Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

On 31/07/2021 at 11:48, hightail said:

Apparently around 23% of those in hospital 'with' Covid are not there 'for' Covid but for other reasons.  I'd like to think this is one reason why the numbers of hospitalised cases among the vaccinated can seem high.  Does strike me as a ridiculous way of reporting the figures when they're trying to overcome vaccine hesitancy.  Feeds anti vaxxers arguments.  

 

Wont they twist anything to their own ends? As we see repeatedly. Brexit put the liars in charge, and they dont just lie about Brexit.

 

Although it does seem clear (sic) that the way Johnson 'the liars' 'official' stats and isle (sic) bashing careering from anything to anything has long fed the 'say what you want, not what it is' narrative. Total lack of consistency, clarity or even common sense it seems.

 

I still dont understand why the Johnsonite 'covid' issue with specifically France but not other seemingly 'worse' countries, unless it is just politics - as it probably is.

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

I see Johnson said yesterday that the UK has vaccinated more people than any country in Europe. I can't find the exact quote atm but I don't think this is true.

 

In terms of people fully vaccinated, Germany has 51, 241,053 but a lower percentage of the whole population. The UK has fully vaxxed 46,872,411 people.

 

If you look at percentage of the population vaxxed, the UK is behind Gibraltar, Malta, Isle of Man, Iceland and Denmark. This article has a link that's up to date as of today.

https://www.sortiraparis.com/news/coronavirus/articles/240384-vaccine-in-the-world-as-of-datadatestodayfrlatest-the-percentage-of-people-vacci/lang/en

 

[hightail]

On 01/08/2021 at 11:17, unclebulgaria67 said:

Could you imagine the reaction in the UK if the same strict enforcement actions had been taken.

A frighteningly high proportion of the population have shown they're happy to have every aspect of their lives controlled and want the same for others.  Plenty wanted even more draconian measures with military enforcement.

[honeybee13]

4 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

and vast sums spent on 'nightingale hospitals', which weren't used in any real way

 

BN and TJ, wasn't a lot of the problem that there weren't enough staff to run the NHS and the Nightingales?

 

On a separate note, President Macron has a video on Tik Tok trying to appeal to younger French people to have the vaccine and answer questions about what's worrying them about being vaxxed. He's wearing a black t-shirt instead of his normal suit. It remains to be seen whether he appealed to French youth enough...

[tobyjugg2]

You mean johnson 'the incompetent liar' + handcock (that name says it all) threw up some very expensive tents with no idea, let alone any plan, how they were going to staff, manage or even implement them HB?

 

:-/

 

@hightail

I don't think its an issue with people wanting their lives micro-managed, especially by proven incompetents, but they do want a sensible, supportable set of rules and mechanisms ... none of which has ever really shown much more than a nose outside the lockdowns ... breached by spads and ministers repeatedly (C

 

Like Lockdowns with spads breaching them and ministers then supporting the spad telling the population that the rules they had lived by were 'opinions/suggestions' and breaching them was being a damn fine person who is an example to us all - more than once, even if a recent one caused another quick trolly skid ... once the damage was done.

 

Then think about the 'thousands of pounds in hotel lockdown fees if you go on holiday

The rich dont give a damn - they will country jump (as Johnson snr did) or just pay if they get caught coming back in

- dont forget exemptions for businessmen

That was just a deterrent for normal folk.

 

Incompetence and cronyism end to end

 

 

[brassnecked]

Staffing is always an issue thanks to the Pingocracy running the Pingdemic, NHS Wales is virtually shut down due to "You must go home if you hear the Ping"

[hightail]

I have a burner phone which I leave on a windowsill where people walk by quite close.  Gets pinged regularly even though it hasn't been out of the house.

Edited August 3, 2021 by hightail

[honeybee13]

I've read about that happening. Are you just ignoring the pings then?

[hightail]

Wasn't deliberately ignoring it to start with.  Put the app on it to check in to a pub way back in April as we first started opening up.  Brought it home and left it on the windowsill.  Would have taken notice of being pinged at that point.  Had no reason to charge it for a while, then did, then realised what was happening and decided to let it run out of charge again. 

[hightail]

3 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

but they do want a sensible, supportable set of rules and mechanisms

I have a sensible set of rules and mechanisms. There is nothing to stop me taking whatever precautions I choose.

