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    • Hello there,  I would be most grateful for any help or views on a distressing incident that occurred last summer, I can supply more info.  I am a 70 years old retired man and quite severely disabled I use a Mobilty Scooter and walking aids.  I had recently been admitted to hospital with an ongoing heart condition.     I was quite a frequent customer of my local Pub/Restaurant and I had previously submitted several verbal complaints regarding short measures of drinks.  The both managers took exception to this and told me that I was "Never happy until I found something to moan about"  The atmosphere in the Pub generally declined towards myself and I was certainly made to feel unwelcome.  Matters came to a head when I witnessed a dog, inside the Pub, attack a child (A Toddler) who had accidentally trodden on the Dog`s tail.  Fortunately the parents of the child and the owners of the dog reacted quickly and no injury occurred .  The pub was very busy at this time and the incident went somewhat unnoticed.  I brought the incident to the attention of one of the managers and he actually laughed, it was monstrous.  When the pub became quieter I remonstrated with the said manager and I stated that IMO it was dangerous to have dogs and children in such close proximity whist food is being served.  He became extremely unpleasant and told me in no uncertain terms that if I did not like it then to "Stop coming back"   Two days later whilst I was out in the next village with friends my wife rang to inform me that the Owner of the pub had called around to our home and told me wife that I was barred from the pub and to never venture there again; my wife was distressed, she never frequented the pub and the owner and my wife are not well known to each other.  It is my opinion that he had no right whatsoever, to include my wife in this matter and to do so within her own home whilst I was not present.      I returned home then went to the pub to enquire why the owner had visited my home, and upset my wife.  Whilst I was on the pub car park I was met by both the owner and the manager who both informed that I was barred as I had upset staff members.  No suitable explanation was forthcoming from the owner for the reason of his unwanted and unwelcome visit plus his aggressive manner whilst he talked down to my wife.  They both informed me that they would forcefully remove me if I did not leave the car park.   Due to the immense stress I was enduring I felt an urgent need to use the toilet, when i requested to do so I was denied.  I could not believe it, I was in such a hopeless state and was utterly distraught.  Finally I struggled out of the car park but entered the front of the pub and headed for the toilet however they caught up with me and I sat down on a stool and refused to move until i was granted access to the toilet, however they were both adamant that it would not be allowed.  I reminded them that i was disabled but the owner stated that I was `Milking It` and to "Go behind a hedge".  At least half an hour passed, since I had entered the pub, and the owner stated that he would call the Police, I had gathered my thoughts a little by this time and I stated to them that I would call the Police myself and then see if I would be allowed to use the toilets.  I feel the owner began to realise that he might be in trouble as when I began to make the phone call he stated that I could use the toilet however he would accompany me; i had no option but to concur with his somewhat sick condition.  I was forced to defecate whilst he stood immediately outside the door.  My humiliation and embarrassment was complete.    Two days later I wrote to the owner and informed that I was intending to sue him for disability discrimination related offences.  He chose to disregard what I had stated and replied stating that he had no intention of lifting the ban.  I replied stating that I had no desire to ever enter one of his pubs ever again and that he should re-read my letter and respond to the charges.  He did not reply.   I issued proceedings against him in the Small Claim Court for less than £400  (Some of my clothes and a she were damaged due to soiling).  He, rather surprisingly, instructed a solicitor who has threatened me with costs being awarded against me by the court which could run into many many thousands of pounds and that there was clearly no case for her client to answer.  I must admit to being rather alarmed.  The owner is a wealthy man.     The court have advised mediation and have even offered to award one hour of such FOC; I agreed, the defendant refused.  We now have a date for a hearing and I do not know exactly what to expect.  His court response states that he will be bringing two witnesses with him yet there was only he, the owner and the manager who were present.    Much of this was audio recorded and the owner is not disputing much of my statement.  I never threatened violence or used bad language during this most unpleasant incident.      Any help and opinions would be greatly appreciated.   Kind regards.  --  tibar
    • My friend has told them this and got no response as yet nor any refund,  she  is giving them till about 2pm  to refund it or   will be  reporting it as fraud and  seeing the Police etc, have told her please  do not ever  do it again or drag me into it, I will do my best keep you updated   Sandy xx
    • Make sure you keep that email and print it out for safe keeping, just in case the PPC don't quite get the message.
    • Okay i've just sent the letters recorded delivery and have registered with the claims court. Just reading about PAP.
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NPLondon

DHL Parcel mislabeled during customs clearance and sent to the wrong address

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The letter of claim can be sent by email. I don't see any problem with that.

Once again – to emphasise that although I expect you to win, there may be difficulty over the value you are claiming. Once again, we are simply giving volunteer advice – and the risks are yours.

