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Mutating Corona Virus


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I agree with UB that there is a rationale to business telling staff with respiratory diseases to stay home even with a negative Covid test.

 

1) unlikely it’s a false negative covid test (there are much better targets than the initial “ref.,lab. only, PCR), but there still can be false negatives

2) even if it isn’t Covid, you don’t want people with symptoms in spreading it to others, who will then need to get Covid tested and isolate, as when they get symptoms the “could this be Covid” cycle restarts anew for someone else.

Edited by BazzaS
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OMG I can't stop laughing - in a hopeless sort of way.  Tomorrow I'm going somewhere which requires a negative LFT - done within the previous 48 hours and with the appropriate official notification.  First time I've had to do this.

So -

'I' do the test

'I' scan in the QR code

'I' tick a box which declares a negative result

I get the NHS notification to my phone saying I've tested negative.

 

Somebody please explain the point of the exercise to me.  Did I even need to bother sticking something up my nose?  I could probably have just scanned in a QR code without testing.

Edited by hightail
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Each test has a unique QR code?

 

The UK is a joke at the moment.  People fighting over petrol at garages, because of supply issues affecting some garages. 

 

Will we see people fighting again in Supermarkets over the last pack of toilet rolls ?

 

Government are blaming the media for reporting the problems .

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Each test has a unique QR code that ?

As far as I can see I could just have scanned in a QR code of an unused or unreported test and declared it negative.  It is a venue asking for this and it's utterly pointless.  They'd be much better asking everyone to bring an LFT with them and randomly picking 10% out on entry to test in front of a witness

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WWW.THETIMES.CO.UK

An antiviral pill cuts the risk of needing hospital treatment from Covid-19 in half and slashes the chance of dying, according to landmark findings that...

 

WWW.JAPANTIMES.CO.JP

Several companies are working on so-called oral antivirals, which would mimic what the drug Tamiflu does for influenza.

 

 

Links for further info:

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34159342/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41594-021-00657-8

https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(21)00667-0/fulltext

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fphar.2020.01013/full

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7260602/

 

 

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 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “tinpot dictator” “mired in sleaze”

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“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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We aren't hearing much about the nasal sprays quite surprisingly

 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “tinpot dictator” “mired in sleaze”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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On 01/10/2021 at 15:58, honeybee13 said:

Good news about the new drug, TJ.

On the surface yes. Like all antivirals it works best if given early so if it requires a prescription, and therefore a GP appointment, we can whistle for it in this country on the NHS.

Edited by hightail
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Who gets it, and for what severity of illness, though.

 

Trial results suggest molnupiravir needs to be taken early after symptoms develop to have an effect. An earlier study in patients who had already been hospitalised with severe Covid was halted after disappointing results.”

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58764440

 

 

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18 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I assumed it was meant for hospitals. Is that not the case?

 

Its more like a morning after pill or the shingles anti viral pill course

- you need to take it as soon as you get symptoms/positive test - although there are likely to be benefits even if there is some delay

- but that is if you can get it

 

The links refer

 

Perhaps the better known shingles anti-viral course is the nearest simile

 

Google

polymerase inhibitor

protease inhibitors

 

regarding the nasal sprays - the bandwagon brigade have jumped on with vitamin A and all sorts of largely worthless nasal sprays really clouding the issues.

But this is worth a peruse

 

WWW.BIRMINGHAM.AC.UK

A nasal spray that can provide effective protection against the COVID-19 virus has been developed by researchers at the University of Birmingham...

 

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 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “tinpot dictator” “mired in sleaze”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

Interesting that a number of the nasal sprays actually seem to include extracts from seaweed (long chain sulphated polysaccarides) - already referred by me much earlier in the thread

 

At the peak of the outbreaks I was taking brown seaweed (sulphated long chain polysaccharides) although you do need to take care with the high iodine levels and your thyroid. I take one capsule twice a week now.

 

 

Its One of two 'natural' products i have given some credence to since the start of the outbreaks.

One example of the seaweed used has a common name of bladderwrack - not the best one apparently - but a good alternate option and far easier and cheaper to acquire than the commonly referred one

 

WWW.SCIENCEDAILY.COM

In a test of antiviral effectiveness against the virus that causes COVID-19, an extract from edible seaweeds substantially outperformed remdesivir...

