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5 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I thought the WHO said yesterday that longer times between doses is OK.

The WHO are not some magical, infallible body.  They are individuals subject to the same foibles and bias as any other.  How can anyone say that a gap of x, y or z is OK until there's been enough subjects tested to show it?  The manufacturers tested within their own parameters and they have proven figures for those.  Beyond that we have to wait until enough test subjects have waited twelve weeks to see how that works.

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It isn't realistic to lock all those with underlying conditions and over 70s in their homes for the rest of the year   It would have to be properly organised. We have various family members

I’m currently on day 9 of mild symptoms  Starting about 5 days after My daughter had symptoms and subsequently tested positive.  she’s well over it now.   From my point of view I’ve had far W

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So who thinks this plan to put people coming into the country; presumably from multiple places/flights/whatever;  all together in hotels sounds a bit like putting people on a cruise ship ... on steroids?

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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22 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I agree, hightail. It was just confusing that the WHO went against the manufacturers' advice.

They, like governents, are not interested in whether the vaccine offers any protection on an individual level.  There has been a subtle change in quoting AZ stats lately.  It has changed to how well the vaccine seems to be working in stopping transmission, not how well it confers protection on the vaccinated.  This is far more important in stopping the spread of the vaccine overall - maybe not so much comfort to the individual who gains no advantage by having the jab.

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Face masks and some social distancing requirements likely to be a permanent requirement. Will make it very difficult for some organisations to function e.g. lower league football clubs, without the TV revenues, won't be able to exist financially if they have reduced stadium capacities. 

 

Also Pubs, concert venues and theatres are unlikely to return to pre-covid life this year.

 

 

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1 hour ago, hightail said:

 There has been a subtle change in quoting AZ stats lately.  It has changed to how well the vaccine seems to be working in stopping transmission,

 

Without accounting credit for the pfiser vaccine and lockdown impacts on the reduction ...

Just teh usual 'claim any good stuff, deny any bad; however little justification for either'

Edited by tobyjugg2

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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There you go in black and white

 

£22 Billion pounds into Handcock and sercos private sector test and traces hands for little more than a 2% reduction in transmission

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/16/contact-tracing-alone-has-little-impact-on-curbing-covid-spread-report-finds

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"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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Going back to changes likely to be made to the NHS, openDemocracy say the government are refusing to release information and blocking FoI requests. Apparently it's 'not in the public interest' for us to know.

 

openDemocracy think there's a lot of scope for the private sector and of course for ministers to control the NHS. What could possibly go wrong?

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/why-did-government-say-revealing-nhs-plans-not-public-interest/

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Wait until Murdock starts up his 2 fox news clones in the UK spinning right wing boll****

All you will hear is how brilliant a job serco have done and how they should run the NHS ... and get the increased compulsory licence fee money

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/16/world/europe/murdoch-uk-news-channel.html

Edited by tobyjugg2

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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“Murdoch will say anything and do anything to win regulatory approval, and then do the reverse in practice,” Kevin Rudd, former prime minister of Australia said in an interview.

 

Oh and both channels the already approved channels are run by Murdock, and will likely include Piers Morgan (back to being a right wing Piers Morgan) and Nigel Farage

 

Expect lots of trying to trash the NHS as Handcocks mate whining didn't cut it.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/dec/01/rupert-murdochs-news-uk-tv-channel-given-approval-to-launch

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/westminster-news/news-uk-tv-rupert-murdoch-launch-ofcom-6626082

 

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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Operation Moonsh*t (aka trace a test++ more taxpayer billions) crashes and burns, and rises like a pheonix burning even more money for fuel

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-testing-boris-johnson-moonshot-b1803322.html

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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as is this

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cronyism-tories-dominic-cummings-public-first-b1801924.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/15/dominic-cummings-witness-statement-public-first-judicial-review

 

"The government will go to court on Monday to defend a legal challenge against a contract awarded without competition to a company with links to Dominic Cummings.

In March last year Michael Gove’s Cabinet Office handed Public First around a quarter of a million pounds for public relations and opinion research during the first lockdown."

 

"The government reportedly plans to claim £500,000-£600,000 in costs for the single-day hearing."

 

Cummings claimed/alleged:

"Obviously I did not request Public First be brought in because they were my friends. I would never do such a thing. […] The fact that I knew the key Public First people well was a bonus, not a problem"

Edited by tobyjugg2

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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That's the Jolyon Maugham case, isn't it? The costs are ridiculous and the Good Law Project's ones are about a tenth of that. Some people have said it's been done to put people off taking action against the government.

