugg2]

A bit more on testing claims and the reality

 

"on Wednesday just 69,463 tests were carried out or posted,

and because some were done twice only 57,006 people were actually tested."

 

 

"The results of hundreds of thousands of tests done at drive-through centres in England have not yet been shared with GPs or local authorities, who complain they have “no idea” where local disease clusters are. "

 

 

https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1258082721374633985

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/thursday-briefing-how-to-wind-up-a-lockdown

[tobyjugg2]

Timeline

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkLRuyXwOc

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

About time too with one airport at least

Now they need to do similar with ALL air ports, trsain stations, police stations, care homes, Supermarkets etc etc

and ensure that there is speedy FULL testing for any that are flagged - not just sent home to self-isolate and sort out for themselves how they will survive

 

Like the supermarkets testing their customers - it needs to be put in place and a mechanism to get them on a priority food delivery while they are tested - and post testing if they show positive.

 

 

I saw that about the Turkish PPE

What a bloody farce.

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

And the Labour MP Nadia Whittome, who went back to helping the NHS during Covid, has been sacked for speaking out about the lack of PPE.

 

Extracare are saying it was misinformation as there was no shortage....

rather strange that given that they, among many others, have cried out for help

 

"the ExtraCare Charitable Trust issued a cry for help on social media that could not have been more stark.

“This is an urgent appeal,” it stated. “Please help us care safely for our residents during the COVID-19 outbreak. We desperately need your help.”

The trust’s appeal – targeting businesses around Bristol – was for personal protective equipment (PPE) such as surgical masks, plastic-sleeved aprons, gloves, face shields and goggles. It asked businesses that might have supplies to donate or sell."

 

 

https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/care-providers-desperate-to-plug-ppe-gaps-for-at-risk-staff-as-sector-is-hit-by-severe-shortage-66073

 

 

 

 

Nadia has tweeted:

 

If you're a care worker who has faced pressure, threats or disciplinary action for speaking out about PPE, contact my office *in confidence*.

 

We're collecting evidence on how care workers are undervalued, underpaid, and fear speaking out due to precarious employment status.

 

 

Plus:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-mp-nadia-whittome-sacked-21985519

Edited May 7, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

The NHSx app (NHS + x others?)

 

All there issues I raised and more, in detail, and then some ...

 

(rather technical but worth persevering through)

 

Not a chance in hell I will be installing this app on any phone I actually use.

 

 

 

Report_-_Effective_App_Configurations.pdf

[tobyjugg2]

https://tech.newstatesman.com/security/nhs-covid-19-contact-tracing-app-rollout

 

https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/5/21248288/uk-covid-19-contact-tracing-app-bluetooth-restrictions-apple-google

 

 

 

and if nothing else .. its all uploaded to Dastardly doms central databases for post covid 'use.

 

"Britons will not be able to ask NHS admins to delete their COVID-19 contact-tracking data from government servers, digital arm NHSX's chief exec Matthew Gould admitted to MPs this afternoon."

 

"The UK is one of the few countries that has chosen to create a contact-tracing app that is incompatible with the contact-tracing API currently being developed by Google and Apple. Instead of decentralizing the data across devices, the UK will pool the information it collects in a single database"

 

"Already, the UK government appears to have undermined prior assurances that it won’t share the data it collects outside the NHS, suggesting other organizations might use the information for public health research in the future. This is something Apple and Google forbid for any app using their API, and another reason the UK has to build its app without the companies’ help."

 

 

 

 

and they aren't gonna test you - just instruct you to self isolate.

 

 

 

 

I will wet myself laughing if apple and google refuse to allow it in their stores due to data protection/privacy issues like they do with other spyware/malware.

 

Mind you, there is those proposed tax laws being ditched that change their minds ....

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

From what I understand, all the contacts data will be held on a central DB, none of the stored locally on phone and you give permission for it to be uploaded initially declared.

 

Its a full blown we know where you've been and who you've been near even if you don't jobby

Edited May 7, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Google and Apples option

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/apple-and-google-building-joint-coronavirus-tracking-system-into-ios-and-android

[tobyjugg2]

So Summary of testing

 

Hand-cock says 100,000 tests a day,
.. which it seems actually isnt 100,000 tests which is a figure apparently pulled out handcocks backside related in some theoretical way to the total possible tests that could maybe possibly have occurred one day in a perfect world.

 

Of course, handcock claimed the capacity was there and it was lack of demand..
... but then as soon as access to booking a test was actually made available, the sites ran out in minutes and collapsed under the strain
.. unequivocally demonstrating handcocks claims of 'little demand' as nothing more than more lying cobblers

 

So how many people are really being tested each day for the claimed 100,000 tests
- seems to be somewhere around 50-60,000 actual PEOPLE being tested at best.

 

 

 

 

So who apparently IS being tested

* Well - Politicians like Gove and his daughter - on request if someone in your family gets a sniffle  

 

* Rich folk (of course)

 

* anyone over 65 years old with real symptoms of Covid-19,
... unless they are just told to self isolate

* People who leave their homes to work, and are displaying signs of coronavirus,
... unless they are just told to self isolate

* asymptomatic NHS patients and possibly asymptomatic  staff

... staff is unless they are just told to self isolate

* Care home residents and staff will also be ABLE to access tests, even if they do not have symptoms

Actual reality to be confirmed and only probably thanks to the high level of reporting as hightail referred.

 

Who is *NOT* eleigible for tests then?

PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE including
* Shop staff serving hundreds of customers a day
* Delivery people (post, food, etc)
* Nurses, doctors and auxiliary staff - even those working in and around Covid wards - not even once, let alone at least weekly as they should be.

 

- so how crazy/incompetent/negligent/criminal is that?

 

 

 

AND what does does Johnson and handcock suggest will address this?

A phone app that tracks you and everyone you come within 40 feet of, takes all that data (presumably using your paid for data allowance)

and sends it to a central server and stores that data on you and those others

for as long as they like,

to do whatever they like with,

wherever they like
... and you having no rights over that data whether it was used for Coronavirus tracing or not

 

.. oh you might get a text demanding you self isolate from it ...

No testing, no explanation other than you might have been near someone, and no rights

whatsoever over what happens with your data, whether or not it has been of use for the STATED purpose.
... Especially as apparently part 3, section 61A of the Investigatory Powers Act enables

people with symptoms or a diagnosis of Coronavirus to be tracked without notice

Edited May 8, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

On 06/05/2020 at 10:59, maroondevo52 said:

I couldn't get into the DWP in Cumbernauld to do a collection because of the cars in the KFC queue yesterday.

 

 

 

They are following Trumps suggestion to ingest bleaching agents to 'cure coronavirus

- They think its Genuine American Chlorine bleached Kentucky Fried chicken

 

Despite trump claiming it was 'in jest' ... not ingest