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “tinpot dictator” “mired in sleaze”

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“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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TJ : how does the brown seaweed’s “sulphated long chain polysaccharides”

a) get from your GI tract (since you are taking them as capsules) to the site where they protect you? And

b) which site is that (that they protect you at)

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Read the articles and the previous links if you are suitably qualified to do so. They give technical detail which would be a waste copying

- AS THEY ARE LINKED

They are there and dont need me to quote parts at your beck and call simply to receive pedantic tirades from you saying I simply quote whats linked if I do, and quoting more detailed stuff which you find in some google search if I summarise, or you rambling off on some tangent.

 

I have stated there are two 'natural products I give some credibility too and given links before and repeated one immediately above.

Don't like that?  - Tough. Take it up with pubmed and boots (the inventors of Ibuprofen) for starters.

Theres a number of others you can take it up with in the links too. I'm not interested in your egocentric tirades and I doubt they will be either

 

.. and how am I seeing your burbles ?

Must have accidentally removed your bin lid when I removed my notifications when I couldn't log on.

I'll sort that now.

Bye.

-

 

 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “tinpot dictator” “mired in sleaze”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

I'll just add (for others) as well as the recent very credible study links supplied - its nothing new

- from 2014

 

Paula Virginia Fernández, ... Marina Ciancia, in Advances in Botanical Research, 2014

9.4.3 Antiviral Activity

Several sulphated seaweed polysaccharides show antiviral activity against enveloped viruses, including important human patogens as Herpex simplex virus (HSV), human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), dengue virus and others (Damonte, Matulewicz, & Cerezo, 2004). Their antiviral activity appears to be based on the ability to interfere with the initial attachment of the virus to the target cell, blocking the viral entry. This activity was mainly reported for polysaccharides from red seaweeds (carrageenans, agarans and xylomannans) and brown seaweeds (fucoidans). In 1999, Lee, Hayashi, Maeda, & Hayashi, 2004 described the anti-HSV-1, anti-HCMV and anti–HIV-1 activity of a rhamnnan from the green seaweed Monostroma latissimum. Later, the same group assayed for anti-HSV-1 activity 11 polysaccharides from green algae, including two arabinans from C. latum and C. fragile and an arabinoxylogalactan from C. adhaerens. Although no detailed structural information about these polysaccharides was given, differences in antiviral potency among arabinans appear to be related with sulphate content. Arabinan from C. latum, as well as other compounds evaluated, showed the highest activity when added to the medium at the time of viral infection, but it maintained its activity at high levels even when added to the medium 8 h post-infection.

Finally, a highly branched galactan from C. fragile, FG, inhibited the replication of HSV-2, possibly by interfering in the early steps such as virus adsorption and penetration into host cells. FG suppressed virus production most efficiently when added at the same time as virus infection and throughout the incubation thereafter. Pretreatment of host cells with FG showed no inhibitory effects, and less anti-HSV-2 effect was observed when added only during viral infection. FG maintained antiviral activity at higher levels when added to the medium even after 6 h of virus infection. In addition, FG was found to make the virion lose its infectivity. In contrast, FG did not show anti-influenza A virus effect (Ohta et al. 2009).

Edited by tobyjugg2

 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

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Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Yes, but activity in cell culture is not the same as activity in the human.

spraying a substance in the nose isn’t the same as swallowing tablets / capsules.

 

One of the papers you refer to (in your lack of understanding) highlights these substances as alike to heparin / fractionated heparins.

 

This highlights your lack of understanding as heparin can’t be taken by mouth (like the capsules you take) and have any effect. Heparin has to be injected.

This is why heparin is given by injection (and when anti-coagulation has to be continued longer term people get swapped to warfarin).

Warfarin (a very different molecule and working by a completely different mechanism) can work being taken by mouth, heparin can’t.

 

of course I could produce papers showing bleach has activity against a wide range of pathogens. Most sensible, sane people won’t suggest injection or ingestion of bleach (although one [now ex-] President of the USA showed how ignorant they were by asking how it could be used!)

