Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

 

[tobyjugg2]

For gods sake get rid of the green+bauble christmas background which is a runaway task creating endless page loading

[tobyjugg2]

Richard Adams

The Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating Committee, which represents all NHS community pharmacies in England, says deliveries of lateral flow device test kits to pharmacies have restarted today after four days of no deliveries.

Alastair Buxton, director of NHS Services at the PSNC, said:

The wholesaler which supplies the LFD test kits to pharmacies, on behalf of the UK Health Security Agency, made its last deliveries on Friday afternoon, following which all deliveries were paused until this morning, when they fully re-opened, as all pharmacies also returned to their normal opening hours.

Many pharmacies were open over the four-day Christmas break, but as deliveries of medicines and LFD kits would not be made during that period, it is likely that their supply of test kits will once again have been exhausted.

More stock of test kits will have been delivered to pharmacies this morning and they will be able to order more for delivery tomorrow and on Friday.

 

- Guardian

 

 

None available for pickup when I tried earlier today and hasn't been since well before Christmas

None for delivery again when I checked that a couple hours ago

[brassnecked]

They are after vaccinating all children with no regard for the fact the vaccine likely more likely to harm them, shown by adverse events. vaccinate where needed, too much as bad or worse than targeting just those who need it.

[honeybee13]

I know I keep saying it but they could do more good by getting good air quality in schools. Someone's worked out they could make every school in England I think it was, for half the cost of the 'royal yacht. 

[brassnecked]

Absolutely so HB

[unclebulgaria67]

Having some experience with H&S and ventilation, I would have to say that it is far more complicated than you would think.

 

Examples.

 

Office having a fairly up to date system with good ventilation standards, had been switched off by someone.  Presumably at some point, people had complained about being cold or an engineer had visited, but not put the system back into automatic mode.  These systems need to be set to perform at a certain standard and left to run automatically. Then they need to be locked, with only minor adjustments for temperature permitted.

 

Another office had really good system installed years ago on one floor that was open to the public years ago (not in recent years),  but at some point when it was subject to maintenance, someone had fitted cheap air filters.  And then when the office was renovated to include air conditioning to other floors, they did not include a ventilation system.  So you have an office that can house several hundred people, relying on opening windows for ventilation.

 

Yes of course, schools could have mechanical ventilation systems installed, but this would take a very long time ( probably 10 years +) and then you need to have engineers to look after them, conducting regular maintenance and inspections.   Given that Covid may not be the last pandemic, I agree that the investment should be made, but due to the number of engineers that would be required, I doubt Government would make the changes required to enable this.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

4 hours ago, brassnecked said:

They are after vaccinating all children with no regard for the fact the vaccine likely more likely to harm them

 

Evidence please including sources.

Also include the rather limited information to date on long covid effects on children ..

but perhaps start with how many children we believe have died from covid, and how many have died from being vaccinated

 

Please ensure that you include the likelihood of unimpeded covid causing EVEN WORSE effects than any effects from vaccination

 

example: The evidence available that Cytokine storms triggered by vaccine would likely also have occurred AT LEAST as badly with a covid infection.

 

I'll help - its not a trap unless you make it one.

 

Children are more likely to die from Covid than vaccination - Full Fact

FULLFACT.ORG

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At least 25 children have sadly died from Covid in England alone, but we can find no evidence of a child dying as a result of the vaccine.

 

 

No evidence linking deaths among children to vaccine rollout - Full Fact

FULLFACT.ORG

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An article by The Exposé makes a misleading link between official statistics on child deaths and Covid-19 vaccines.

 

 

Interim statement on COVID-19 vaccination for children and adolescents

WWW.WHO.INT

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Interim statement on COVID-19 vaccination for children and adolescents

 

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/18/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-not-linked-deaths-children/8584681002/

 

 

 

 

So lets start with some official albeit very limited stats on deaths of children from Covid-19, and some reality applied to the misinformation

 

"The latest tally of children who have died with COVID-19 is 771."

- that was in Nov, before Omicron.

 

 

PolitiFact - Contorted claim of children killed by COVID-19 vaccines is Pants on Fire

WWW.POLITIFACT.COM

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A blogger claims to use federal data to allege that more kids are killed by COVID-19 vaccines than by COVID-19. It’s a contorted calculation...

 

[tobyjugg2]

3 hours ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

Having some experience with H&S and ventilation, I would have to say that it is far more complicated than you would think.

 

Examples.

 

Office having a fairly up to date system with good ventilation standards, had been switched off by someone.  Presumably at some point, people had complained about being cold or an engineer had visited, but not put the system back into automatic mode.  These systems need to be set to perform at a certain standard and left to run automatically. Then they need to be locked, with only minor adjustments for temperature permitted.

