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Mutating Corona Virus


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On 29/06/2021 at 12:50, tobyjugg2 said:

Pfizer and Moderna (mRNA) vaccines produce immunity for years, study suggests

Provided the virus doesn't change too much

 

Separately, a third dose of the O/AZ vaccine 6 months after the second returns the immune response to 'as it was after the second dose'

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-sars-vaccine-immunity-increase-b1874141.html

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03738-2

 

Seems to me its looking like a ?single? booster shot of an mRNA vaccine will be desirable for all those who have received the O/AZ jabs to maximise resistance in an efficient way.

 

 

Germany’s vaccine committee has recommended that everyone who received an AstraZeneca first dose switch to Pfizer or Moderna jabs for better protection against Covid.

Studies show that the immune response is “clearly superior” when an AstraZeneca shot is combined with a second mRNA vaccine, compared with double AstraZeneca jabs, said Stiko. The commission therefore recommended the mix “regardless of age” and with a minimum gap of four weeks between the two jabs, AFP reports.

 

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If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

The other real issue on this issue (sic) (until a variant starts more commonly making kids ill) is do the vaccines reduce spread among children rather than reduce severe illness (worthy as that is)

.. and does it even reduce severe illness in children?

 

The results among adults are conflicting - so ignore Boris the liars lackies claims ...  and the answer seems to be no

- reduces it significantly when everyone is jabbed (carefully orchestrated events) but doesn't stop it

and (obviously) does not prevent spread among the un-vaccinated .. as is the case with children.

 

So as it stands, removing mask use and relying on LFT's among unvaccinated children is just creating a breeding/spreading/mutating zone for the virus among our children.

 

Shame we are led by liars who will say anything that suites their momentary goals - so understanding the real situation is astoundingly difficult.

 

Edited by tobyjugg2
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If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

I havent confirmed them yet but the following seems a quality place to start

 

"According to the two Scottish universities, the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine provided 79 per cent protection against infection from the Delta variant, while the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, meanwhile, offered 60 per cent protection."

 

and yes, that does seem to be what they are saying as opposed to 'against hospitalisation and severe infection'

but I haven't done any due diligence on it yet.

 

Its in the Lancet but heres a free summary

 

 

 

 

groundwork (in addition to prior related links):

 

 

WWW.BMJ.COM

New research looking at the Pfizer BioNTech covid-19 vaccine has provided early indication that it’s likely to produce strong and lasting immunity...

 

WWW.UPI.COM

The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna provide protection against the virus that may last for years, a study published...

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)
WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Israel says technical issues have scuppered deal to give UK Covid vaccines expiring on 30 July

 

 

So many thinks can be read from this. Heres a few:

1. The Israelis dont see inoculating Palestinians as a priority

2. The Israeli's dont want O/AZ doses in exchange

3. The Israelis dont trust Boj 'the Liar' Johnson to honour the deal

4. The UK is desperate for pfiser jabs

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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That's just awful. Surely they can figure out a way for someone to use the vaccines by the end of this month? France as an example could use up a million vaccines in two or three days.

 

Poorer countries would be a better idea or maybe Covax could have them.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

and johnson still keeps banging on with such populist garbage as 'freedom day' while VERY quietly qualifying it with 'not really' statements at the end

 

Piers Morgan

Edited by tobyjugg2

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

 

The PM can have a garden party to watch the football,

but brides can’t have a proper wedding reception and you cant go and see your parent in a home, or properly mourn your loved ones who have passed

 

You can’t sing in church,

but you can sing Three Lions in a stadium and your un-vaccinated children are required to congregate and sing designated propaganda as if they were North Koreans

 

You can’t go on holiday,

but rich businessmen can arrive from abroad without quarantine. 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2
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If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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That just about sums it up TJ.  I'm past caring.  Going to an outdoor gathering next week (public/ticketed) and they're having to tape out the ground in squares supposedly for 30 people at a time.  Outwith those taped off areas in front of the stage we can of course all mingle willy nilly.  I'd imagine that like me, those who are choosing to attempt some sort of normal life won't be spending our time counting the numbers of individuals within taped squares but who knows.

