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    • The problem with these small debt amounts is that they can hang around like a bad smell. Every now and again you will start to receive letters followed by phone calls. Then it will go quiet and you will have another debt company chasing you. This could go on for many years.   Ignore DCBL as advised.   Send a complaint letter to ELE/Engie, asking why they have asked DCBL to chase a debt, when ELE have never sent any such bill to you. Then explain that you received a final bill relating to address xxxx and you paid it. If somehow there had been a billing error, ELE were advised of your new address, so they should have written to you at the new address.        
    • Of course it could be the same company trading under variations of the same name in order to dilute their bad reputation. In terms of the money you paid, section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act says that where a price for services has not been agreed then a reasonable price will be implied. I gather from what you have told us that they give you the price in advance and you agreed. I'm afraid that on this point, you would be bound to pay the price because contract law does not help people to make good bargains. It simply requires the people stick by the bargains they have made. On the other hand, if they undertook to do a certain job of work and to achieve a certain result – and that result wasn't achieved then you certainly have an action against them. The problem is that a company like this may be difficult to get hold of unless they have got a very clear office or workplace and some assets. The second problem is that you would probably be required to have given plumbforce the opportunity to come back and try again – and unfortunately you didn't do that. This means you tried to make a claim against them, they would probably argue that these plumbing problems they always take one or two goes to fix and that a reasonable person would give them an opportunity to sort it out before going elsewhere. I'm sure you're absolutely right and these people are completely overpriced – and it seems that they have done a bad job – and of course the reviews don't do them any favours. However, I think you're going have difficulty getting your money back on this – although if you want to try, will be very happy to help you – but I'm sure that it will go to a small claim in the County Court. Of course this would be an interesting exercise for you if you have the energy. It's quite simple – but of course you do risk your claim fee and your hearing fee if you lose. I can imagine that if you produced evidence of their reputation and what has happened in court that the judge will be disposed to find in your favour regardless of the arguments which I have suggested that they might put forward. The final risk could be that they would say that you are only entitled to recover the cost of the second plumber required to finish the job that you had paid Plumbforce for. In other words about a hundred quid. It's not a bad argument – I don't know if it is a winning argument – and as I probably wouldn't bother to be represented, they might not think of it for themselves. However, I'm just letting you know of all the possibilities in this problem. Of course I think one of the lessons view is to make sure that you get at least two quotes for everything – even if it seems to be an emergency. When your new home, it's worth making sure that you gather a list of reliable support services – either from your experience or from the experience of neighbours who will already have been through it. That way you can be reasonably certain that if you have any other problems with heating or lighting or water – et cetera, you will have one or two numbers to hand that you can call on with a certain amount of confidence.
    • Stores around the world have been forced to shut their doors due to the virus pandemic. View the full article
    • The drugs giant says it can double the production of a potential vaccine after backing by Bill Gates. View the full article
    • We asked three people who hit the job market just as recession was biting, what got them through. View the full article
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WHO officially names it:

COVID-19

as the death toll passes 1,000


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Worth quick read (IMO)

 

 

 

"It’s no coincidence that some of the worst viral disease outbreaks in recent years — SARS, MERS, Ebola, Marburg and likely the newly arrived 2019-nCoV virus — originated in bats.

A new University of California, Berkeley, study finds that bats’ fierce immune response to viruses could drive viruses to replicate faster, so that when they jump to mammals with average immune systems, such as humans, the viruses wreak deadly havoc."

 

https://scienceblog.com/514136/coronavirus-outbreak-raises-question-why-are-bat-viruses-so-deadly/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogrssfeed+(ScienceBlog.com)

 

 

and

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/opinion/coronavirus-china-research.html?te=1&nl=morning-briefing&emc=edit_MBE_p_20200211&section=topNews&campaign_id=51&instance_id=15889&segment_id=21154&user_id=421a1aa0fd9d7488c1cb94836b119dd4&regi_id=80833938tion=topNews


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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I don't pretend to understand all this stuff and exactly how the virus is transmitted, but I've wondered if it's a good idea to keep people somewhere with an air circulation system. The people kept on the cruise ship seem to be transmitting it to each other.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/18/global-health-experts-question-cruise-ship-coronavirus-quarantine-measures


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I don’t see all the posts on this thread, so don’t know if there is a context in which HB is posting / replying, but it is always a pleasure to respond to HB.

 

The issue the experts raise in that article is that passengers aren’t being offered the opportunity to “disembark and go into quarantine”.

‘Preventing travellers disembarking and travelling without restriction’ has been permissible for a long time : the phrase ‘quarantine’ arises from the 40 days people were quarantined from vessels approaching Venice in the 14th Century.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/historyquarantine.html
 

What you would wish to avoid is “importing new susceptibles”.

