Mutating Corona Virus

[brassnecked]

My bad HB Typo should be 100%

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, brassnecked said:

Partamedic mate saw the Info sheet for healthcare professionals and said no way was he having the Pfizer jab.

 

Did your mate clarify on the reasoning at all BN?

 

(I've read a couple of them)

[brassnecked]

Something to do with trying for children and a pregnant wife.

[tobyjugg2]

quite right then - largely same with all the new covid vaccines

- Mainly no data on effect

[tobyjugg2]

actually looks to me as if Johnsons cronies have read just the summary bit of the following, copied it and called it a plan

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm695152e2.htm?s_cid=mm695152e2_w

[tobyjugg2]

and around 2.8 million people already inoculated in the US - following the clear PLAN

Not as many as they wanted - but an impressive start

 

About 600,000 for the UK isnt it?

[hightail]

20 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

question: How come there are such varied claims on its efficacy

Answer: well there were different tests and they were all done differently so the data we put together to claim certain percentages really cant be put together.

I do think the fog surrounding the efficacy of the Oxford vaccine is playing into the hands of the anti vaxxers.  Even I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the risk of being made to queue in a crowd for ages for a single dose of something when I've no idea of the reward.

[tobyjugg2]

excellent points - and add that to all the x-files type conspiracy theories about the vaccines tagging people or the intent of the vaccine is infecting people - being presented everywhere on 'social con-media

 

It is worthwhile thinking back to the early statements about a vaccine:

That if it had an efficacy of over 50% it would be worth having

- although i don't really understand what the efficacy percentages really mean even if I didn't believe that they were being manipulated/used improperly (I do understand the definitions - just not how they are being used)

from what I can see so far, a single dose of the oxford vaccine will probably have between 60-70% 'efficacy' after 21 days and for 3 months with reasonable certainty - from what i can see.

 

I do accept that the single dose to as many people as possible priority is the right one, provided a proper plan and some faith in the management of that plan appeared - don't see that as yet

There is some evidence around that if you dont get the 2nd dose within 12 weeks (in non technical terms) give the body some extra practice then the body does tend to start to forget what it learned/decides it was a one off that isnt worth investing an immune response in.

 

The pfizer vaccine presentations and reports look Ok to me (in relation to emergency vaccine implementations and tests)

The oxford ones don't as yet - Not just due to lack of proper quality information but also due to the conflicts seemingly apparent in what we do know

 

That presentation yesterday was ridiculous

Another example:

q. How can we know that the vaccine has met all requirements and is tested properly given the lack of information which should have been presented

A. Take my word for it as a representative of Johnson

Q. We need more

A. We will present more sometime in the future

Edited December 31, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

as China reports the first incidence of the 'Handcock' Covid strain

[wry]

[honeybee13]

Radio5 had an intensive care doctor on earlier, complaining about people not respecting the rules and spreading the virus. It's a bit ranty but you can't blame him IMHO.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55479018

[hightail]

5 hours ago, tobyjugg2 said:

It is worthwhile thinking back to the early statements about a vaccine:

That if it had an efficacy of over 50% it would be worth having

Does that mean only 50% of those vaccinated gain some protection or that everyone vaccinated then has the chance of serious disease reduced by 50%.  If it's the former I'm putting myself at risk for maybe no protection at all.  I can completely understand why a government would go with either scenario but currently I have a near 100% chance of not getting covid because I don't go out so why would I put myself at risk? 

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.analyticsinsight.net/what-does-vaccine-efficacy-mean-in-covid-19-vaccines-clinical-trials/

 

What 70% efficacy broadly means is that 7 out of 10 people who would have caught covid would be protected in laboratory test conditions

Largely a statistical calculation.

Real world condition (efficiency) can be quite different and is far more complex - but initial assumptions are that it will be similar.

 

The widely variant and largely unexplained differences in the results of the O/A (Oxford/Astra-Zenica) vaccine trials make even that expected approximation largely meaningless.

They have juggled the results left right and centre to come up with the figures they release.

 

IMO You simply dont hide clear statements on results if there is nothing to hide

- provided you have them.

and If they dont have those clear results - then the trials are not adequately completed and they are lying when they say they have been, and people should be made aware of that and not treated as some lab rat in a tin pot dictators secret laboratories.l

 

The horrendous (re)growing situation undoubtedly warrants a large amount of leeway - but NOT on honesty and trustworthiness.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Oh and worth a read.. relevance to Covid other than general?

The prior linked report that gave a possible/probable linked between remdisvir and the accelerated development of the new London Covid strain

... particularly in regard to rich people who can simply afford to buy it and go ski-ing perhaps ?

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/12/27/super-gonorrhea-may-be-spreading-from-antibiotic-overuse-for-covid-19-coronavirus/

[tobyjugg2]

Some possible good news

 

https://www.euronews.com/2020/12/31/turkish-scientists-say-they-ve-developed-a-10-second-covid-19-test-that-is-99-accurate

[honeybee13]

Let's hear it for Turkish scientists again.

[tobyjugg2]

University of Maryland was working on this back in May

Wonder what happened?

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200529150643.htm

[brassnecked]

Money for cronies in the PCR testing?

[tobyjugg2]

groundwork? - detail VERY technical, but overviews not so much

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c02439

 

Struggling to find whats happened follow up wise with the maryland report although the 'lead' has set up a number of companies

[tobyjugg2]

For your friend to read BN

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/12/27/the-covid-19-vaccine-does-not-cause-infertility-heres-why-people-think-it-does/

 

it corrected or updated some of my information of the issues. S/He might find it useful

[tobyjugg2]

Anybody know how Handcock can claim there have been over a million covid injections in the UK when we have only apparently had 800,000 doses distributed?

.. well apart from him lying .

 

Seems the US is looking at possibly halving the doses to double the inoculations

Not aware of all the ins and outs - but seems a plan to me.

Even/Especially given the somewhat poopoo'd claims of higher efficacy with a half dose?

 

Does seem half doses aren't less protection (even if they aren't more protection) from what I can see.

[unclebulgaria67]

Seems a lockdown is on the way for England, with Boris possibly making an announcement later.

 

According to media reports most primary schools in tier 4 areas will be staying closed to all children apart from those from key workers.  

 

Given virus numbers have accelerated, you would think SAGE would have been shouting at Government to implement a quick lockdown. And I think any Government resistance to this will be removed early this week, as most of England would be in tier 4 anyway.

 

 

[honeybee13]

I like the new avatar, UB.

 

Independent SAGE have been calling for firm action for a while. They're worried that schools haven't been Covid-proofed and published a plan back in November.

 

https://www.independentsage.org/an-urgent-plan-for-safer-schools/

[tobyjugg2]

They are keeping them open to generate new versions of the virus - like they did with London - according to some.

I'm not poopooing those opinions any more because there seems to be no other opinion that makes more 'sense'.

[honeybee13]

I'll probably regret asking, but why do they want new versions of the virus, TJ? Allegedly.

[tobyjugg2]

I'd guess that it supports their culling the herd hypothesis

 

I think its simply that the Johnson populists are resisting any investment in teaching kids just like they resisted attempts to feed them - 'their schools have plenty of funds, food, laptops and private testing machines

and just like they continue to resist any real investment in the NHS while 'investing 12 billion in Serco trace a test

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by tobyjugg2