[brassnecked]

Thing is its pinging saying a contact, and the person has been nowhere near the actual case. they can be downstairs in the street  other side of a locked front door so no physical contact whatsoever, passing by, and if the app pings they say at T & T like Daleks Isolate isolate isolate.

[unclebulgaria67]

Sydney couple arrested for Covid breach at Commonwealth Bank | Daily Mail Online

WWW.DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

---

A southwest Sydney couple have been charged with a string of offences after allegedly breaching Covid restrictions by travelling...

 

In Australia they don't mess around with lockdown enforcement.

 

Australia not doing great with vaccine roll out . Best performance within Sydney area has less than 30% of adult population vaccinated

[hightail]

12 hours ago, brassnecked said:

Thing is its pinging saying a contact, and the person has been nowhere near the actual case. they can be downstairs in the street  other side of a locked front door so no physical contact whatsoever, passing by, and if the app pings they say at T & T like Daleks Isolate isolate isolate.

They say they've made it less 'sensitive'.  You have to wonder how it was set to start with that you could get pinged from passing someone in the street or from one house to another.  It was yet another con job - they knew or they would have made isolation mandatory if it was working properly.

[brassnecked]

Basically chummie's made money from it.

[honeybee13]

Who are you thinking of, BN?

[tobyjugg2]

16 hours ago, hightail said:

I have a sensible set of rules and mechanisms. There is nothing to stop me taking whatever precautions I choose.

 

Absolutely, as do I. I wore a mask long before it was required. I learned from the experiences and advise of the reports from the far east (not been there for years)

 

...but what use is you wearing a mask and maintaining your distance in a supermarket when many other are leaning across you or shunting past you, without a mask, to grab something off a shelf

or worse, that the staff and security guard you pass at a deliberate 'sales' bottleneck in that store aren't wearing masks as hundreds a day pass them?

(Morrisons)

 

Of course many can go to other shops - and I do,  but its not that convenient for everyone, and we all know that people go to multiple shops, and they clearly dont give a crap about others, and they ARE doing it on public transport. I was shocked seeing a bus pass with many not wearing masks.

 

Our local Morrisons seems likely to me to be the potential epicenter of an outbreak, and potential mutation. and if  all Morrisons across the country are doing that?

(Tesco and Aldi are being sensible thankfully)

 

 

I've heard people say cant have your life held to ransom by covid - to which I replied

How is wearing a mask in crowded places full of IMO idiots who seem to be the MOST likely to get the virus 'holding yor life to ransom'. Is going to the shop your life?

or is wearing a mask in a shop empowering your normal life with your friends and family, so that provided they offer you the same courtesy and consideration, you are all protecting each other from those idiots who mean nothing in your real life.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

You've sort of made my point TJ that you want others to be made to act as you deem appropriate for as long as you need to feel 100%  safe.  I see it differently because I know they never have.   Those who didn't want to wear a mask never have - they just claimed they were exempt and lord help anyone who dared to ask why.  I regard my safety as my responsibility and judge every situation on its merits.  Others will make their own choices.  They are not responsible for me.

[tobyjugg2]

26 minutes ago, hightail said:

You've sort of made my point TJ that you want others to be made to act as you deem appropriate for as long as you need to feel 100%  safe.  I see it differently because I know they never have.   Those who didn't want to wear a mask never have - they just claimed they were exempt and lord help anyone who dared to ask why.  I regard my safety as my responsibility and judge every situation on its merits.  Others will make their own choices. 

 

They are not responsible for me.

 

But as the main efficacy of masks and distance is that your doing it protects others, and others doing the same protect you ...

THEY are responsible for your safety, just as you are theirs. Controlling and beating this pandemic takes us all being sensible - not some. and there will ALWAYS be some who need it pressed on them.

 

That some have long breached it with impunity is a failure of leadership IMO, and is one of the root causes so many are now.

How ridiculous is it that people with breathing difficulties, hence especially susceptible - are given a pass rather than better help (perhaps better masks)?

 

Wearing a mask and maintaining polite distance in places with lots of strangers interacting seems to me to be a very small inconvenience to protect your loved ones, and being required to do so seems not only reasonable - but necessary in part BECAUSE of those who abuse excuses.

 

and in fact, might get some more people into the habit of showing a little decency and thought for someone other than themselves - although I wouldn't hold my breath ..