 

Cruise lines have established policies for these situations : norovirus outbreaks are a problem for cruise, lines based on similar transmission dynamics (large droplet spread contaminating shared areas), with control measures including enhanced environmental cleaning and restricting passenger cases to their cabins.

 

Crew are a different story, as they live in much higher density cabins. My expectation is that affected crew will be ‘cohorted’ in an “infected crew cabin”.


Air conditioning shouldn’t be an issue, as the virus isn’t spread by ‘aerosol’ (like flu), but by droplet.

Plumbing would be more of a concern (as it was with SARS)

https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2003/pr70/en/
 

until more is known of Covid-2019’s transmission and infect I ITU.


Sampling for those meeting the case definition initially included urine and stools samples. This was never realistically going to happen for the majority of those meeting the case definition (as few will be admitted to hospital, and if seen in A&E and not needing admission they’ll be sent home ASAP)

For those admitted, the stool and urine would have had to be collected & sent in the period before the initial test result came back : negative & there would be no need, positive (and needing to be in hospital)  and they’d be whisked off to one of the specialist units.....

 

Perhaps in recognition of this, the initial test set no longer includes stool and urine.

 

For the confirmed positives (9 so far....) the reference lab advises on ongoing sampling : they say “we’ll tell you what to send and when”, so it isn’t clear if they are asking for stool and / or urine, and if so, when ; either from the specialist units, or the recovered cases (at home).

Edited by BazzaS
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Thank you Bazza, that's very comprehensive.

 

There wasn't any context, I just read the article and wondered again about air con. From what you say, in theory taking a plane is OK as long as you don't come into contact with droplets, am I right?


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Current case contact tracing looks at environmental contamination, so not “someone sneezes on a bus, person the other end of the bus catches it” (‘aerosol’, like ‘flu), but instead, for a plane :

 

contact for > 15 mins, within a 2m distance.

That is based on the stats (isn’t it always?), and “having to draw a line somewhere”

it doesn’t mean you suddenly start being at risk at 2.00m from 2.01m, nor “can’t catch it at 14 mins 59 seconds”.

That is for the “well”, who would then be asked to self-isolate, and only screened if they develop symptoms.....

Edited by BazzaS

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My advice to a traveller : don’t wear a surgical or FFP2 mask. Wear an FFP3 mask ONLY if you know how to put it on and take it off AND know it fits you correctly (you’ve been “fit tested”), otherwise you are “making yourself feel safer” rather than “making yourself safer”.

 

Much more use is using hand sanitizer and / or washing your hands before touching your mouth, nose, or face, or eating.

To prevent you infecting others : “Catch it, Bin it, Kill it”

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-public-information-campaign-launched-across-the-uk

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6 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I don't pretend to understand all this stuff and exactly how the virus is transmitted, but I've wondered if it's a good idea to keep people somewhere with an air circulation system. The people kept on the cruise ship seem to be transmitting it to each other.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/18/global-health-experts-question-cruise-ship-coronavirus-quarantine-measures

 

Yes, it does seem to be that the face masks, low level isolations (hardly quarantine status) and hand sanitising have NOT been very effective over the two weeks and seems more like a breeding nest than an isolation. Glad I wasn't on a cruise.

Of course it could be that all the folk that are infected were infected at the start of the quarantine given that the last figures I saw was that the statistics reported that only 95% of those infected showed symptoms by 12 days.

 

Interesting that the US has had its citizens returned ...

 

Its now clear that some, perhaps most who get infected will never show any significant symptoms and will get over a mild 'cold/chill/hangover' and be none the wiser, so that 95% at 12 days might well be optimistic or pessimistic.

 

The more encouraging side is that it does seem to be sticking just under a 2% mortality rate - probably less if there are far more infections than we are aware of.

We've had a lucky near miss I think - although it isn't over yet.

 

 

 

 


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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A prof on science blog has been (for the last couple of days) gazzumping an announcement due tomorrow (thurs) and he says it will be epidemic

 

Seems to be a legit prof working in the field.

Edited by tobyjugg2

I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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6 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

A prof on science blog has been (for the last couple of days) gazzumping an announcement due tomorrow (thurs) and he says it will be epidemic

I have thought it inevitable to be honest though still think the media coverage is creating a climate of fear and creating headlines which cause unnecessary worry.

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It already is epidemic.

perhaps he meant the next stage ... pandemic.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section11.html

 

media existing to sell newspapers / advertising space / looking to get viewer numbers ... who’d have thought it.

 

The media has a responsibility to give decent advice : appropriate concern rather than generating panic.

