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    • I'm still pondering/ trying to find docs re the above issue. Moving on - same saga; different issue I'm trying to understand what I can do: The lender/ mortgagee-in-possession has a claim v me for alleged debt. But the debt has only been incurred due to them failing to sell property in >5y. I'm fighting them on this.   I've been trying to get an order for sale for 2y.  I got it legally added into my counterclaim - but that will only be dealt with at trial.  This is really frustrating. The otherside's lawyers made an application to adjourn trial for a few more months - allegedly wanting to try sort some kind of settlement with me and to use the stay to sell.  At the hearing I asked Judge to expedite the order for sale. I pointed out they need a court-imposed deadline or this adjournment is just another time wasting tactic (with interest still accruing) as they have no buyer.  But the judge said he could legally only deal with the order at trial. The otherside don't want to be forced to sell the property.. Disclosure has presented so many emails which prove they want to keep it. I raised some points with the judge including misconduct of the receiver. The judge suggested I may have a separate claim against the receiver?   On this point - earlier paid-for lawyers said my counterclaim should be directed at the lender for interference with the receiver and the lender should be held responsible for the receiver's actions/ inactions.   I don't clearly understand that, but their legal advice was something to do with the role a receiver has acting as an agent for a borrower which makes it hard for a borrower to make a claim against a receiver ???.  However the judge's comment has got me thinking.  He made it clear the current claim is lender v me - it's not receiver v me.  Yet it is the receiver who is appointed to sell the property. (The receiver is mentioned/ involved in my counterclaim only from the lender collusion/ interference perspective).  So would I be able to make a separate application for an order for sale against the receiver?  Disclosure shows receiver has constantly rejected offers. He gave a contract to one buyer 4y ago. But colluded with the lender's lawyer to withdraw the contract after 2w to instead give it to the ceo of the lender (his own ltd co) (using same lawyer).  Emails show it was their joint strategy for lender/ ceo to keep the property.  The receiver didn't put the ceo under any pressure to exchange quickly.  After 1 month they all colluded again to follow a very destructive path - to gut the property.  My account was apparently switched into a "different fund" to "enable them to do works" (probably something to do with the ceo as he switched his ltd co accountant to in-house).   Interestingly the receiver told lender not to incur significant works costs and to hold interest.  The costs were huge (added to my account) and interest was not held.   The receiver rejected a good offer put forward by me 1.5y ago.  And he rejected a high offer 1y ago - to the dismay of the agent.  Would reasons like this be good enough to make a separate application to the court against the receiver for an order for sale ??  Or due to the main proceedings and/or the weird relationship a borrower has with a receiver I cannot ?
    • so a new powerless B2B debt DCA set up less than a month ago with a 99% success rate... operating on a NWNF basis , but charging £30 to set up your use of them. that's gonna last 5mins.... = SPAMMERS AND SCAMMERS. a DCA is NOT a BAILIFF and have  ZERO legal powers on ANY debt - no matter WHAT its type. dx      
    • Migrants are caught in China's manufacturing battles with the West, as Beijing tries to save its economy.View the full article
    • You could send an SAR to DCbl on the pretext that you are going for a breach of your GDPR . They should then send the purported letter of discontinuance which may show why it ended up in Gloucester and see if you can get your  costs back on the day. It obviously won't be much but  at least perhaps a small recompense for your wasted day. Not exactly wasted since you had a great win  albeit much sweeter if you had beat them in Court. But a win is a win so well done. We will miss you as it has been almost two years since you first started out on this mission. { I would n't be surprised if the wrong Court was down to DCBL}. I see you said "till the next time" but I am guessing you will be avoiding private patrolled car parks for a while.🙂
    • It is extremely disappointing that you haven't told us anything about the result of the hearing. You came here at the very last minute and the regulars - all unpaid volunteers - sweated blood trying to get an acceptable Witness Statement prepared in an extremely short time. The least you could have done is tell us how the hearing went, information invaluable for future users. Evidently not.
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Mutating Corona Virus


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With the following rates, What resources do the NHS have for anything else? ) or even just that

... Over 90,000+ daily confirmed infections and 900+ daily admissions to hospital (so certainly NOT mild symptoms)

.. and this is undoubtedly just the start of the wave

 

CORONAVIRUS.DATA.GOV.UK

Official Coronavirus (COVID-19) disease situation dashboard with latest data in the UK.

 

Some better news although I have been seeing some reports in this area that dont quite tie together

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Super immunity may be sparked by getting Covid while double-vaccinated

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Meanwhile back in the People’s Republic further diktats appear

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59741680

 

Dripfords excelled himself this time

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Dripford is unreal, unless you live in Wales you cannot grasp the muppetry and control freakery of El presidente of the new labour/Plaid Coalition Junta.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Seems they are available for short spells am, but quickly run out of slots

Still nothing for pick-up

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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11 hours ago, brassnecked said:

Dripford is unreal, unless you live in Wales you cannot grasp the muppetry and control freakery of El presidente of the new labour/Plaid Coalition Junta.