 

[hightail]

But nobody is stopping you wearing a mask.  Nor are they forcing you into crowded situations which you (and I mean a general 'you') find uncomfortable or deem dangerous.  These are personal choices which people have made from the start, it's just felt as though everyone has complied.  I have my own personal risk/reward criteria which is different from everyone else.  I am confident that whenever I do have prolonged, close contact with others I pose little if any threat.  For example, I have two gym sessions per week with two different PTs which require very close contact as I weight train and need them to spot me.  We don't wear masks.  I flow test before each one because I wouldn't endanger their livelihoods.  Are my workouts essential?  You wouldn't think so but they matter very much to me.  Should I be stopped because others are too nervous to venture out still?

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, hightail said:

But nobody is stopping you wearing a mask.  Nor are they forcing you into crowded situations which you (and I mean a general 'you') find uncomfortable or deem dangerous. 

 

Ah then you agree with the recent statement that those who are vulnerable (or sensible) should wait outside supermarkets until they figure out when there are few and especially few maskless in there if they cant - go home? and simply dont go on public transport and walk the 40 miles to work? or buy a car?

 

 

1 hour ago, hightail said:

 

We don't wear masks.  I flow test before each one because I wouldn't endanger their livelihoods.  Are my workouts essential?  You wouldn't think so but they matter very much to me.  Should I be stopped because others are too nervous to venture out still?

 

I dont doubt that, and that is a choice - and in your case a seemingly sensible one

I see my family without masks as we are confident we all consider each others wellbeing  - its one of the main reasons I wear a mask elsewhere. Probably THE main reason.

 

I have no such belief of concern for my wellbeing in the many who will walk in to a supermarket or bus or train maskless, in the middle of a pandemic (and it is the middle),

.. any more than I think people who have been having 'risky' sex should give blood without proper tests

- despite aids and hepatitis arguably being far less of a risk of death or severe illness currently than covid - probably even in Africa.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

8 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

Ah then you agree with the recent statement that those who are vulnerable (or sensible) should wait outside supermarkets until they figure out when there are few and especially few maskless in there if they cant - go home? and simply dont go on public transport and walk the 40 miles to work? or buy a car?

The very vulnerable, the immuno-compromised have always been at risk.  Pre Covid they and their families had to adjust lifestyle to protect them rather than restrict everyone else so yes, that was their 'normal' before this pandemic hit and it will continue to be the norm for some unless we eradicate all infectious disease.  The vulnerable won't stop being vulnerable post pandemic.

[honeybee13]

But the current problem is an airborne virus which is stopped very effectively by masks, isn't it?

[tobyjugg2]

@hightail

Why are you limiting the response to 'very' vulnerable rather than addressing the actual issue that ALL those who wear masks

 

what about the sensible who are following the scientific consensus?

- even states in the USA are re-mandating mask wearing indoors

- as of course is Scotland despite a further relaxation of other restrictions

- even Johnson mutters and mumbles that people should wear a mask indoors despite his removing the restriction for purely political reasons and against genuine scientific opinion

 

Should EVERYONE else be held hostage by those who refute the scientific consensus?

All for the sake of some not wanting to wear a mask in limited circumstances to protect others?

 

Is it a personal choice to put others at risk unnecessary?

Does that also stand if I grab one by the scruff and throw them away from me in self defense - arguably a better stance and potentially less harmful (to me anyway)?

or drive my car at the maskless leaving supermarkets as 'they could get out of the way?

of course it isnt.

 

 

The graphic HB posted previously says it all really

Edited August 4, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[unclebulgaria67]

Mask wearing makes total sense in public indoor spaces and on public transport , until most countries have high levels (70%+) vacinated.  And it is risky anyway, as probably about 20% of the UK population will remain unvacinated.

 

I would have thought that UK Government would have received scientific advice about mask wearing being important, due to the possibility of new Covid variants being spread, which may cause hospitalisations even where people have been vacinated. 

 

I can see another Government u-turn in September.

[tobyjugg2]

7 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

But the current problem is an airborne virus which is stopped very effectively by masks, isn't it?

i would hope @hightail realises that

 

But its the how the mask 'protects others' mechanism that largely means all need to wear them to protect others,

and without all wearing them, the protection against infection, spread and hence mutation is massively diminished

 

Masks protect everyone ELSE best

Those who dont wear them are risking everyone else MOST  and themselves least

 

 

HB

Wheres that graphic of the 4 mask wearer options