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13 hours ago, hightail said:

I have thought it inevitable to be honest though still think the media coverage is creating a climate of fear and creating headlines which cause unnecessary worry.

 

Interesting how we all see the news a bit differently

 

I thought the news was playing it as largely under control if rather sensationalist


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Do you mean TV news or other media?  I’ve found TV/radio to be reasonably measured but get some headlines come up online which would make you think it’s going to wipe us all out.  

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Some people are saying that the Russians are trolling the internet to make people panic...


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, hightail said:

Do you mean TV news or other media?  I’ve found TV/radio to be reasonably measured but get some headlines come up online which would make you think it’s going to wipe us all out.  

 

Good point

 

45 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Some people are saying that the Russians are trolling the internet to make people panic...

 

 

Practising and getting ready to support Johnson and Trump again, and any messing with their 'competitors' at VERY small cost is a good investment.

 

When some of our own news outlets spin constant crap  as hightail says, its even easier for Putin.

 

 


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Well Trump says almost no threat or risk to US and has put Pence in charge

The americans are f** ... in trouble then ..

 

 

Significant that there are (???) claims of infected people who have no known contact with zones or people at risk are starting to appear across the world.

 

If true perhaps does signify on course for a true global pandemic.

I'm still uncertain as to how bad that would be.

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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At the risk of being part of the panic, what we seem to be seeing, even without the sensationalism, seems rather biblical to me

 

The latest virus may be a flash in the pan and 'just another' virus strain that will be in 2022's flu jab ... or not

 

but with floods happing multiple times a year overwhelming barriers that were made to contain what was 'once in a century' extreme events

and once or twice per century droughts going on for years

and once or twice a century massive wildfires happening every year

and the icecaps melting (far faster than commonly reported too)

and the coral dying

and massive algae blooms in the sea and Arctic/Antarctic (ex) ice fields

and mumps and measles returning (definitely through human stupidity and fake news re the jabs)

and antibiotics becoming ineffective (fact not fake news)


I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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1 hour ago, tobyjugg2 said:

When some of our own news outlets spin constant crap  as hightail says, its even easier for Putin.

Someone on BBC radio this morning referred to it as a 'deadly' virus.  Why the need to add such adjectives?

 

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15 minutes ago, hightail said:

Someone on BBC radio this morning referred to it as a 'deadly' virus.  Why the need to add such adjectives?

 

 

and thats one of the milder references, let alone the daily bulls.. errr mail headlines that videos show people dropping in the streets in wuhan

 

 

although it is deadly aka it kills people - about 2% of those known to be infected.

- possibly nearer 1% if there are far more people infected than is believed - as seems likely

Edited by tobyjugg2

I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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19 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

 

although it is deadly aka it kills people - about 2% of those known to be infected.

- possibly nearer 1% if there are far more people infected than is believed - as seems likely

There's a lot of other things just as 'deadly', the difference being they aren't unusual or newsworthy. 

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yes

SARS, Yellow fever, dengue haemorrhagic fever and TB,

 

perhaps more importantly:

Measles in the unvaccinated - at least similar to cov-19 and often higher

Whooping cough in newborns in developing countries-  about 3.7%

Chicken pox in newborns with unvaccinated mothers catching it around birth can be 30% fatal

 

 

BUT

With Cov the issue is how it may be spreading - and with a potential for killing 1-2% of the worlds population wherever you are.

Edited by tobyjugg2

I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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Seems a good overview of the wider situation to me:

 

https://scienceblog.com/514399/coronavirus-response-shows-the-world-may-not-be-ready-for-climate-induced-pandemics/

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

I express my honestly held opinions - they are nothing more or less than that.

... Its just doing some due diligence that makes them seem unusual ...

 

Please don't assume what you see here is what I wrote - At least some of my posts HAVE been edited without my knowledge or agreement - or anything showing people they have been amended

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I was thinking back to this sad but inspiring story the other day, the village of Eyam in Derbyshire during the plague. Article from the Guardian about whether people now will or would be selfless during a pandemic.

 

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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And less depressing, Emma Barnett trying her best to get the truth from Theresa Villiers. I feel sorry for Emma, she did her best. :) Scroll down past the photos at the top to the video.

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/mp-theresa-villiers-refused-to-say-no-deal-in-bbc-brexit-interview-1-6535892


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Last one from me. It's not often I agree with George Osborne, but I think he has a point in his tweet earlier today. Boris has got round to convening Cobra at least.

 

'The British Government now needs to go onto a ‘war footing’ with the coronavirus: daily NHS press briefings, regular COBRA meetings chaired by the PM, Ministers on all major media shows. The public is fearful, wants information and needs to know their leaders have got a grip.'


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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