 

Another office had really good system installed years ago on one floor that was open to the public years ago (not in recent years),  but at some point when it was subject to maintenance, someone had fitted cheap air filters.  And then when the office was renovated to include air conditioning to other floors, they did not include a ventilation system.  So you have an office that can house several hundred people, relying on opening windows for ventilation.

 

Yes of course, schools could have mechanical ventilation systems installed, but this would take a very long time ( probably 10 years +) and then you need to have engineers to look after them, conducting regular maintenance and inspections.   Given that Covid may not be the last pandemic, I agree that the investment should be made, but due to the number of engineers that would be required, I doubt Government would make the changes required to enable this.

 

 

 

I know we didnt, and at least in my case this is hindsight,

but imagine that all the fitters etc locked down in the first lockdown were used, in a safe way, to upgrade schools etc ventilation systems ...

.. mind you, that would have left less free money for VIPals wouldn't it

 

and the Populists find even feeding hungry kids completely unacceptable .. so protecting them ... not a chance

Edited December 29, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Oh - and a not too technical summary from WHO that is supported by real studies across the world which digs a little deeper pulled from one of the links above, but which I believe is worth highlighting:

 

"An age-dependent risk of severe disease with those under one year of age experiencing more severe disease has been suggested(5, 6), although several reviews show that neonates (infants in the first 28 days of life) have mild disease when compared with other paediatric patients(7, 8).

 

It is important to note that children under the age of five years have a higher risk of other diseases with clinical presentations that overlap with COVID-19, such as pneumonia and other viral upper respiratory tract infections, which may lead to misclassification.

 

Additionally, age disaggregation has not been systematically provided in the literature, and the results of these studies are context-specific depending on factors such as timing within the pandemic and an emphasis on hospitalized patients(6).

 

Children and adolescents can experience prolonged clinical symptoms (known as “long COVID-19”, post COVID-19 condition(9), or post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection), however, the frequency and characteristics of these conditions are still under investigation.

 

Additionally, a hyperinflammatory syndrome, referred to as  paediatric inflammatory multisystem syndrome temporally associated with SARS-CoV-2 (PIMS-TS) in Europe and multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) in the United States, although rare, has been reported to occur world-wide and complicate recovery from COVID-19(10).

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

and this from fullfact cuts straight through to the facts

 

"A recent clinical review looked at all deaths in children under 18 following a positive Covid test in England, up to the end of February 2021. It found 25 deaths that were caused by the infection—six of them in children who appeared to have no underlying health conditions. We have written about this before."

 

"The risk of a child (or an adult) dying as a result of a Covid vaccination is extremely low. So far, with just under three million doses given to under-18s in the UK, we can find no evidence of any case in which it caused the death of a child."

[Murpheus]

Well that is 6 more than the whole of 2020 when the virus first appeared and obviously more dangerous. No one under the age of 20 died that did not have underlying health conditions. So that leaves 19 that had underlying health conditions. That is triple the number of  alleged cases during 2020. What is causing the graph to increase so much?

[brassnecked]

Well JCVI did advise against vaccinating healthy under 18's with no underlying conditions,Myocarditis following 2nd dose in males between 12 and 18 seem to be a risk.

[Murpheus]

I think the JCVI should have a closer look at over 18s as well while they are at it. Never seen so many people drop in football, rugby basketball you name it. All fit and healthy athletes [ go to Hugo talks, on the 9th wave now and rising] Myocarditis, never heard of it until this year. We all know something just aint right.

 

[tobyjugg2]

check your facts

 

That is referenced in the links and is FAR FAR more prevalent issue in post covid infection .. including in the young

 

Its all in the links, with further references in those links.

Whats MORE likely  is that most of the  issues were discovered because they got the jab and were checked,

NOT that it was caused by the jab.

If it was the jab, thats MOST likely because of an inflammatory response by the body to the 'virus' and would MOST LIKELY have been far worse if they got COVID proper.

 

 

Tell you what, I'll do an example for you from my links  .. as you pair seem to be too ashamed to give your references ..

Piers (Corbyn) monthly?

Qanon Quarterly?

 

"Much like the MHRA’s Yellow Card reporting scheme, VAERS also “reports of any adverse event following vaccination, even if it is not clear the vaccine caused the problem”. So reports to VAERS of conditions like myocarditis following vaccination do not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused the deaths, as they could have occurred naturally through other means.

Although it is true that acute myocarditis can lead to cardiac arrest, as the article claims, the MHRA said that reports of both myocarditis and pericarditis following vaccination “are extremely rare, and the events are typically mild with individuals usually recovering within a short time with standard treatment and rest.”

As of 20 October, the MHRA has received 561 reports of myocarditis, 504 reports of pericarditis and 31 reports of similar conditions following vaccination (although this does not necessarily mean they were caused by vaccination). Five people have died in total. The ages of these people are not disclosed. 

