Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

I called my GP surgery and offered to jump in car and turn up at no notice if they got no shows and was told 'thats simply not happening'

When I pointed out that the BBC had raised the issue I was quite bruskly interrupted (unusual at my surgery) and told the media is spouting rubbish which is helping no-one.

 

I do know that hospital/vaccination center staff are/have been given doses from failed attendances. presumably managed locally

 

We need to understand that patients can call again, but the vaccination doses are and will remain for some time limited

and waste (including relying on others turning up after one failure to turn up) is to be avoided at all costs

 

There is also the issue of managing the second dose (errr) for those who are given one out of sequence. Let alone any questions regarding that being 'approved'

 

 

Personally I would be happy getting one dose early whatever happened later.

 (one different vaccine, two matching, no other, whatever)

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.biospace.com/article/comparing-covid-19-vaccines-pfizer-biontech-moderna-astrazeneca-oxford-j-and-j-russia-s-sputnik-v/

[hightail]

I read this morning that ‘a cabinet minister’ has complained that over 70s are being contacted before all over 80s have been vaccinated.  It’s beyond all sense to me that a vaccination programme should be slowed or halted for any reason except safety.  I accept there’s a pecking order and we’d like to adhere to some notion of fairness where possible but this is a pure numbers game surely.

Edited January 19, 2021 by hightail

[tobyjugg2]

If its a 'cabinet minister' then its a poop-ulist

We shouldn't expect reasonableness or common sense let alone competence, or anything other than self interest and self promotion.

 

oops - and their private sector mates ewho will pay them megabucks for a few hours a year roles

- as long as its not their money thats wasted

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-test-and-trace-dido-harding-b1789098.html

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[brassnecked]

Quack quack Oops

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1385916/matt-hancock-coronavirus-self-isolating-covid19-uk-government-boris-johnson

[tobyjugg2]

has he been tested/vaccinated?

Might drive some sense into the poopulists if he gets really ill (second time around) and that might even change some perspectives ..

... neerrr its handcock - nobody cares

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Still - could be worse

If it was Corbyn he'd have his brother running the Track, Trace and chop down 4g and 5g telegraph poles department

... and immunising with tin foil hats ..

 

bacofoil shares through the roof ... and shortages

... Used hats recycled to cook your chicken in

... is that white pepper coating your chicken ... no just dandruff

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Dr Jenny Harries, the deputy chief medical officer for England on the use of lateral flow tests in schools:

 

"What we are finding is it is highly effective, at probably around 80-85%, in picking up cases at their most infectious period"

 

1. Rubbish - the figures I've seen are that even with high viral loads the effectiveness is well below those 'probably around' figures she states

2. Where are the stats on what viral loads children carry to support her use? What I've seen is that kids commonly have lower viral loads when infected but are still infectious

3. What the crap is the deputy chief medical officer doing using 'probably' 'around' and fake figures in attempts to drive policy?

 

whatsup? Has whitty and Vallence refused to spout this nonesense so they called in more compliant backup?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/14/regulator-refuses-to-approve-mass-covid-testing-schools-in-england

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

I thought Jenny Harries was awful during the first wave.  As you say, TJ, those are nothing like the figures I've seen for LFTs. Several times I've read that they're being used for the wrong purpose, particularly in schools IIRC.

[tobyjugg2]

Lateral flow test are so inaccurate, its questionable that they are of any use at all

ACTUAL test figures show they miss around 30% of high viral loads and 60% (more than half) of lower viral loads.

 

I was expecting the accuracy to quickly start to improve .. but that doesn't seem to be the case.

They miss 3 out of 10 HIGH viral loads - crazy

 

What I haven't seen is stats on how many of those high (let alone low) viral loads that falsely tested negative actually had symptoms

If its quite a few then LFT would possibly seem to present more danger than benefits.

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

George Osborne, the Conservative former chancellor, has suggested that cabinet ministers - or at least some of them - should get priority for the vaccine.

 

NOPE

Last - very last - end of the queue

They are most able to work remotely, have no excuses whatsoever for not applying the distancing rules handcock would appear to have demonstrably breached,  and are all well paid (even the poorest Labour MP) and paid whether they are at work or not.

 

LAST in the queue.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[brassnecked]

Agree in principle TJ but if there are any nasty side effects, let them face them before anyone else is affected by them.

[citizenB]

11 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

George Osborne, the Conservative former chancellor, has suggested that cabinet ministers - or at least some of them - should get priority for the vaccine.