If you want to take it more slowly – then of course you can, it's up to you. If you really want your items back then it certainly seems to me that pressure will have to be brought about on DHL to focus on the recipient – and also by you directly on the recipient as well. However, the items may well have gone by now. I can imagine that the recipient has already become alarmed by the approach from DHL and the letter that they will receive tomorrow from you won't help.

Of course the most sensible thing for them to do will be simply to say that it was a mistake and that they wanted to return the items to you all along. If that happened then we can simply turn to DHL and get some compensation for the trouble they have put you to – probably about £150


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Hi

 

With a SAR all you have to do is ask for 'ALL DATA' (this way it does not matter what format they hold that data whether it be digital, email, telephone calls (recorded), written etc).

 

They then have 30 Days to comply once they have acknowledged your SAR Request (that is unless they require ID Verification) which the 30 Days time limit does not start until they have verified your ID if requested)

 

Also can I add in DHL response in post#36 I hate it when any Company/Business etc. has the nerve to use the get out clause of 'Human Error'. 

 

This is not the case as it was 'Maladministration' by DHL' not 'Human Error' as stated to you, irrespective of who/which employee of DHL made the 'Human Error' the buck stops with DHL as who/which employee made that error was Employed by DHL.


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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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The latest from DHL Parcel:

 

Quote

 

Over the last 24 hours we have been able to make some progress on locating your item. For reasons that we are not able to understand at this point your shipment has had a duplicate shipment number with the shipment that was going to the address in Newcastle . We have video evidence of the item that was delivered to Newcastle (a jiffy bag) and video evidence of your item in our Dartford location. The yellow box with white fragile tape on it can clearly be seen on the conveyor system in the Dartford location.

 

Because of the duplication in tracking numbers the details you have seen on the web is the shipping details for the Newcastle shipment and not your delivery, the duplication of these numbers on the system would also not allow our Dartford location to deliver your item to you.

 

We have now determined that your item is currently in the process of being returned to the sender in Germany and from the tracking we can see it is currently in cologne awaiting to be processed. One of my colleagues in the international team is currently in contact with the returns team in cologne to try and locate the item so we can get it delivered to yourself.  

 

As soon as I get some positive information of when we can get it to you i will be back in contact

 

As I have previously stated we are very sorry about this , we are trying to do all we can to rectify this situation 

 

 

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I don’t know what to think about this. The chances that a pre-printed label issued in Germany exactly match a tracking number issued in the UK are remote. And even if this was an issue  and their systems suffered a meltdown and couldn't deliver it then why has the package been sitting in Dartford since the 8th January  despite having my address fully visible?

 

I will update here if there is any movement on the package - or if it makes an appearance. 

Edited by NPLondon

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It does sound odd, I agree. But if your package really is in Germany and can be redirected to you, at least your presents aren't lost. The WMF cutlery looks very unusual.

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I would suggest the following

 

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Dear Richard

It beggars belief that an outfit like DHL operate a system where it is possible to have two identical tracking numbers. I find myself very sceptical.

However, you say that you have found the parcel – and I hope it is in good condition – and I understand that you are arranging for it to be delivered to me. You are now aware of the value that I set by it .

 

In view of the fact that it now appears that the consignment may finally be on its way to me, I am suspending the effect of my letter of action which I sent to you yesterday – but make no mistake, I'm fully prepared to commence an action at the expiry of the 14 days – if I do not have my property returned to me.

I require you keep me fully up to date as to the movements of my belongings, that you provide me with a tracking number and also you arrange delivery by a responsible person into my hands – and by appointment so there is no further error.

As you can imagine I take a very grave view of what has happened. It has caused me a great deal of distress and also it has been unnecessarily time-consuming of my busy schedule. Furthermore, I had started to correspond with the person who you effectively identified as the recipient in the genuine belief that he had acted dishonestly – a conclusion which was entirely reasonable based on the information provided by DHL. The alleged recipient occupies a position of trust and this matter could have impacted very badly upon his circumstances merely as a result of the incorrect information provided by you. I'm sure that you can understand why this is a matter that I'm taking extremely seriously.

You can be certain that I shall be raising the subject of compensation with you once the parcel is safely in my hands. Please don't bother making any gesture of goodwill. The compensation that I will require will have to be discussed and agreed before I accept it and you can consider the matter closed.

Believe me

 

 

Assuming you get your property back, if you still have the appetite for it then I would suggest that you challenge them for compensation. In view of the problems they have caused, their negligence, the admission by them of their negligence, the extraordinary admission by them that they have a system which is able to generate two identical numbers, and given the cost to them of defending any action you might decide to bring for compensation, I would suggest £250.