As we have written before, new research shows you are more likely to develop myocarditis following a Covid-19 infection than following vaccination. "

 

 

"Children and adolescents can experience prolonged clinical symptoms (known as “long COVID-19”, post COVID-19 condition(9), or post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection), however, the frequency and characteristics of these conditions are still under investigation. Additionally, a hyperinflammatory syndrome, referred to as  paediatric inflammatory multisystem syndrome temporally associated with SARS-CoV-2 (PIMS-TS) in Europe and multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) in the United States, although rare, has been reported to occur world-wide and complicate recovery from COVID-19(10)."

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Lets make it real simple: fullfact

 

"Vaccine not linked to death

For children, the overall risk of death from COVID-19 is low. But they have not been entirely spared from the virus. 

Provisional data from the National Center for Health Statistics shows 700 kids under the age of 18 have died from the virus. More than 200 of them were younger than 4 years old."

 

Thats 700 kids died from Covid in the USA alone, and more than 2 dozen in the UK (which seems low but real figures seem  hard to get hold of)

 

Start totting up how many kids have died in Europe, the US and the UK combined from covid vaccinations ...

(Most you will see are likely from hepatitus injections)

 

[Murpheus]

(although this does not necessarily mean they were caused by vaccination).? It also does not necessarily mean vaccination cannot be ruled out. If it aint broke, don't fix it and that applies to kids. Data reluctantly published with the help of freedom of information act, revealed in Dec 2020 only 388 allegedly died of the virus that did not have underlying health conditions. None were under the age of 20. This is straight from government and NHS records and published in the Daily Mail and The Sun to name a few sources. Why was this information not disclosed to Kier Starmer when he requested it before voting on the last lockdown? Made no difference as they still voted in favour which proves they are all in cahoots with each other. What next, Freedom of Information Act to be abolished ?  

[honeybee13]

From Deepti Gurdasani yesterday evening.

 

'We live in a country where the govt will ask the military to set up field hospitals & plan for mortuary capacity before enacting even the most basic public health measures to *prevent* this. 183,000 confirmed cases today - the silence is deafening.'

 

NHS England makes plans for field hospitals in preparation for Omicron wave

INEWS.CO.UK

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Health chiefs around the country have been ordered to arrange additional bed capacity in order to cope with any surge in admissions in the coming...

 

[tobyjugg2]

9 hours ago, Murpheus said:

(although this does not necessarily mean they were caused by vaccination).? It also does not necessarily mean vaccination cannot be ruled out.

 

thats a BS 'aint against the laws of physics' response and you know it

The detail, should you care to look defines very differently - and as I stated

700+ kids died in the USA alone with covid on the death certificate

- and that doesn't include issues (like long covid, organ/nervous system damage etc which isnt listed yet

 

 

9 hours ago, Murpheus said:

 

 

If it aint broke, don't fix it and that applies to kids.

 

700+ kids dying in the USA alone, long Covid in its many forms, 

.. You might not think so but I'd say thats clearly broke - and would be even MORE broke if not for vaccinations, masks, hand cleaning, lockdowns and other mitigations.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Murpheus said:

 

Data reluctantly published with the help of freedom of information act, revealed in Dec 2020 only 388 allegedly died of the virus that did not have underlying health conditions. None were under the age of 20. This is straight from government and NHS records and published in the Daily Mail and The Sun to name a few sources. Why was this information not disclosed to Kier Starmer when he requested it before voting on the last lockdown? Made no difference as they still voted in favour which proves they are all in cahoots with each other. What next, Freedom of Information Act to be abolished ?  

 

Links, evidence?

 

Mail and Sun simply are not credible sources - as shown here where their brexit cheerleader headlines (for example) have proven to be utter cheerleader disinfo-codswallop

 

.. and you haven't even linked them, let alone a credible scientific source.

You'll be quoting Trumps' twitter account next - oops he hasn't got one has he ... for lying?

 

Lets see some credible evidence from you.

 

Its a simple task - just find some REAL documented cases of any kids dying from a COVID vaccine.

IF you find any, post the source and detail of why how when.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

What worries me when there's talk of 'underlying conditions' is that those lives can be written off as 'going to die anyway'.  I haven't seen anything recently on how an underlying condition is defined but I believe in the past it has included people with asthma or those with autism.

 

I have fairly mild asthma, but does that mean I'm written off?

[tobyjugg2]

Exactly HB

Some had underlying conditions, but there is no real question that Covid killed them earlier than they would have otherwise died. Just the extreme nutter brigade using 'its not real because the sun might not rise tomorrow' style arguments while not actively AVOIDING giving any credible sources for a considered opinion.

 

One of my links above lists (and destroys) some of those arguments quite like those being used

eg “No reports of death to VAERS were determined to be the result of myocarditis.”

 

The REAL argument is 'would getting the vaccine in the right dose in time  have prevented their deaths'?

