Mutating Corona Virus

[hightail]

The law was put in place right back at the start to allow people suspected of having the virus to be removed from being a danger to the public.  Having someone knock on your door as part of the test and trace system is pretty mild in comparison.  It would be far more effective and convenient for the public.

 

Testing centres are not staffed by medical professionals.

 

Voluntary testing only is why we can’t get this under control.  Those who are prepared to go through hours of trying to get tested are the few.  There are many more who either don’t know or don’t care they are infecting others.

 

 

.

Edited October 14, 2020 by hightail

[cjcregg]

11 minutes ago, hightail said:

The law was put in place right back at the start to allow people suspected of having the virus to be removed from being a danger to the public.  Having someone knock on your door as part of the test and trace system is pretty mild in comparison.  It would be far more effective and convenient for the public.

 

 

Compulsory medical testing would require some serous primary legislation. It wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance of being passed. I doubt there would be a single Tory MP who would vote for it.

 

 

 

 

[hightail]

They already have months ago.  Anyone ‘suspected’ of having the virus is already considered a danger to the public and there’s much more than being tested can happen.

Edited October 14, 2020 by hightail

[cjcregg]

On 12/10/2020 at 17:35, honeybee13 said:

I'm honestly confused as to why testing is targeted at those who show outward signs of the disease

 

 

It's not. I don't have symptoms but have been invited to take part in the REACT study which is conducting antigen and antibody tests https://www.reactstudy.org/

[hightail]

2 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

 

It's not. I don't have symptoms but have been invited to take part in the REACT study which is conducting antigen and antibody tests https://www.reactstudy.org/

So has my neighbour, it’s completely random.  Isn’t anything to do with stopping the spread of the disease.

[cjcregg]

6 minutes ago, hightail said:

They already have months ago.  Anyone ‘suspected’ of having the virus is already considered a danger to the public and there’s much more than being tested can happen.

 

 

''Taking a test is completely voluntary and you do not have to take it'' 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-testing-privacy-information/testing-for-coronavirus-privacy-information#:~:text=Taking a test is completely,take following your result.

 

 

 

[cjcregg]

5 minutes ago, hightail said:

 Isn’t anything to do with stopping the spread of the disease.

 

''As the Government plans strategies to ease lockdown, it is vital to understand how many people have been or are currently infected with the coronavirus. This will help guide policies on continued social distancing and other control measures.''

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/faqs/

 

Sounds like they seem to think it is. Why else would they do it?

Edited October 14, 2020 by cjcregg

[hightail]

Just now, cjcregg said:

 

''As the Government plans strategies to ease lockdown, it is vital to understand how many people have been or are currently infected with the coronavirus. This will help guide policies on continued social distancing and other control measures.''

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/faqs/

 

Sounds like they seem to think it is.

What use do you believe retrospective data gathering is in the middle of a pandemic?  It will give them an idea of herd immunity and if repeated how long individual immunity may last.  It’s of no immediate use.

[cjcregg]

6 minutes ago, hightail said:

What use do you believe retrospective data gathering is in the middle of a pandemic? 

 

How do you mean 'retrospective'? 

 

It's a ''Real-time Assessment of Community Transmission''  https://www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/

 

 

[hightail]

3 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

 

How do you mean 'retrospective'? 

 

It's a ''Real-time Assessment of Community Transmission''  https://www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/

 

 

The antibody test shows if you had the virus, not if you have it.  It looks backwards.

[hightail]

Of all the current research and studies at least this one has something of a feelgood factor

 

https://www.virusdogs.com/

 

Could be be very useful at airports and ports.

[cjcregg]

9 minutes ago, hightail said:

The antibody test shows if you had the virus, not if you have it.  It looks backwards.

 

That's the REACT2 study but you're misunderstanding the purpose of it. Most of it isn't to find out if you had the virus. It's to test the methodology & accuracy of various tests. So it's not testing people as such but testing the tests themselves. Only then will the study move on to actually testing people for results.

 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/medicine/research-and-impact/groups/react-study/the-react-2-programme/

 

That's not looking backwards. It's looking forwards.

[tobyjugg2]

1 hour ago, hightail said:

What use do you believe retrospective data gathering is in the middle of a pandemic?  It will give them an idea of herd immunity and if repeated how long individual immunity may last.  It’s of no immediate use.

 

Absolutely.

and given the growing bodies of evidence regarding mutating strains and lack of ongoing resistance - as with other coronavirus like influenza - even Cummings should have realised that by now.

... although as hightail quite correctly says - done properly the information is valuable - just less relevant to infection testing and immediate management in the current pandemic ...

 

.. Although added to the real current infection test stats as it is though - it does makes the daily 'tests done' artificially look a little less anaemic -

at least 40,000 of the claimed tests as antibody/antigen tests was the last figure I saw - and ARE included in the daily 'tests made' counts.

 

Apparently blood donations are also tested - and probably including in the claimed test stats to boost them

Its getting clearer and clearer that the actual 'currently infected' tests seem to be around an utterly pitiful 80,000 a day.