 

You do realise you are saying that to someone living under Johnson and his civil war cabal, for whom simple muppetry would be a vast improvement

 

1 minute ago, honeybee13 said:

Is that LFTs, TJ?

 

Yes

 

  • Haha 1

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Both are equally dire then TJ, latest muppetry work from home or get a fine.

 

 

"The Welsh government has already amended legislation to enforce its work from home rules. 

It has made attending a workplace unnecessarily a criminal offence, with people facing fines for breaking the law. 

The amended legislation states that 'no person may leave the place where they are living, or remain away from that place, for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services' when it is 'reasonably practicable' to do so from home."

 

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

People must work from home unless there is "a reasonable excuse" with fines for bosses and workers.

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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.. Like pritti patels 'opinion being law

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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35 minutes ago, brassnecked said:

Both are equally dire then TJ, latest muppetry work from home or get a fine.

 

 

"The Welsh government has already amended legislation to enforce its work from home rules. 

It has made attending a workplace unnecessarily a criminal offence, with people facing fines for breaking the law. 

The amended legislation states that 'no person may leave the place where they are living, or remain away from that place, for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services' when it is 'reasonably practicable' to do so from home."

 

WWW.BBC.CO.UK

People must work from home unless there is "a reasonable excuse" with fines for bosses and workers.

 

 

 

Raise you

 

WWW.MSN.COM

You start at the bottom. There you’ll find the non-party party room. That’s where 50 people who don’t exist gathered for a party that...

 

WWW.MIRROR.CO.UK

Boris Johnson has made a lot of claims in the 2019 general election - and not to mention long before that. We've run the rule over 60 of...

 

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While the Liberal Democrats' victory in North Shropshire was a shock for the political set, it was a different story for many locals

 

 

CHISWICKCALENDAR.CO.UK

Image above: Boris Johnson Lies cartoon my Martin Rowson Our prime minister tells lies. That is a fact, proven over and over again...

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Prominent Tory's falsehoods range from incorrect 14th century history to the EU banana police

 

WWW.ITV.COM

Transparency International UK said those with political access appeared to be favoured. | ITV National News

 

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Prominent Tory's falsehoods range from incorrect 14th century history to the EU banana police

 

 

and thats just for starters

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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and we haven't even really started yet on

 

Proposals tp sink/push back boats in the channel

Deporting people who have lived their whole lives here

Corruption between politicians and the met

Giving taxpayer funded low cost loans to tory pals who donate after receiving loan

The real extent of ppe contract corruption

Breaching international agreements

Making the UK look like useless gutless yellow dogs in Afghanistan

 

WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM

The London Economic - PPE Medpro - which has no history of delivering PPE - also has two directors resident in the Isle of Man -...

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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and dont forget that the only reason Johnson isnt doing the same as drayhorse is that

1. He's been caught AGAIN abusing his own rules (and not just a cultural Diwali dance faux pas)

2. A rebellion from his own right wing as they wants peasants earning them money and dont give a crap about them getting ill or dying

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Don't get me wrong, its absolutely certain that should anything even approaching a judicial review which johnson doesn't squash occurs, Johnson and crew will undoubtedly claim incompetent muppetry as an excuse:

 

Johnson when asked to explain:

How could anyone (that means me) know that we were routing taxpayer money to my childs godfathers Tax haven registered companies, which had never dealt in PPE before and had only been created 3 weeks before they were granted 7 * £150M contracts - that you know about so far?

 

OK Boris, perhaps explain why other UK companies who were in the PPE supply chain and had bothe resources and experience were stonewalled

 

Boris

How was i supposed to know that if they weren't at the christening?

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Just released : latest WHO guidance on masks.

 

(community link first)

 

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-IPC_masks-2021.1


guideline covers healthcare settings, the public / community settings, with advice for adults, children, and younger children.

 

(Want to know what goes into an effective fabric mask for the general public? This shows / tells you ……)

 

guidance for healthcare settings

https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/WHO-2019-nCoV-IPC_Masks-Health_Workers-Omicron_variant-2021.1

 

Edited by BazzaS
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Seeing reports in the papers about what family have been saying for a week

 

10% of Consultants already off sick with positive covid tests, and clinics etc being cancelled hand over fist

Staff positive tests rising almost exponentially

  • Like 1

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Quite surprised at the Inde presenting the following article as presented, which is a rehash of prior half truths, with no real support but MANY issues, presented by a guy who quite categorically stated he believed the UK would be free of corona virus by last August

 

That ALL the vaccines generate long term immunity through T-cells etc despite a falling off of initial VERY large amounts of anti-bodies in the bloodstream which are quite confidently understood to curb infection/spread

- that the O/AZ vaccine does this is true, that it does it better that either mRNA or the traditional dead virus vaccines is neither proven, evidenced  or a scientific likelihood based on my understanding.

 

 

WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK

Clive Dix said the durable cellular immunity response produced by the AZ jab can potentially ‘last for life’.

 

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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I guess at this stage anybody could claim that immunity from any source could 'potentially' last for life.  It's like using the word 'allegedly'.