On the other hand you may simply want a quiet life – and I wouldn't blame you.


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Chasing email above sent to DHL to find out where the parcel is:

 

Quote

 

It beggars belief that an outfit like DHL operate a system where it is possible to have two identical tracking numbers. I find myself very sceptical.

However, you say that you have found the parcel – and I hope it is in good condition – and I understand that you are arranging for it to be delivered to me. You are now aware of the value that I set by it.

 

In view of the fact that it now appears that the consignment may finally be on its way to me, I will suspend issuing my letter of action which is prepared and I was due to send to you  – but make no mistake, I'm fully prepared to commence action if my property is not returned to me.

I require you keep me fully up to date as to the movements of my belongings, that you provide me with a tracking number and also you arrange delivery by a responsible person into my hands – and by appointment so there is no further error. 

As you can imagine I take a very grave view of what has happened. It has caused me a great deal of distress and also it has been unnecessarily time-consuming in my busy schedule. Furthermore, I had started to correspond with the person who you effectively identified as the recipient in the genuine belief that he had acted dishonestly – a conclusion which was entirely reasonable based on the information provided by DHL. Furthermore, a police report has been filed and they are investigating the allegations. I'm sure that you can understand why this is a matter that I'm taking extremely seriously and the very complicated situation you have caused through your negligent handling of this parcel.

You can be certain that I shall be raising the subject of compensation with you once the parcel is safely in my hands. Please do not approach me with a gesture of goodwill. The compensation that I will require will have to be discussed and agreed before I accept it and you can consider the matter closed.

 

 

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No news from dhl after the email sent Friday morning. It’s getting on for nearly 3 weeks now since it was ‘delivered‘. If they know it’s in Cologne (as of Thursday 23 Jan) then why are there no updates... 

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I completely agree. At the very least they have admitted some incredible error and I think that they have a responsibility to keep you very closely updated.

 

It's up to you – but frankly I would be sending a letter of claim immediately. I still find it very interesting that the "apparent" recipient has blocked your communications. I think you should send broadly the letters that I suggested last week. It's a shame that they haven't already been sent – but in view of the new information that you have had from DHL, maybe that one can be tweaked. I wouldn't hang around any longer – but you may feel differently.


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I can't remember if the alleged recipient has heard about the alleged delivery from DHL. Is it possible they think the OP is trying to con them?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Here's a revised letter of claim to see if we can get some results:

 

Quote

 

Dear Richard
 
Further to my email of Friday 24th Jan 2020 I'm very sorry that you haven't responded with an update.   You stated on the 23rd January that you probably know the whereabouts of the parcel which was originally due to be delivered to me on the 8th January. However, since then you have failed to propose any solution or have been unable to confirm if you have actually located my belongings.
 
You have now said that the parcel might be in Cologne but I have heard nothing further. The sender of the parcel has also not received a revised tracking number or other any other updates whatsoever despite raising the issue more than once via your online reporting tool. 
 
As you know, DHL by their negligence created a situation whereby a parcel addressed to me was unable to be delivered due to an alleged issue with the tracking number that was duplicated with another delivery. This is resulted in all of us incorrectly assuming that the parcel had been delivered to an address in Whitley Bay, Tyne & Wear when in fact it had probably sat in your warehouse in Dartford for two weeks.
 
In your correspondence to me you have already admitted what has happened and that for whatever reason, DHL was responsible.
 
You are fully aware that the contents of the parcel include a set of silver-plated cutlery which has a special sentimental value to me, in addition to other items which the sender spent a great deal of time and effort selecting and which were sent to me by way of birthday gifts. Because the cutlery set was given to me specifically as a birthday gift and was inherited from her late step-mother, I have already explained to you that apart from the fact that I'm not aware that these items are available any more, they are irreplaceable to me.
 
You can imagine the distress I feel having to place a value on them but for the purposes of court procedure, I am identifying a figure of £2500 has a sum which might in some measure go towards compensating me for this loss.
 
Accordingly, I require that you send me a cheque for the above sum within 14 days and failing which I shall begin an action in the County Court in respect of your next and handling of my property and without any further notice.
 
I hope you can appreciate what a complicated situation you have created by your negligent handling of this matter and then your lack of cooperation in providing me with the information I need.
 
Please point out to your legal department that I am not prepared to receive any communications from you on a without prejudice basis. Everything is at large will be disclosed to the court if necessary.

 

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Dear Richard

 


Letter of claim

 


You have failed to respond to my email of Friday, 24 January 2020.

