Mutating Corona Virus

[brassnecked]

They will move that to 8 pm,. and ratchet it into another Lockdown,  and total curfew where to go to work you vill have to have  papers to show the police, you are out legitimately

[cjcregg]

9 hours ago, London1971 said:

The thing that gets me is what good does closing a pub at 10pm do? Does the Virus only work nights?

 

I think it's because pubs are a major source of transmission so presumably shorter opening times = less infections.

[honeybee13]

Possbly to compensate for possible Covid positive patients coming from hospitals, care home are being told to suspend family visits, according to the Telegraph.

 

So untested transfer patients can come in but family can't? This doesn't make sense to me.

[tobyjugg2]

11 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

Words fail me. Channel4 has got hold of information from Trafford council that their care homes are being told to take patients from hospitals 'who may be Covid positive'.

 

Nothing has been learned from last time.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-local-authority-calls-on-care-home-providers-to-accept-covid-positive-hospital-patients

 

 

Just a little clarity on where the instructions came from - NOT local authorities

 

"UK government guidance updated on September 16 *reiterates* that care homes in England should be prepared to accept COVID-19 positive patients from hospitals."

 

The rules never really changed that UK gov directed infected people back to care homes, it was just that in the early days of the pandemic, the people/patients weren't even tested

- NOW the patients covid status should have been tested at some stage proved tests were available

 

- it was just the practise started to change once the 'peak' temporarily subsided - hospitals decided not to send them out despite 'guidance/instructions' and then with increased news reports the practice became a political hot potato

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-for-stepdown-of-infection-control-precautions-within-hospitals-and-discharging-covid-19-patients-from-hospital-to-home-settings/guidance-for-stepdown-of-infection-control-precautions-and-discharging-covid-19-patients

 

"Therefore, it is recommended that all patients with COVID-19 who have been admitted to hospital should be isolated within hospital or remain in self-isolation on discharge for 14 days from their first positive SARS-CoV-2 PCR test, compared to the 10 day isolation rule for patients with milder disease managed in the community."

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-adult-social-care-action-plan

 

 

Re-Reinforcing the 'rules' is likely preparing for the fats approaching fresh crisis in hospital beds.

 

So I think whats actually changed is the obergruppenfeurer pressing that the orders 'vill be obeyed'

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Well, you have to hope that care homes can isolate people coming out of hospital and have enough PPE this time.

 

We know someone who works in a care home and they had PPE diverted last time, for a Nightingale hospital that was hardly used.

[tobyjugg2]

Interestingly, the guidance states that care homes can refuse to accept discharged patients although that would clearly put them in a very dark light and handcock and co would no doubt to to fry them in the media/parliamentary questions if they do

- in addition to the strain it puts on the patients.

 

Where is the extra capacity that the summer 'lull' should have allowed to be put in place?

- China managed to build whole hospitals during the pandemic

All we've 'built is some Lorry park fields - displacing covid testing stations

Edited September 18, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Changing the subject slightly, very senior people in the NHS asked Ireland for help with Covid lab tests. This tweet also says Ireland has spent the summer building up to 100,000 tests a day which is impressive for the size of their population.

 

Twitter thread from the BBC's Faisal Islam.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Didn't dodo harding 'promise' yesterday that daily covid stats would be restarting - yet only gave the ones for the week 10th sept?

 

I still dont see any. Have I missed them or was that anther handcockian 'sometime in the coming months and decades announcement?

Lets hope they include number of failed attempts to book a test

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

11 hours ago, London1971 said:

The thing that gets me is what good does closing a pub at 10pm do? Does the Virus only work nights?

That does make some sense to me.  The drunker people get the less likely they are to attempt any level of social distancing, behaviour in general deteriorates. It’s also why ‘table service only’ is introduced.  

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Oh - and has everyone noticed that the claimed 'capacity has 'adjusted' from handcocks regular claims of (2x-ish) 300,000 down to a less overstated 245,000?

[tobyjugg2]

Outstandingly outrageous quotes:

 

“I don’t think anybody was expecting to see the really sizeable increase in demand that we’ve seen over the course of the last few weeks”

- Dido Harding

 

Well - it was maybe a week or two at most early dodo .. but given pubs opening, kids returning to school and those darn grouse shooter raves boom boom booming .. entirely expected by anyone with a working brain - and would have been thoroughly prepared for by anyone competent

- really seems to have caught you/handcock/johnson flat footed though eh:

 

* Claimed capacity reduced from 300,000 to 245,000

 

* trying to make the public (and NHS staff) travel more than 160 miles for tests

- even when local tests WERE actually available and could be booked if you knew how to avoid the trap

- - must be more attempts to justify/mask the cummings trip

 

* Still not even temperature checks at schools or stores or transport hubs

- even if they only trap 30% of the infected - it would be the ones most likely to be spreaders

 

 

“This is the core point: when something is provided for free and demand is therefore high"

- Handcock the {phallic insult} on tests

 

- lining up to to charge for tests and an exceptionally feeble excuse for his failures?