 

NOPE

Last - very last - end of the queue

They are most able to work remotely, have no excuses whatsoever for not applying the distancing rules handcock would appear to have demonstrably breached,  and are all well paid (even the poorest Labour MP) and paid whether they are at work or not.

 

LAST in the queue.

 

so, which 'some of them' gets the vaccine as priority then ? 

[honeybee13]

Cabinet ministers over 75, CB?

[tobyjugg2]

more very bad news which dramatically changes my perspectives

Single Covid vaccine dose in Israel 'less effective than we thought'

"In remarks reported by Army Radio, Nachman Ash said a single dose appeared “less effective than we had thought”, and also lower than Pfizer had suggested.

By contrast, those who had received their second dose of the Pfizer vaccine had a six- to 12-fold increase in antibodies, according to data released by Sheba Medical Center in Tel Hashomer on Monday."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/single-covid-vaccine-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

12 minutes ago, tobyjugg2 said:

more very bad news which dramatically changes my perspectives

Is there data anywhere on how effective each vaccine is in the various age groups?  It did cross my mind a few days ago that the numbers we've been fed are unlikely to be accurate for the currently targetted demographic.  How many over 80s were there in the original test groups?

[tobyjugg2]

There must be, but what I've seen is patchwork/filtered/munged data

 

It also seems that a high % of the Israeli infections are apparently reported as the Johnson/Handcock/Kent variant

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jan/19/ministers-set-to-halt-plans-for-daily-covid-tests-in-english-schools

 

Seems to indicate the the lateral flow tests for schools was intended to be used as an all clear, rather than as an extra trap.

Recipe for disaster that approach.

 

A further nail in the deputy chief lie mongers' flagrant mis-assertions of suitability.

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/21/covid-cases-may-have-stopped-falling-major-english-survey-shows

 

Covid cases may have stopped falling? What the ...

 

No sh** sherlock is all I can say!

Anyone actually think covid cases have been doing anything but increasing this year?

(even considering hospitalisations and deaths lag behind infections)

 

 

[honeybee13]

I didn't really get that either, TJ.

 

Changing the subject a little, here's an article in the Independent that says anyone who gives a second vaccination before the 12 weeks stipulated will lose their licence. As you know, I have reservations about this length of wait working with the Pfizer vaccine, at least and this seems draconian.

 

So how come Stanley Johnson has already had both jabs? It can't be 12 weeks in between.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-vaccines-nhs-hospitals-second-dose-b1790217.html?r=22629

[citizenB]

On 19/01/2021 at 13:54, honeybee13 said:

Cabinet ministers over 75, CB?

Righto.  I guess that covers the house of Lords as well ? 

[honeybee13]

...and another Tory donor gets a large contract to organise staff for the vaccination programme.

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-tory-donor-lord-ashcrofts-outsourcing-firm-given-350m-vaccination-contract/

[hightail]

7 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Changing the subject a little, here's an article in the Independent that says anyone who gives a second vaccination before the 12 weeks stipulated will lose their licence. As you know, I have reservations about this length of wait working with the Pfizer vaccine, at least and this seems draconian.

It does seem draconion and like you I'm very wary of how effective a single dose can be with any of the currently available vaccines.  Certainly with any other vaccination programme straying outside the manufacturers recommendations means you must start the course all over again.  No ifs, no buts, no 'a government wants to make up the rules'.  The scientists are warning that the current vaccination programme doesn't mean we can relax the rules - what's the point of it then?

[tobyjugg2]

O/H has had first pfiser covid dose today, DIL had it a week ago  (both patient facing NHS)

DIL had the relatively minor sore arm issues for half a day so its ... probably ... not psychosomatic

 

J&J vaccine coming along.

O/AZ is also being made and distributed in India with India selling on to others although significantly, its not approved in the EU or US.

 

Express and mail (and other usual poopulist/nutter cheerleader rags and web pages ) are spinning conspiracy crap around O/AZ NOT being approved elsewhere ...

.. but there is more justification for conspiracy crap around its early approval here it seems to me ..  .

and the lack of approval in the US and EU seems unquestionably tied to those (dodgy?) O/AZ test data issues

 

 

[hightail]

12 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

and the lack of approval in the US and EU seems unquestionably tied to those (dodgy?) O/AZ test data issues

I don't think we have any reliable data for a single dose of any vaccine so far.  What we do have from the current protocol are great figures for how many people have received a single shot.  I'm concerned that's more useful for political propoganda than medical efficacy.