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I was speaking to my brother who lives in Johannesburg yesterday, he was saying their 3rd wave is really bad, hospitals packed most shops closed again, no alcohol sales or tobacco sales allowed, also a 9pm curfew.

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The costs of this pandemic are enormous, probably over a trillion pounds, once you factor in everything.

 

When you look at the tourism sector, in what year do you think London hotels will be full again ? My guess is Summer 2023.  For businesses to lose a large percentage of trade over say 30 months with no idea when it would be economic to be fully staffed, must be difficult to manage.  I can see quite a lot of businesses relying on a good percentage of foreign tourists going bust this year. Government will stop financial support soon and then you will see the wave of business closures.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

The costs of the populist governments lies, incompetence and cronyism are enormous, probably over a trillion pounds, once you factor in everything.

 

 

seems more correct to me

 

Then add in the 800 million a day cost of an incompetent and unrealistic Brexit that breaches their own agreements, the 40% loss in exports, and the costs of the loss of EU pickers and lorry drivers to British industry and dinner tables, and the 100 million plus to Nissan to start to build a factory after they sold the other one to an 'equity' company, and dont forget throwing UK farmers to the dogs to get a really crappy deal with Australia thats 6x worse for us even without the damage to UK farming  ...

.. to mention just a few more

 

... A trillion is barely scratching the surface

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Posted (edited)

DATES not DATA

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Helen Whately says she and others are not comfortable wearing masks

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Boris Johnson to press ahead with final stage of unlocking in England amid huge rise in infections

 

 

"We are going to see rates continue to rise: we're seeing rates rising now, and we know we're going to continue to see rates rise," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme."

- Helen Whately - populist health minister

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Share on other sites

Government scientific advisers have warned that doing so would be like building new “variant factories”.

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Share on other sites

Allowing people to mix at all is building variant factories.  They're going to be with us for evermore.  We live with them for flu - that's not the same as saying Covid is the same as flu btw.  We tailor vaccines year on year which work for the majority and we have an accepted death rate.  I can't see how living with Covid can be any different.

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Worrying report on news by Robert Peston, that Israel have been finding that the Pfizer vaccine is not as effective against the Delta variant.

 

Have come to the conclusion that UK Government had no choice but to remove most Covid measures from 19th July, even though the Covid cases, hospitalisations and deaths will increase, but within levels Government accepts.  I have noticed locally over the last month, quite a lot of people have stopped following the current rules. 

 

In the Autumn if the Covid numbers are not looking good, I can see some of the measures e.g. face covering and social distancing between introduced again. I hope it is not the case, but it is quite likely new Covid variants will be found that the current vaccines are not very effective against.  Then it will be back to vulnerable people shielding until booster jabs are available.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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it is quite likely new Covid variants will be found that the current vaccines are not very effective against.

 

The way it looks to me with protections being suspended is that the UK could be breeding its own variants pretty soon, sadly.

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Why is Preston apparently saying the pfiser vaccine is less effective against the Delta (and especially the Delta plus variant) without saying that the O/AZ and Janson vaccines are even less effective?

 

Around 79% for pfiser, around 60% for O/AZ (against severe illness with two doses (recent in O/az case))

 

and with the  majority of UK adults vaccinated with one or two doses of o/AZ as Johnson says he intends to remove restrictions ...

.. with one dose of O/AZ (or pfiser) giving as little as 30% protection ...

Edited by tobyjugg2

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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Why don't you ask Peston ? He is on Twitter and might reply.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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and that the resistance levels start dropping off significantly even without the variants in the case of the O/AZ vaccine .. with a booster required just to get your levels back up after 6 months ..

 

and do you think televised mass gathering at matches might have something to do with the rest of us thinking why TF am i FOLLOWING WHAT RULES?

 

If you are going to train a virus to escape vaccine-induced immunity

you would do exactly what (England) are doing

 

"unrepentant and inveterate liar" “Moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity”

Boris Johnson Mendex est

 

“The failure of the cheerleaders of Brexit to acknowledge the consequences of Brexit as due to Brexit remains remarkable.” - David Schneider

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