Mutating Corona Virus

[honeybee13]

For anyone who's interested, Christina Pagel has a selection of graphs for the UK and other countries on this Twitter thread, posted on 24th July.

 

https://twitter.com/independentsage?lang=en

[brassnecked]

No long berore Sturgeon puts her 14 day quarantine on Sassenachs coming in to Scotland then.

[tobyjugg2]

anyone know how Johnson intends to deal with people (eg his dad) who travel to other countries before travelling on - to avoid any restrictions?

 

[honeybee13]

Ignore the problem like the Russia report?

 

I'm not sure how it can be policed if it's booked online with two different airlines, say.

[tobyjugg2]

 

A test on return perhaps?

With people held in hotels until the test result which should be within 24 hours

 

.. y'now a sensible definitive and effective approach for a change ..

 

 

perhaps they will take the sensible approach to get Shapps out of the thick of it being as he ignored his own advise to everyone else not to travel abroad ...

[honeybee13]

Did he tell people not to travel abroad? I must have missed that.

 

Am I a cynic for thinking that the air corridors were invented for ministers wanting to go on holiday?

[tobyjugg2]

Oh yes

"With one sentence and a chuckle, the transport secretary crushed the hopes of the UK travel industry for an early resumption in anything like normal business.

Grant Shapps was talking to Nick Robinson on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme about a possible resumption of activity when the UK’s current lockdown ends on 7 May."

 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/transport-secretary-grant-shapps-summer-holiday-a9469946.html

“I won’t be booking a summer holiday at this point, let’s put it that way.” said Shapps

 

 

If you google you will also see him saying Johnson snr was fine with his travel fiddling, and that travel advise 'was optional'

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1304498/grant-shapps-travel-advice-stanley-johnson-boris-coronavirus

 

 

So did Stanley Johnson self isolate for 14 days on return, ...  anyone?

Edited July 26, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

I haven't seen anything about that - is he back in the UK?

[tobyjugg2]

Dunno, maybe he just wandered around the world for a couple of weeks to avoid actually being locked down to prevent spread

unlike us mere mortals are  ..

 

 

A quick search seems to indicate he carries on doing whatever he liked:

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=stanley+johnson+lockdown&t=ffsb&ia=web

 

One example

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1279577/Stanley-Johnson-breaks-lockdown-rules-Boris-Johnson-baby-Wilfred-GMB-ITV

 

 

.

[honeybee13]

Yes. One rule for them and another for the rest of us. It's not right.

[tobyjugg2]

Still find it difficult to believe that people returning are just 'told they should self isolate for 14 days and sent of to wherever, however to do whatever without even the two minute swab test.

 

All those people have to get somewhere, somehow from the airport, with not a clue whether they are infected or not

 

If they are swabbed then at least once the results come back (if they don't lose them) they will have a start to the trace - and they will have  a good idea how much of an issue it really is  - even if they are then sent out to seed the rest of the herd on their way home.

 

Johnson/Handcock must believe either:

* the folk returning have a very low risk of infection and this Spanish lockdown is bluster and posturing

or

* that the herd isn't infected enough in the UK

 

Which is it - Method? or just populist madness?

The apparent approach certainly isn't sense or science.

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

I don't know if it's cock up or conspiracy but it's sounding like last time when HMG decided doing nothing was the easiest option - for them.

 

So far Indie Sage and John Ashton haven't said anything but I'm keeping an eye on their Twitter feeds.

[tobyjugg2]

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/22/no-10-denies-claim-dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

 

https://www.courthousenews.com/boris-johnsons-talk-of-herd-immunity-raises-alarms/

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1258644/Boris-Johnson-coronavirus-Dominic-Cummings-pensioners

 

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/03/17/1085943/covid-19-uks-herd-immunity-experiment

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/herd-immunity-was-never-uk-coronavirus-strategy-chief-scientific-adviser-says/

 

paywall

https://www.ft.com/content/38a81588-6508-11ea-b3f3-fe4680ea68b5

 

[honeybee13]

I remember that back in March. I wonder if Cummings ever understood herd immunity properly. Can a person be so evil that they don't care if tens of thousands of people die unnecessarily?

 

Here's some good news in all of this, Oxford University's Recovery programme.

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/26/the-observer-view-on-britains-covid-19-response-recovery

[brassnecked]

Cummings well deserves the nickname Demonic.

[honeybee13]

I know this article is about Brexit, but this is Jonathan Lis's view.

 

'Britain’s leaders are less villainous masterminds than lightweight incompetents.'

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/07/23/britain-is-back-on-the-road-to-the-brexit-cliff-edge-is-anyone-even-driving-the-car/

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, honeybee13 said:

I remember that back in March. I wonder if Cummings ever understood herd immunity properly. Can a person be so evil that they don't care if tens of thousands of people die unnecessarily?