 

So far down this seemingly never ending road and it's still a case of pick your favoured expert/opinion.  Don't think that's going to change any time soon.

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Perhaps if there were less Dix clouding the water, we wouldn't be seeing that..

He was apparently also pressuring for GSK vaccines to be fast tracked .. while his company was working with GSK - another Paterson IMO

 

Simple facts now - the o/AZ has been proven less effective than the mRNA vaccines in first line defense anti-body creation

 

They all (vaccines) generate a long term bodily response in most people, and the evidence so far points to the mRNA vaccines being better NOT the O/AZ

 

The evidence so far also overwhelmingly shows that mRNA vaccines are the best of the bunch against the omicron 

 

 

So that Dix is talking crap .. and not presenting any significant evidence to support his rubbish .. again .. having at best a small amount of out of proper context, carefully selected subset, of some data

 

 

What are we actually seeing (apart from the current mRNA vaccines being the best of what is currently available)

 

We aren't seeing the massive increase in hospitalisations ... yet

Why not?

 

1. Maybe omicron is an initially less (at least immediately) damaging variant despite the science saying the opposite is likely

 

2. More likely, the vastly wider inoculation and pre infection has given some level of resistance to severe infection .. as well as 150,000 of the most vulnerable already being beyond infection aka dead.

 

3. Very likely - its early days and it will get worse

 

4. Most likely - 2 +3

 

 

Consider even if Omicron is 50-60% LESS deadly. its 250% more infectious and is very capable of reinfecting. I now know personally a couple who have tested positive twice despite being fully and early vaccinated

 

 

and these goddamn stupid page changes have resulted in the page loading forever again with the christmas format eding up with a tint slider bar as it loads its crap forever

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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I'll leave this here for any comments, its not any deniasl of Covid, merely  a Public health Professional's opinion.

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As the Covid scenario emerges into what is very clearly a new phase, there seems to be attempts in certain quarters to rewrite history, in...

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thats the same on both sides @BN

with 'lead scientists' being quoted as saying that 'Omicron only generates mild disease'

 

Heres the facts

 

Omicron should cause more severe disease accoerding to its 'makeup', but doesn't seem to be at the moment in thjese early days

 

Why?

 

1. Its early days

2. Very high levels of inoculation here - there isnt in many parts of the world despite rich nations throwing vaccine doses away

3. 150,000+ of the most vulnerable are already dead

4. Only seem to be looking at 'severe disease' as 'it quickly clogs your lungs and chokes you to death' but we have already seen, and as separately referred by @hightailthat Omincrom doesn't seem to do that

  4a. No one seems to be looking at the inconvenient FACT that nervous system and brain/heart damage is an identified (if largely ignored) characteristic of Covid-19

5. Spread = mutations

 

So does 'Omicron' generate mild disease?

Almost certainly - No - the vast majority (still to be confirmed) of vaccinated/prior infection survivors MAY only show mild disease. At least so far and for which there may be MANY other factors - like many still observing other mitigations.

 

Even that is still VERY uncertain, and the other damage which may be being done to the major organs and nervous system of the infected seems to be entirely ignored, as is the Virus' well documented tendency to mutate around prior resistance.

 

.. particularly as there are no lfts to be had for pick up or delivery again.

 

Edited by tobyjugg2

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Oh, and despite the figures being horrendous - over 100,000 infections a day and approaching 150 deaths a day at last count

and over half the current infections apparently being in the double jabbed

 

Did you know that RE-infections apparently aren't counted despite that being a calling card of Omicron?

 

 

Edited by tobyjugg2
  • Like 1

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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Appears that Boris Johnson may now lead England in a herd immunity direction, with reduced requirements to isolate following a positive Covid test.

 

Australia and parts of Canada have already taken this decision.

 

Very risky to gamble on not having too many requiring Hospital treatment.

 

And also risky to have large numbers of staff who are too unwell to work.

 

Think if I were PM, I would reintroduce more requirements and close some indoor venues for a period in January. And Government would then have to financially support those that cannot trade.

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"Over the past three weeks, as Omicron-related cases soared in New York City and elsewhere, the number of children hospitalised in New York with Covid-19 quadrupled, the state health department said.

 

The California state epidemiologist Dr Erica Pan wrote on Twitter: “Unfortunately New York is seeing an increase in pediatric hospitalisations (primarily amongst the unvaccinated), and they have similar [five- to 11-year-old] vaccination rates.”

 

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

Omicron threat stokes fears coast to coast but leading public health expert says ‘We know how to keep schools open and safe’

 

  • Sad 1

The Tory Legacy

Record high Taxes, Immigration, Excrement in waterways, energy company/crony profits

Record low: living standards and investment

Crumbling Hospitals, Schools, council services, businesses and roads

 

If only the Govt had thrown a protective ring around care homes with the same gusto they do around their crooked MPs

“This is specifically not allowed. Mr. Mansour used to be a Cabinet Minister in Egypt, he has given the Tories a huge amount of money, and immediately gets a knighthood.

That seems straightforwardly corrupt.  Shouldn’t they both be in jail?”

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If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

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