- and even that pitiful count was prior to the issues with test chemicals supply chain shortage/mismanagement

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8175037/Testing-shambles-spirals-desperate-Boris-Johnson-blames-chemical-shortage.html

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/mystery-surrounds-uk-claim-of-covid-19-test-reagent-shortage/4011457.article

 

https://blogs.webmd.com/public-health/20201007/how-do-i-get-an-antibody-test

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Worth a read for a non technical overview of the state of play including the option used by the Orang-e-tan

(despite horror from his evangelical supporters who are perhaps beginning to see him as a shape shifting baby eater)

Uk pronunciation: Orangey-tan

US pronounciation: O-rang-eetan

Common usage:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/12/health/coronavirus-monoclonal-antibodies-trump.html

 

 

Early data/assesments on herd immunity in readable form

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/breaking-covid-19-immunity-new-study-that-is-yet-to-be-peer-reviewed-says-humans-may-never-develop-immunity-against-covid-19

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/covid-19-headlines-why-is-dr-fauci-now-distancing-himself-from-an-earlier-t-cell-immunity-hypothesis-he-was-previously-peddling

 

Further reading - technical but very interesting  (inc Covid  pain killer and using aids type invasion mechanisms)

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/covid-19-latest-more-antibody-resistant-sars-cov-2-mutated-strains-emerging-and-increasing-in-circulation

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/covid-19-bradykinin-storm-hypothesis-gaining-stronghold-among-medical-community-and-offers-new-avenues-for-treatments-using-already-approved-drugs

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[brassnecked]

Drakeford bans English & Scottish from hotspots from entering Wales  Of course in North Wales there are a great many who work in the English Hotspots and commute daily...........

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/wales-to-ban-visitors-from-covid-hotspots-in-england

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54540764

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8839829/Wales-ban-people-parts-UK-high-Covid-rates-entering.html

[honeybee13]

It's interesting to see the other side of the story, BN, I wasn't aware of that.

 

In any case, how do they plan to police this?

 

 

 

 

 

[brassnecked]

With great difficulty, as the "For Work or Education" exemption still applies, but Drakeford would like to close that and stop all movement out of the home county.  lee has to go to London next week and Edinburgh week after to sort out site IT, he cannot stay overnight, as overnight stays in Tier 2/3 hotspots not permitted, so might have to go to Scotland with him, kip in car and drive back, while he kips.

[honeybee13]

Prof Anthony Costello, ex WHO, has written an article in the Guardian about how a properly functioning test, trace and isolate, TTI system could save having blanket lockdowns.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/14/circuit-breaker-england-test-and-trace-reform-lockdown-sage

[hightail]

8 minutes ago, honeybee13 said:

Prof Anthony Costello, ex WHO, has written an article in the Guardian about how a properly functioning test, trace and isolate, TTI system could save having blanket lockdowns.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/14/circuit-breaker-england-test-and-trace-reform-lockdown-sage

Blanket lockdowns are a blunt tool and they can't work in the longer term if you plan on lifting them without having properly traced and isolated.  They leave no exit strategy other than the hope of a vaccine and frankly that too is looking less and less likely.  I think the best we can hope for on that front is one that gives some limited protection over winter and is given to the old and vulnerable along with the flu vaccine.  Therest are just going to have to learn to live with the virus.

 

 

[honeybee13]

Paul Johnson has quoted this on Twitter.

 

‘Contractual penalties are often unenforceable under English law so they were not included in test and trace contracts with Serco or Sitel’ - Helen Whatley, Health Minister

 

As he says, 'At best odd. At worst criminal. And the sytem is failing.'

[tobyjugg2]

The core is almost complete and utter mismanagement from day one and continuing to this day - nothing at all new for Johnson projects,

Enabling private companies to make money from taxpayers in delivering little or nothing, while Johnson lies through his teeth - is what he does and always has.

 

Only difference in the last year is that now millions more lives are blighted and thousands of people are dying, many of which were avoidable by anyone competent.

As always, doing it properly, even with the mistakes inevitable in addressing a somewhat new type of outbreak would have cost less, saved lives and actually promoted him more and been a positive legacy for him

- but no - wing it, waffle and watch the chaos as others suffer always has been and will always be his legacy

 

I see the orang-e-tan has jumped back aboard the 'herd immunity' bandwagon again now he's had his millions of dollars worth worth of life saving drugs treatment intervention for himself.

Edited October 15, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

and it would seem that the second home/parents estate that cummings went to when lockdown was in place for the rest of us, was built breeching planning regs AND they have been avoiding paying council tax ...

 

No penalties to be imposed of course, not even back dating the avoided council tax charges - not even to when the complaint was raised.

They can't be expected to be treated like the rest of us can they?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/14/dominic-cummings-must-pay-council-tax-on-second-home-in-durham

 

Dominic Cummings allowed to avoid YEARS of  backdated council tax on second home he spent lockdown in

Government agency rules No 10 adviser must now pay tax on Durham property built without permission in 2002

 

 

"The issue was referred to the VOA in June after Durham county council found there had been historical breaches of planning and building control regulation during the construction of the property and the conversion of another into two homes. At the time the council said it could not take enforcement action against the family because of a time limit on such measures.

The council has now confirmed that after the VOA’s ruling, the Cummings family will, from this month, have to pay three separate council tax bills for the homes at North Lodge, instead of the one bill the family has been paying until now."

Edited October 15, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

That's so wrong, TJ.

 

I can't link to it as I'm about to go out, but a lady who is on benefits was jailed for owing under £5,000. One rule for them...

[brassnecked]

In the bailiff archive you will find threads where a Liability Order was sought for a debt of £1 and escalated to over £400 when the bailiff knocked, North East Lincolnshire Council was one that did just that.

 

Mind you in a funny moment, a pub landlord has renamed his pub The Three Bellends, with images of Johnson, Hancock and Cummings, who would look perfect as a garden Gnome as a Spitting Image puppet

 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/14/wirral-pub-mocks-three-bellends-johnson-hancock-and-cummings-with-new-sign-13423981/

[tobyjugg2]

Private sector consultants to 'NHS' aka Handcock and Sercos Trace a Test failures are being paid the equivalent of a £1.5m salary, SkyNews revealed.