 

Here's some good news in all of this, Oxford University's Recovery programme.

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/26/the-observer-view-on-britains-covid-19-response-recovery

 

 

Unequivocally demonstrates that there are still absolutely outstanding UK scientists and doctors

 

Shame Johnson doesn't want to find and listen to them.

... in fact carefully picks yes men twats to spout the advice he (Cummings) chooses

Edited July 27, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

If you return from Spain, get tested and test negative do you still have to isolate for 14 days?  If yes - why?

 

My granddaughter had a slightly raised temperature on waking from a nap at nursery, sent home and refused back until she (and parents) all tested negative.  Whole process took three days because of a weekend and others have been cleared within 24 hours.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by hightail

[unclebulgaria67]

Very good question. This is what happens when policy is made up as they go along. It may be a numbers/costs issue. Thousands of people will be landing back on a daily basis and if they offered a test (assuming most are negative)in lieu of 14 day quarantine, people would do that. Particularly if they will lose 14 days pay.

[tobyjugg2]

2 hours ago, hightail said:

If you return from Spain, get tested and test negative do you still have to isolate for 14 days?  If yes - why?

 

My granddaughter had a slightly raised temperature on waking from a nap at nursery, sent home and refused back until she (and parents) all tested negative.  Whole process took three days because of a weekend and others have been cleared within 24 hours.

 

 

 

I should imagine based on form so far that if you are a Johnson, Jenrick or Cummings then you do what you like anyway

If you are a mere mortal, you are still in lockdown even if tested negative unless clearly stated otherwise.

 

 

 

Lets examine the situation

If there are 100,000 people a day returning from Spain (or any other alleged hotspot), thats still less than half of the claimed daily testing capacity most of which is apparently NOT being used.

(Actually seems to be less than is NOT being used every day)

 

I see no reason why the returnees should not be prioritised in the testing as they are 'returning' from alleged higher risk zones, and are not in lockdown as any other non-returning from abroad test'ees already in the system should be.

Most have no other way to get a test apart from claiming symptoms.

 

The results should EASILY be done in less than 24 hours and not just in the the case of major airports, with minimal cost.

A small team to take the swaps, the swabs couriered to nearest labs while the returnees are lodged one night or at most two locally - being shipped to the holding hotel in a controlled way.

A needed boost to the hoteliers too (who pays - gov (taxpayer) does as they already are)

Not cost free, but whats the alternative

 

If they test negative, send them on their way and perhaps schedule a confirmatory 2nd test 5 days down the line. No lockdown until a positive result - but stress extra vigilence.

All controlled, the people affected mostly understanding that whats being done is competent, controlled  and necessary.

 

 

 

and I do understand the issues with people who simply don't trust this government with their swabs and medical data. I don't either.

Just like a police DNA test - there needs to be acceptable assurances over its use and retention

 

 

As it stands with Handcock/Johnson/Cummings plan :

100,000 potential pandemic seeds sent into the country to travel home every day, just like before

No lessons learnt.

 

What cost if the actual threat is real and cases increase do to the UK gov doing nowt but issuing an incompetent directive which their own people will probably breach anyway?

£10M, £100M? A lot more than that I think.

What cost to the UK's already shredded standing?

 

But they seem to be choosing to issue a directive and abdicating responsibility and avoiding the real issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[honeybee13]

More on the quarantine confusion. Spain have provided region by region Covid numbers and pointed out that six of their regions are better off than the UK.

 

Airlines UK are asking for airport testing, as TJ suggested.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/uk-extends-spain-travel-advice-holiday-islands-canary-balearics-coronavirus

[brassnecked]

Maybe better to holiday in UK?  Oops wait a minute, Wee Krankie might yet put a 14 Day quarantine on visitors from England Wales & NI.

[honeybee13]

Wee Nicola has handled the epidemic reasonably well, I think. Better than no 10 anyway.

 

They said yesterday that anyone booking a holiday abroad does so at their own risk - very sympathetic. Aren't they the ones that wanted to get the travel industry working again?

 

That said, I don't think I would leave the country if it meant quarantine on my return, plus it's good to support UK tourism.

[brassnecked]

Yes only issue with Sturgeon is she is so intent on pushing Independence, any and all crises are a tool she uses to chip away.  Johnson & hancock have not handled it well, mind you they planned for the wrong disease and are still floundering around trying to use a flu plan for a SARS.

[tobyjugg2]

Surprised anyone dare travel anywhere with 100,000 untested potential pandemic seeds wandering across Britain every day, perhaps to their first second or third homes and stopping off for an eyetest and the children to have a P here and there and of course dropping off at work on the way ....

 

 

Oh - and stopping off at the supermarkets for essential supplies of course ..

Edited July 28, 2020 by tobyjugg2