 

So, I ask again as it shows you seem to quote papers as if you understand them:

 

TJ : how does the brown seaweed’s “sulphated long chain polysaccharides”

a) get from your GI tract (since you are taking them as capsules) to the site where they protect you? And

b) which site is that (that they protect you at)

 

Edited by BazzaS
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-NYT

 

"Dr. Fauci was enthusiastic about the development of the new Merck anti-viral pill, describing it as “extremely important.” In announcing the results of its clinical trial last Friday, Merck said the pill was able to cut the risk of hospitalization and death from the virus by half.

But he also warned that Americans should not wait to be vaccinated because they believe they can take the pill."

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The articles linked on the pills and seaweed components can be a little technical, and not everyone is that way inclined (thank god) so:

 

 

 

,, then have another browse through the linked article, and links from the linked article should the desire nudge.

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WWW.REUTERS.COM

European companies playing key supporting roles in COVID-19 vaccine manufacturing are working to move production and supply chains closer...

 

The U.S. Defense Production Act with its system of rated orders that prioritise U.S. crisis response, also hobbled Merck's ability to serve vaccine makers elsewhere in the world.

In response, Merck in March laid out plans to invest 25 million euros in France to make disposable plastic materials for bioreactors, an essential input for COVID-19 vaccine manufacturing.

 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “tinpot dictator” “mired in sleaze”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Heparin!

 

Seaweed!!!

 

Snake Oil!!!

 

(TJ quoting random videos and research papers cited apparently without understanding that these are cell culture studies ……, not clinical efficacy studies!)

 

TJ :  Where is the heparin needed? In the nose? The blood? The lung??

 

How are you suggesting you get the heparin there, and (if in blood) what APTTR of heparin is needed for an anti-Covid effect?

 

Given severe covid disrupts the normal clotting (with both localised micro thrombi and wider impaired clotting), are you sure systemic heparin treatment offers an overall survival benefit (or even any treatment benefit)?


Hint; patients on haemofiltration on ITU (for renal failure as part of multi-organ failure due to Covid) will be heparinised. No one is yet advocating heparin treatment for Covid, well, except maybe TJ…….. 

Edited by BazzaS
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Looking after private pals for doing nowt:

 

"The Treasury agreed in March 2020 to pay for a deal to block-book the entire capacity of all 7,956 beds in England’s 187 private hospitals along with their almost 20,000 staff to help supplement the NHS’s efforts to cope with the unfolding pandemic. It is believed to have cost £400m a month.

However, the Centre for Health and the Public Interest’s report (Pdf) says that on 39% of days between March 2020 and March this year, private hospitals treated no Covid patients at all and on a further 20% of days they cared for only one person. Overall, they provided only 3,000 of the 3.6m Covid bed days in those 13 months – just 0.08% of the total.

 

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Exclusive: Private hospitals in England also performed far fewer operations on NHS-funded patients despite multi-billion pound deal with government

 

 

 

WWW.CIVILSERVICEWORLD.COM

Shadow chancellor also promises “biggest wave of insourcing in a generation” if party wins next general election

 

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 "Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “tinpot dictator” “mired in sleaze”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Does anyone else think the government is trying to ignore Covid? Rachel Clarke who is a doctor has tweeted this.

 

'Today we've topped 40,000 new cases of Covid - with multiple hospitals on black alert, patients in corridors & ambulances unable to offload patients.

 

@10DowningStreet's "vaccine-only" response (no other mitigations) makes us a global outlier. It is staggeringly irresponsible.'

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Still on the 'vaccine only' response, this was in the Guardian yesterday.

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Instead of relying on vaccines alone, countries such as France and Germany are using extra measures to keep cases and deaths low, say UCL’s Christina...

 

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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In my area the number of infections is horrendous - the rate per 100k was well over 1k at one point but it is going down again now.  Sounds awful but it wasn't reflected in hospital admissions or deaths as it was/is schoolchildren.  At one point there were 15 children off with confirmed cases from a single class in the local primary school.  I believe their parents' generation are also showing disproportionate rates of infection but it doesn't appear to be hitting others.

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That's awful, HT. I hope the decline in cases continues.

 

One of the UK experts, I can't remember which atm, said that she thinks there are two epidemics, one in older people and another with school kids and their parents because a lot of the people in hospital are under 50 now.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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