Although you have told me that you now know the whereabouts of my parcel you have failed to give me any further update. I have been in contact with the sender and they have heard nothing from you either.

You have now come out with a variety of explanations as to the reasons why my parcel has been lost. This has included implicating a third party in Newcastle and you should realise that as a result of the information you have given me, this person has been identified and the police have been called and are currently investigating.
If this person turns out to be not at all indicated then I hope you are starting to understand the seriousness of the situation you created and compounded by your various versions.
Your explanation that DHL has generated a duplicate tracking number is frankly highly unlikely.
I have already explained that the contents of the parcel have a special sentimental value to me and I'm sure that you would understand that both the sender of the parcel and myself are in great distress as a result of its possible loss.
Although it is difficult to place a value on an item which is of such special and emotional significance to me, I'm proposing to claim £2500 in the County Court and I'm sending you this letter as formal notice that you can avoid legal action by letting me have a cheque for this amount within 14 days.

Failing that I shall issue the claim and without any further notice

 

Please point out to your legal department that I am not prepared to receive any communications from you on a without prejudice basis. Everything is at large will be disclosed to the court if necessary.
 

 


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I suggest maybe that you now also write a letter to the alleged recipient. Inform them that rightly or wrongly they have been implicated in the disappearance of a plated cutlery set. That you have tried to reach them that you understand that they have blocked your correspondence.
As a result of the information received from DHL you have now informed the police and you understand that they are investigating.

I would suggest that you tell the alleged recipient that you will shortly be issuing court proceedings against DHL and that if the matter does come to a hearing that it is likely that they, the alleged recipient, will be identified and referred to in public documents.

Also, in respect of the police, I understand that you have reported this to the police and they undertook to contact you and to begin an investigation – and they have not contacted you. Surprise surprise!

I suggest that you get onto the police immediately chase them – by telephone and also in writing. Point out that you had a conversation on XXX date and you brought to their attention that according to DHL some valuable property of yours had been inadvertently delivered to the [alleged recipient] and that despite the fact that the officer involved promised to get back to you, they have not done so and so far you do not have a crime reference number. Tell them that this is essential that this matter is taken seriously because it is currently being taken to court.


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Thanks for the revision.

 

The other odd thing is that the recorded delivery letter I sent to the alleged recipient has never been signed for -  the tracking simply states 'we've got your item' although it was sent 1st class on Wed 22nd - it's now the 28th.  So I can only conclude that it was refused 

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claim letter sent as an email with signed PDF attached. Now waiting for a response....

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2 hours ago, NPLondon said:

Thanks for the revision.

 

The other odd thing is that the recorded delivery letter I sent to the alleged recipient has never been signed for -  the tracking simply states 'we've got your item' although it was sent 1st class on Wed 22nd - it's now the 28th.  So I can only conclude that it was refused 

 

Send a letter directly to the recipient based on the suggestion I have made a couple of posts ago. Send one recorded and one ordinary mail. Send a copy also to the HR Department of his workplace – but marked confidential on the envelope. Send that one recorded. This guy needs to get involved


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By the way, this is highly likely to result in a claim being issued. It's becoming more complicated than anybody ever imagined.

I suggest that you register with money claim online and start drafting your claim. And get ready to click it off on day 15.

You can save your work so that you can post your draft claim here. You find there is a character limit. I expect that we can fit it in to the limit that they give you if we avoid narrative


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1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

Send a letter directly to the recipient based on the suggestion I have made a couple of posts ago.

 

does it make sense that I include a hard copy of the german post office receipt and the image showing that my parcel was signed for at his address under my tracking number? It would at least validate why I'm in touch with them

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No I don't see any point in disclosing any information other than his name has been discussed in reference to this problem

Have you chased up Old Bill?


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22 hours ago, BankFodder said:

I suggest that you register with money claim online and start drafting your claim. And get ready to click it off on day 15.

You can save your work so that you can post your draft claim here. You find there is a character limit. I expect that we can fit it in to the limit that they give you if we avoid narrative

 

Started the claim procedure so it's now sitting there under 'claims history'. I'll post a synopsis so you can advise on what edits might be required

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Latest reply from DHL Parcel UK: 

 

Quote

 

Thank you for your email of 28 January 2020, the contents of which have been noted. As this is, at your request, open correspondence, it is useful to recap the chain of events. 

 

Firstly, you are not the Sender and therefore have no contract with DHL Parcel UK Limited. In fact, the Sender has no contract with DHL Parcel UK Limited, either. The Sender entered into a contract with Deutsche Post AG in Germany to send the Shipment to you in the UK.

