Mutating Corona Virus

[tobyjugg2]

mmm

 

https://www.pestfix.co.uk/coronavirus-personal-kit----face-masks-and-alcohol-sanitiser.asp

 

Cheaper at Aldi Under 6 quid for ten if I remember rightly - thats 30 quid for 50

plus less than a quid for the tiny bottle of sanitizer or a bit more for a much bigger one

 

 

Should have gone to Aldi Boris.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brassnecked]

He wasn't up to much  between that case and now though, it seemed.  That PPE malarkey needs sorting there is something dodgy and an inkling of spivvery there.

[honeybee13]

More than an inkling IMO. Still, it's only £400m or so of taxpayers' money...

[brassnecked]

Peanuts to what they are paying Serco for various other contracts with Track & Trace, and housing asylum seekers.

[honeybee13]

It's still lost money though, it could have been spent on something worthwhile, BN.

 

When I said £400m, I was including Pestfix and the confectionary wholesaler whose name I can never remember.

 

No wonder the government wants to get rid of judicial reviews.

[tobyjugg2]

Its what you get when 'the government' is prepared to lie through its teeth, then carry on lying through its teeth, whatever the cost to anyone else, to cover up their lies

 

Remember all the PPE that handcock claimed was coming from Turkey?

*while UK manufactured PPE was going abroad as the UK gov ignored offers from the manufacturers)

 

... and Turkey saying 'they asked us yesterday a week later

Then planes sent over to bring back almost sod all and most of that not suitable ...

 

Remember the easiest deal in history, us holding all the cards, which will give us EU market access without the costs and with deals across the world larger than the EU

.. and now the Johnson muppet show can't even negotiate 'the easiest deal in history' when he has 'all the cards' - including a majority in the UK

 

There's statistics, lies, damn lies, and then theres everything that comes out of johnsons' gob for which there is simply no appropriately derogatory term

 

'Johnson said' should become Synonymous with talking utter incompetent  lying sh** continuously, unashamedly and unapologetically for a lifetime

 

[honeybee13]

Meanwhile, Fullfact have caught the government out lying about testing numbers in England. Minister Nick Gibb claimed 330,000 a day and Fullfact say it's 52,000.

 

https://fullfact.org/health/nick-gibb-330000/

[tobyjugg2]

 

Even claiming 300,000 a day capacity is clearly just lying as amply demonstrated on days when there are no tests available.

 

Actual real achievable reasonably consistent maximum capacity to actually test people unquestionably seems to be around 80,000 a day.

 

3 years none stop testing to test the UK population just once.

[honeybee13]

Anthony Costello of Indie Sage has slated the management of Covid so far.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/07/covid-uk-quarantine-government-coronavirus-isolate

[brassnecked]

Dr North's take here, can't really disagree with him

 

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/corona/coronavirus-about-time/

[honeybee13]

He's very angry, isn't he? But I can't disagree with him either.

[brassnecked]

He has been pushing that viewpoint from the beginning of the crisis.

[tobyjugg2]

Revealed: UK's rapid Covid test not yet approved by regulators

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/07/revealed-uk-rapid-covid-test-not-yet-approved-by-regulators

 

 

Must read:

https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/news/deals/uk-bets-nanopore-and-nudge-rapid-covid-19-tests

 

Advert:

https://www.businessinnovationmag.co.uk/government-picks-oxford-nanopores-tech-in-roll-out-of-new-covid-19-test/

 

 

Looks to me like the 'roll-out' is a testing phase ...

 

 

 

Background info

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/standard-coronavirus-test-if-available-works-well-can-new-diagnostics-help-pandemic

Edited August 7, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[cjcregg]

[honeybee13]

Independent Sage met yesterday and has a new report out.

 

They think the national test and trace system doesn't work and are urging the government not to renew Serco's contract. They say the job should be done by GPs and local public health people who are already deal with the more complex cases and care homes.

 

https://www.independentsage.org/an-independent-sage-discussion-document-on-contact-tracing-and-self-isolation/

[brassnecked]

Serco are not up to the job, but director's of Serco are buddies with Ministers handing out contracts like confetti on the back of Covid.  Track & Trace and Isolate should be a LA competence, not private firms on the make.

 

Interesting blog today, the genesis of the crisis started with Blair in 2005, subsequent administrations did nothing to improve responses to pandemic.

 

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/corona/scared-to-death/

 

 

[unclebulgaria67]

When will most schools actually re-open in September ?

 

And when they open, will they be providing teaching over the number hours 9am to 3pm  ?

 

I am thinking of the school I attended, which was a large Victorian building, with many modern extensions.  The classrooms which could accommodate about 35 Children elbow to elbow, will only be able to accommodate 20 at the most with any reasonable distancing.   Or does the whole class  of say 35 stay in a bubble and the teachers move around to teach the different subjects ? 

 

I can see many schools opening later in September, not for all pupils for all days and not doing the full hours.

 

This is going to be very difficult to manage for all those concerned, including parents looking to return to work. 