 

It's also why HMG wants to get rid of judicial reviews which would be awful.

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

In March last year Michael Gove’s Cabinet Office handed Public First around a quarter of a million pounds for public relations and opinion research during the first lockdown."

For what!

People were (and are) dying and it was deemed worthwhile to spend money on a bit of PR.  Politics at its very best.

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1 minute ago, honeybee13 said:

That's the Jolyon Maugham case, isn't it? The costs are ridiculous and the Good Law Project's ones are about a tenth of that. Some people have said it's been done to put people off taking action against the government.

 

It's also why HMG wants to get rid of judicial reviews which would be awful.

It's really frightening.  Any and all scrutiny of govt can be stopped using Covid as the excuse.

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4 minutes ago, hightail said:

For what!

People were (and are) dying and it was deemed worthwhile to spend money on a bit of PR.  Politics at its very best.

 

Worse than that - it was to 'spin' more palatable lies IMO

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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Times reports that (I assume removing the spin) that

"Dominic Cummings has admitted that he played a role in a government decision to give more than £500,000 without a bidding process to an opinion research company run by his friends."

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dominic-cummings-helped-friends-at-public-first-win-500-000-contract-sh78xfcdh

 

ah:

"In a statement to the court, Mr Cummings said he was the driving force behind the agency being brought in to the pandemic response, and robustly defended his decisions."

 

"communications firm parachuted in by Dominic Cummings to test government messaging during the Covid crisis was characterised by a Downing Street aide as a “Tory party research agency” being paid with taxpayers’ money, the High Court has heard. "

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/dominic-cummings-covid19-downing-street-public-first-bias-b919868.html

 

Guilty as charged it seems

Edited by tobyjugg2

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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Covid now most commonly found among 5- to 12-year-olds and 18- to 24-year-olds.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/18/covid-infections-in-england-fall-by-two-thirds-but-spreading-fastest-among-young

 

"Experts urge care over opening schools as children aged 5-12 now in one of most common groups for virus"

 

"Researchers said there was no sign yet in their data of the impact of the UK’s vaccination programme on infections; the drop in prevalence was similar among the over-65s as with other age groups."

- which points to lockdown causing reductions - understandable as older folk outside care homes were already largely isolating.

 

Edited by tobyjugg2
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"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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On 18/02/2021 at 08:59, tobyjugg2 said:

 

"Experts urge care over opening schools as children aged 5-12 now in one of most common groups for virus"

Which experts?  Is this another case of choose your expert depending on your preferred message?  In the last couple of days I've seen 'experts' saying it will be fine because children don't get ill with Covid and read a report saying the incidence of children presenting with type 1 diabetes has doubled in some areas and may be a result of Covid infection.

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Its nothing new

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/07/31/new-evidence-suggests-young-children-spread-covid-19-more-efficiently-than-adults/

The 'new' evidence, from last July, supporting common sense understanding of a common sense baseline

 

The messages given by QAnon and Handcock and Johnson 'The liars' are somewhat different -

Like saying theres no evidence that children get covid .. when they REFUSE to test them or acknowledge others quality work, while those that do test say -that children dont tend to get the obvious severe symptoms, but do have viral loads - but its difficult to track infection because they aren't tested.

Checking for longer term damage (lon Covid etc) in everyone including children is also avoided by those spinning a political point rather than science and sense.

 

 

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

Link to post
Share on other sites

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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12 hours ago, hightail said:

 In the last couple of days I've seen 'experts' saying it will be fine because children don't get ill with Covid and read a report saying the incidence of children presenting with type 1 diabetes has doubled in some areas and may be a result of Covid infection.

 

for some TL;DR ‘s .........

 

Additionally, one concern is that children don’t usually get severe illness, but can transmit to adults who might.

Interestingly, there is emerging evidence that is isn’t the younger children involved, but that teenagers are the highest risk group for transmission from children, especially of the ‘Kent variant’

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I haven't seen the data surrounding the UK monitoring of the 'new more transmissible variant' through London and Kent through October, November and early December of last year, but surely the data over the two+ months (at least) that UK agencies were tracking it before telling anyone should also have given some information of who and how it was being spread

... despite an apparent total lack of action and escalation on it that makes the early Chinese approach seem outstandingly exemplary in comparison.

 

 

"In every respect, he has acted responsibly, legally and with integrity"

Boris Johnson on Dominic Cummings' Covid field trips

 

£288 million pounds a week - The ADDITIONAL cost of Brexit customs bureaucracy alone - stuff that on the side of a bus.

 

Its official: Boris "unrepentant and inveterate liar" Johnsons' word

isn't worth the paper written on

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