- and the real evidence, reported in real stories and REAL science says 'yes, it almost certainly would have prevented the vast majority if not all of those deaths.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[brassnecked]

The too free use of DNR in UK would tend to echo your worry HB  Meanwhile, another blog from Dr Richard North

 

Covid: the London problem | Turbulent Times

WWW.TURBULENTTIMES.CO.UK

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As diverse news organs hyperventilate over the new daily record of what they describe as Covid "cases" – currently standing at 183,037 –...

 

[tobyjugg2]

vast amounts of high level speculation there by North, and quite a bit of twisted logic. So nothing new in the stance

 

Not a good start:

 

"As diverse news organs hyperventilate over the new daily record of what they describe as Covid “cases” – currently standing at 183,037"

 

Isnt that recorded as daily infections - which some call cases (as in new infection cases) ?

So whos these 'they 'he refers?

 

Why the flippant and inflammatory attempt to twist the meaning?

Are his arguments so weak? Well, yes, they are.

 

 

Then his argument that the rise in infection count is due to more people being tested, as they are testing themselves more, apparently attempting to present the argument that nothing has changed, so everybody relax and get back to normal ..

 

... sooo - he's saying that more people are testing so its all largely the same or not much worse than the delta wave eh? ..... but seemingly claiming that a 'back to business as normal (without qualifying what that is - pre-pandemic? Delta wave peak? )

errrrr

 

Apart from the rampant circular illogic of that, it has ALWAYS been stated that its likely that the majority of infections are not trapped - and stats try (statistically) to work with that.

 

So, If anyone wants to try and defend that twisted stance of Norths, I'll happily (debate wise) rip them several new ones with science, stats and simple sense, the latter particularly.

 

 

 

Science (given that living systems have large chaotic elements) currently appears to be indicating that the situation with Omicron should very broadly be between 80-100% as damaging as the delta wave, with perhaps 20-30% of the deaths and SEVERE (ventilators maintaining life) but 2-3 times the spread, and somewhere around 40-60% of the symptomatic illnesses - plus of course craploads spreading infection with no symptoms

- thats in the boosted

 

*** There is no real confident info on what effect long covid type damage has and will occur for alpha, beta or delta, let alone Omicron, let alone the next variants that are brewing in the massive spread.

 

 

If Omicron had been as damaging and able to bypass vaccination as the genetic make-up seems to define (still largely true) then the figures stated would have been far nearer the truth. WE were again 1 lucky, 2 well vaccinated

 

The reduction in deaths and severe illness recently is mainly a result of vaccination

 

North is useful as an agent provocateur, and does make some good points from time to time but anyone who uses much of his material with anyone other than a Trumpett style believer ....

 

 

 

If thats too much to read, heres a couple of compact soundbites

 

Covid Kills Kids

 

Vaccination Vacillation is Vacuous

 

Book a Jab, or reserve a body Bag

 

[tobyjugg2]

Lets look at the FACT that the average number childhood deaths have increased which some seem to be trying to point to vaccination (what!!! )

- percentage wise it looks monstrous, yet although the actual increase (number wise) in deaths is small, each is monstrous.

 

Very little breakdown available, but any potential Covid links have been examined - like the 700+ children's deaths in the US attributed to covid - with ZERO linked to vaccination.

 

So, explain the increase I hear

Perhaps consider

1. Actual Covid deaths

2. the simple fact that covid and overwhelmed NHS has dramatically reduced the testing for other horrors like cancer and its ilke?

3. perhaps that so many more children are in food poverty, making them more susceptible to many illnesses?

 

Now given the Facts - doesn't that make more sense?

 

[tobyjugg2]

OK, lets cut to the quick here. Your arguments appear to be

 

Because there is perhaps a tiny smidgeon of doubt possible in the 99.9%+ overwhelming evidence that Covid does kill kids in significant numbers as well as adults (and causes long term damage to a lot more kids and adults)

 

And because there is a tiny smidgeon of doubt possible despite the 99.9%+ overwhelming evidence that Vaccination improves all levels of protection against covid infection, disease and spread, severe or otherwise … for EVERYONE including kids without significant risk of harm (CLEAR benefits VASTLY outweigh the small possibility of risk)

 

You apparently justify to yourself that the tiny smidgeon of a <0.01% possibility that vaccination of people could possibly, within the realms of science, despite science defining otherwise, actually maybe in some circumstance - harm someone, somewhere, maybe, not against the laws of physics (<0.00001%) even severely harm someone, and despite checks and contingencies for allergies etc, - maybe even a child

should mean ‘vaccine denial’ is not vacuous, dangerous stupidity and should be promoted ??

 

 

So what you are actually  doing is using a tiny element of reasonably doubt in a massively justified approach

to attempt to justify promoting an infinitesimal small possibility as the main director of a course of action ...

PHUUUUUT