- particularly given his own instructions to 'get a test'

 

[London1971]

3 hours ago, cjcregg said:

 

I think it's because pubs are a major source of transmission so presumably shorter opening times = less infections.

All for nought , the only way to stop this now is by imposing a national lock down, the public feel safe right now, that's why it's so dangerous, social distancing has gone out of the window. That's the one thing delaying a lock down. Unfortunately, ghoulish as it sounds the public won't be on board until suddenly hundreds are dying in hospital. Nothing else will stop Bob having his Friday night booze fest with his mates down the dog and duck.

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

Fiona Bruce question time

'Latest gov figures 81,000 people a day actually being tested

Compare THAT figure to other countries

[tobyjugg2]

can you see see that vid? - I cant - just getting the audio

Edited September 18, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

20 minutes ago, London1971 said:

All for nought , the only way to stop this now is by imposing a national lock down

Maybe they're hoping the threat of it is enough. 

The next major issue will be the collapse of Universal Credit as many thousands of jobs are lost once furlough ends.  They'll claim they couldn't see that coming too.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by hightail

[tobyjugg2]

There will be 'expected delays beyond the x weeks people are already expected to wait for needed benefits due to the entirely unexpected increase in unemployment and the Government deeply regret the people affected and their children starving and being thrown out on the street

 

Johnsons' back to the good old days as related by Dickens

Edited September 18, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Anyway, about time it was said straight

 

The Governments' claimed 'Capacity figures aren't 'interpretations,' they are outright lies

Capacity by definition is "the ability to receive or contain" - and its collapsing at little more than 80,000 a day at best.

There may be 120,000ish 'tests' - but Governments own figures as stated quite clearly state 81,000 people tested a day (is that best, or average?)

 

So by definition and example (artificially holding back results to boost a single days figures aside)

- 80,000ish a day would seem to be the actual true capacity of the UK's testing system to test people - even if certain parts of it MIGHT theoretically be capable of more

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

According to the data published today, an average of 6,000 people in England were infected per day between September 4 to 10.

... (1-2 weeks ago - so extrapolate)

 

The rise appears to be driven by an increase in the number of people testing positive aged 2 to 11, 17 to 24 years and 25 to 34 years.

 

via Paul Waugh

 

 

Now I'm hearing some truly disturbing reports about testing/isolating (lack of) surrounding this - but I'll try and do some confirming...

[unclebulgaria67]

Full UK national lock down for 2 weeks possibly happening soon.  This may or may not include school and non essential shops.

 

Would people support this, if this was likely to reduce numbers infected by virus during a 'second wave' ?

 

Or is a lock down only likely to have a temporary effect and therefore it is not worth doing ?

 

I could see a national lockdown end of next week or week after, given the sharp rise in infections over the recent week. 

[tobyjugg2]

a two week lockdown without a vaccine or REAL increased test capacity at the end of those two weeks is largely pointless.

We are at the start of the upsurge - and especially if schools aren't better protected.

 

- look at the figures showing the increase in young person infections and those figures are massively artificially low due to the policy of telling people they cant have a test if they dont have symptoms, and no tests available anyway.

 

What we need is competent leadership who have other than their own interests at heart - and we simply dont have it.

 

On the infection stats

Given the guesstimate that only 30% show symptoms, and the policies, that infection rate needs to be multiplied by 3 at least - even if everyone that thought they needed one got a test - and they aren't.

Edited September 19, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[brassnecked]

Acerbic takedown of Muppet Johnsn, and the Data Loss Dido debacle mthat is test & Trace. Dr North asks what will they do imposing telephone number fines that people can't pay?   Well maybe they send in bailiffs to evict them and snatch their home if an Owner Occupier?  Off to prison if tenant and all goods taken and sold under a new emergency power given to bailiffs to take the lot regardless?  The bailiff firms will love that, they have been doing no business recently.

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/corona/coronavirus-the-cummings-dividend/

[unclebulgaria67]

@tobyjugg2 It has been decided that you will now be responsible for deciding on the Covid-19 measures that Government will apply to England.   What measures will you introduce ?

 

If it were me deciding, I think I would enforce PPE requirements in any place that is open to the public and that includes schools.    So both Children and all school staff would have to wear face masks and those that cannot wear masks due to a health condition, should not be attending school anyway.   In terms of how to enforce. I would employ more Council enforcement officers, with the power to issue £100 penalties to people and £1000 to any company/organisation.   These penalties would increase for second, third and subsequent offences.

 

This virus is going to be with us for months or years, so we might as well  get used to having to excercise reasonable precautions.   Lock downs should be used when they need to deploy a fire break to try to deal with the virus spread in areas.