 

 

[honeybee13]

To me, it isn't just about social distancing and hygiene measures. I'm far from the first to say it but until there's a reliable track and trace system, I don't think this can be managed properly.

 

Children may not suffer as much as adults, although some do, they can be asymptomatic and pass on the virus to the rest of the family.

 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/lockdown-david-king-second-wave-18739973

[tobyjugg2]

"Ministers have rejected a call from the children’s commissioner for England to bring in routine coronavirus testing in English schools."

 

"Nick Gibb, the schools minister, confirmed that teachers and pupils in England will not have access to routine testing when they reopen in September and will instead be reliant primarily on hygiene and distancing measures to control any spread of the virus."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/09/ministers-reject-call-for-weekly-covid-19-testing-in-english-schools

 

"New swab tests to confirm within 90 minutes if someone has Covid-19, as well as testing for flu, will be rolled out from next week, but Gibb confirmed that these would not as yet be used in schools."

 

Now I agree that getting our kids educated SAFELY should be our number ONE priority ..

But sending kids back into schools without a proper testing and monitoring regime to protect not just the children and teachers, but the families the children will return to, is not just 'morally indefensible' its criminal.

 

And effectively saying 'we'll test them once they show symptoms and have had time to spread it ... is beyond simply criminal.

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

Criminal is probably spot on, TJ. I don't get why they think it's OK to do this.

[cjcregg]

Is there any evidence that mass speculative testing is an effective strategy in reducing transmission?

[honeybee13]

49 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

Is there any evidence that mass speculative testing is an effective strategy in reducing transmission?

 

I don't think there is.

 

For my part I'm talking about targeted testing and tracing that's done locally. Speculative testing sounds like the Deloitte type car park testing centres who then don't send test results to local public health people who are able to act promptly if they're informed, or at best sent to them too late to be of any use.

[tobyjugg2]

32 minutes ago, cjcregg said:

Is there any evidence that mass speculative testing is an effective strategy in reducing transmission?

 

 

I think any decent person would say that people should have been 'speculatively' tested before they were sent back from hospital into care homes given the evidence we have seen,

and that people returning from international 'hot spots' should have been 'speculatively' tested

 

... even if the common sense of it didn't break through at the time, and even given the more limited claims of testing effectiveness at the time.

 

and most would maybe even see, in the light of information we now have, (care homes and even luxury liners)

- that a regular regime of testing, would have almost certainly easily saved thousands of lives.

 

Now apply that to schools - hundreds of children all together in a small area, going home without 14 day self isolations  - or even going home to 14 day isolation to their siblings and parents and a home environment.

 

 

Of course there is 'little actual evidence' of kids being seriously ill and dying in this precise situation is there cjregg - as they have been locked down,

but then again there is no direct evidence that you jumping off a precisely 500 foot cliff would harm you in any way is there ...

Bet you wouldn't though.

 

I'm nominating you for the monthly 'Johnson says' award in the junior class cjregg ...

 

[unclebulgaria67]

This is what I think will happen.

 

Schools will be told by ministers that they have to open for all pupils, unless there is a local lock down in operation.  And pupils will be required to attend, unless they have confirmed health condition, where Doctors have advised against attendance.  Parents will face fines for not ensuring their Children attend.

 

Trace, trace system relies on people reporting and having tests done.  Many people who think they just have seasonal colds/flu won't bother to report or have tests done.  Plus many people with Covid-19 don't feel any symptoms, but have been found by recent research to be just as good at infecting others, as those with identifiable symptoms. 

 

I can see many localised lock downs been implemented in a sporadic way  and it will make it incredibly difficult for people.  And for organisations and business, the on/off nature of the lock downs will be worse than having a lock down for say 1 month..   If for example,  you had a school based in one city area that was not subject to lock down, but a number of teachers lived in a lock down area, you would question whether they should be commuting to work.  Is the journey essential, risk of spreading virus risk?    

 

Hope that Government have really detailed guidance and plans to deal with all of the issues that people are going to face in only a months time.  As soon as you have millions of people meeting in classrooms around  the country and then returning home to family, there is reasonable expectation of the virus numbers increasing.  And flowing from that you will have the many sporadic lock downs which will be very difficult to manage. 

[tobyjugg2]

They've already presented most of para 1 Unc,

 

but this is what worries me given the intent to not test:

"On average, the coronavirus accumulates about two changes per month in its genome. "

 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/pandemic-virus-slowly-mutating-it-getting-more-dangerous

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293453/

 

 

Whats that going to do with a couple of million kids with undevloped immune systems to work with?

Let alone the rest of their families, and whoever they come into contact with

 

 

 

So with no testing until an outbreak is well in progress, and The 'world beating' Johnson waffle ap and surrounding quiz and barbecue trace infrastructure already quite clearly demonstrated it neither trustworthy, or up to the task even if it were 'trusted.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/05/englands-contact-tracers-making-handful-of-calls-a-month

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/08/just-10-enforcement-orders-issued-for-breach-of-uk-quarantine-rules