 

Secondly, Our investigations have found that for some reason, a Shipment number was duplicated, probably in Germany with the result that the Shipment shared the same shipment number as one destined for Newcastle. Because DHL Parcel’s system assigns delivery information to the first shipment delivered, this led to the Newcastle shipments details being attached to the Shipment number. Because your Shipment was not delivered first, by the time it came to scan it, an error arose which then initiated normal processes for the return of the Shipment to the Sender.

 

Thirdly, at no point was the Shipment mis-delivered to the Newcastle address or lost. In fact, subsequent investigation revealed that the Shipment had been returned to Germany. Unfortunately, Germany (being a major hub for various DPDHL) networks is currently experiencing a backlog. Our current information is that the Shipment is awaiting processing to be returned to the UK, where DHL Parcel UK will then undertake to deliver the Shipment to you. 

 

Fourthly, in my email of 23 January 2020, I did make it clear to you that I would update you as soon as I had more news to share. It is regrettable that one of the consequences of repeatedly making queries with different people is that sometimes the ‘latest’ information is not the ‘best information’ and that this sometimes leads to misunderstandings that then cause anxiety in certain personalities. It was clear to me that information given to you in response to each of your queries in all good faith represented a ‘what we know at the time’ picture of events and this was the reason why, in my email of 23 January 2020, I specifically stated that I would update when I had solid information to share. 

 

So, in the interests of absolute clarity, the position of my email of 23 January 2020 has not changed. Your Shipment has been confirmed to be as being in Germany. Unfortunately there is a 13 day backlog in Germany that my German colleagues are working through but they have confirmed that as soon as they have processed it, the Shipment will be returned to the UK whereupon I will arrange its delivery to you. I am hopeful that I will get the Shipment sometime next week.  If there are any changes to the above in the meantime, I will contact you as soon as practicable.

 

For the sake of completeness, I’ve been asked to convey to you that any legal action will be vigorously defended and on that basis, you should know that as a recipient, you have no locus standi, as any contract would be between the Sender and Deutsche Post. In any event, the Shipment is not lost or damaged, so there is no identifiable loss that could be recovered in court. Your insistence on open correspondence means that you are hereby put on notice that you are now aware of your legal position and the Court will be made aware of this. In the event of our successful defence of any legal action by you, we also put you on notice that we will sue for our costs to the fullest extent permissible at law. 

 

I do not wish to end this email on a needlessly adversarial note. My focus is in getting the Shipment to you as soon as we receive it. The next week should hopefully resolve matters to your satisfaction. I would therefore be grateful for your patience and forbearance until then.

 

 

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Dear Richard, without trying to get into a game of ping-pong with you, if I sue you in contact I would be relying on the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act either in respect of the DHL contract with the sender – or else in respect of the contract that DHL UK has with their German partners.

In addition to that there is the question of negligence and that seems to me to be a suitable falback.

Furthermore, you had better explain to whatever legal advisor you are using about the small claims rules relating to costs.

My main complaint as you well know, apart from the chaos of the DHL systems, is that you are not keeping me up-to-date.

Keep me up to date then I will feel more relaxed about beginning an action against you.

I shall hold off issuing an action for the moment in view of your latest information. Keep me updated and keep me confident and there won't be much problem.

It's up to you

 


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Perhaps a new tracking number wouldn’t be a bad start. It must have some form of identification adhered to the parcel so they locate it within the 13 day DHL parcel mountain 

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Yes you are absolutely right. Maybe you could insert that into my suggested response.

The response was intended partly to be a response to them – but also to explain the situation to you. You're absolutely right that they should be able to give you a tracking number so that you can follow its passage.

Frankly I think it's outrageous that you are being required to queue up like this. It shows that they are in a real mess – and we will address that once you get the parcel – if you want to continue.


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I sent this email to follow up, let's see if they have a new tracking number, and it's not a duplicate...

 

Quote

Without trying to get into a game of ping-pong with you, if I sue you in contract I would be relying on the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act either in respect of the DHL contract with the sender – or else in respect of the contract that DHL UK has with their German partners.

In addition to that there is the question of negligence and that seems to me to be a suitable fallback. Furthermore, you had better explain to whatever legal advisor you are using about the small claims rules relating to costs.

My main complaint, as you well know, apart from the chaos of the DHL systems, is that you are not keeping me up-to-date.

Keep me up to date then I will feel more relaxed about beginning an action against you. Perhaps a revised tracking number would be a good start -  I’m assuming the parcel must have a new one so that you understand where it is in the DPDHL system? I can also forward this on to the sender who is also concerned of the three weeks that this parcel has been in transit. 

I shall hold off issuing an action for the moment in view of your latest information. Keep me updated and keep me confident and there won't be much problem.

 

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