[tobyjugg2]

1 minute ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

@tobyjugg2 It has been decided that you will now be responsible for deciding on the Covid-19 measures that Government will apply to England.   What measures will you introduce ?

 

1 minute ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

If it were me deciding, I think I would enforce PPE requirements in any place that is open to the public and that includes schools.   

So both Children and all school staff would have to wear face masks and those that cannot wear masks due to a health condition, should not be attending school anyway.   

 

In terms of how to enforce. I would employ more Council enforcement officers, with the power to issue £100 penalties to people and £1000 to any company/organisation.   These penalties would increase for second, third and subsequent offences.

 

Facemasks +1

 

*NO1

Implement the VERY cheap and easy temperature checks on all people entering schools, supermarkets, transport hubs, all frontline staff before starting work every shift/day etc - as many countries already have. 'Technical options like thermal scanners at airports/transport hubs should have been in for 3 months now at least. Supermarkets implementeda necessary delivery before - use for those that fail.

- As repeatedly stated, wont get everyone, but it would get in the order of 30% and those the ones most likely to spread, its cheap and very easy to implement- apart from food market rejections - which might require a member of staff to actually get their shopping for them..

- Alongside the actual benefits - Just imagine what peace of mind a temperature check would give to most people

 

* Honest presentation of the facts - which would themselves justify local lockdowns and empower proper management of the epidemic

 

* All front line staff swab tested at least weekly and more often as necessary which will require ..

 

* Actually increase test capacity rather than just lie about it - why can India do more tests than our rich nation?

- Is it that nobody trusts Johnson to actually pay the bills for goods and services received?

 

* Everyone who is ordered to isolate after a positive test gets national minimum wage payments (in mind of mortgage holidays etc) from day 1 - no more- no less (its one of my pet issues which my lefty friends disagree with)

-  - that national minimum wage is too low is another issue.

+ people who breach those self isolation rules - heavy fines and tracking ankle bracelets monitoring their isolation - what they are doing IS at least as criminal as drivining a car deliberately dangerously and putting lives at risk -- if they are being paid (every 7th day - 2 payments) at least minimum wage to stay at home from day 1.

 

* Cant emphasize this enough - Honest presentation of the facts - which would themselves justify local lockdowns and empower proper management of the epidemic

 

* Implement home schooling with proper checks on progress and work  as some schools have. leave the school spaces for thiose that really need them. Maybe even give tax breaks for home schooled families based on results.

- what cost a tablet loaded and checked each week with a months school work for each kid - even if the kids tabs need to go to school grounds once a week (month if necessary) to upload tests/work and download the next batch of work from a school server?

 

All the above should have been in place for months now, or last month at the very latest. None are rocket science.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, unclebulgaria67 said:

 

This virus is going to be with us for months or years, so we might as well  get used to having to excercise reasonable precautions.   Lock downs should be used when they need to deploy a fire break to try to deal with the virus spread in areas.

 

+1

Yes - as is the next one. These sort of infections are NOT going to go away - quite the opposite.

China is implementing localised lockdowns with perhaps limited success - but the operating point there is 'success' - which is what we need to build on - not build on failures, cover-ups and lies

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/stag-hunt-hunting-coronavirus-devon-somerset-mask-league-cruel-sport-b503028.html

Coronavirus: Over 120 people meet for stag hunt 'making mockery of social sacrifices by others'

"Exclusive: Dozens socialised without masks in gathering that ‘flew in face of spirit of restrictions’ "

 

"About 130 people met for a stag hunt, almost all not wearing masks, in scenes critics said “made a mockery of the social sacrifices” of others to limit the spread of coronavirus.

The Devon and Somerset Staghounds, who recently received a £10,000 grant and a £50,000 loan from taxpayer-backed coronavirus schemes, attracted dozens of followers when they hunted on Thursday."

 

https://chochilino.com/2020/09/20/coronavirus-over-120-people-meet-for-stag-hunt-making-mockery-of-social-sacrifices-by-others/

 

"Mr Tillsley said he saw hunters and followers this week mixing as they waited for about an hour for a stag to be tracked down for the hunt to begin."

"around 30 on horses, with 70 cars (each with more than one follower in) and a number of quad bikes.

 

"Although the government has reduced the number of people allowed to meet from 30 to six, it has exempted sports in groups of more than six, and includes hunting and shooting in that list. It is not clear whether such activities are still restricted to 30 people."

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/over-120-people-meet-for-stag-hunt-that-got-10000-grant-50000-taxpayer-backed-coronavirus-loan/20/09/

 

""It makes a mockery of the sacrifices people are making around the country to limit gatherings and stop the spread of the disease.""

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[brassnecked]

Bet they didn't get fined TJ  Anyway, a good take here on the mess, Dr North has coiuned a name for the Jounson, Hancock double act, Johncock, and Dido is called a female sex aid https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/corona/coronavirus-a-few-modest-proposals/