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Second fare evasion forgot to tap on bus


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Oh sorry I meant I trimmed 100 words off.

It's now at a stage a tad longer than my first draft, 778 words.

 

Yes my GP letter confirms my conditions and that I have problems with my memory, as well as moving house on short notice.

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I asked earlier if they are considering proceeding with a strict liability offence.

my answer will depend on this.

 

if the (non- ‘strict liability’) ‘intent to avoid your fate’ : you deny the offence (as you had no intent to avoid your fate, and that is your defence if it goes to court)

 

if the strict liability : you don’t deny it (because you can’t unless you have one of the statutory defences: and having a medical condition isn’t a statutory defence)

 

That leaves you with admitting it, or just staying silent (and not adresssing admission or denial).

 

The risk to just staying silent is that it makes it less likely that they’ll believe you are contrite, so may be less inclined to offer an administrative settlement

Edited by BazzaS
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Sure HB. I can't see right now how many sides as I'm on mobile, but I think it's 1.5 pages.

For CAG.pdf

 

Actually I made another edit to the intro, 

 

I am writing in response to your letter. I would firstly like to sincerely apologise for the offence, but I’d like to assure you that I did not have any intention to evade my fare.

 

Does this sound okay?

 

I am now leaning back to your advice of accepting the offence.

 

Would a TFL employee reading this think I am accepting?

 

1 hour ago, dx100uk said:

just type no need to keep hitting quote...

 

read what the top line of their letter says carefully about what they are nquiring from you..

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean dx. This part? 

20200122_164343.jpg

 

Sorry for my numerous replies and requests. As you can see I am indecisive This is really stressing me out and I am probably overthinking. I have taken dx100's advice into account and shortened my letter as much as possible, but without using all the cuts he suggested.

 

The letter is about 1.5 pages long and in the intro I state "I would like to sincerely apologise for the incident", which I think remains neutral about liability for the offence. But I am still very, very unsure if I should do this rather than just flat out liability. As this is a repeat offence TFL regard it as of a "serious nature", as stated in their prosecution policy document. 

 

My big fear is admitting liability, then TFL refuses to settle, goes to court and its a slam dunk for them as its my 2nd offence. Perhaps it'll be the same outcome or worse if I deny the offence. This decision is really eating me. Regarding Bazza asking me if they will follow with 'strict liability law', I think in all cases of fare evasion they do so right? Anyway, I suppose my largest fear is that they will be relentless because of my previous offence.

 

I'd like to thank you all for your help, you people are great and have given me good advice.

 

I have attached another revised draft which is more trimmed, I think it is ready to send off except until the accept/neutral issue is more clear in my mind. I'm probably going to decide based on the consensus of what you guys suggest.

 

share with cag Last draft.pdf

 

Ah. I posted a long reply about how I want to gain a consenus generally on whether people think I should remain neutral or accept liability at this point, as that is the one thing that is stressing me out. And to me dx wasn't being clear on his stance, so I'd like everyone else's i put

 

41 minutes ago, Stressedmess said:

Ah. I posted a long reply about how I want to gain a consenus generally on whether people think I should remain neutral or accept liability at this point, as that is the one thing that is stressing me out. And to me dx wasn't being clear on his stance, so I'd like everyone else's i put

I'll post my final draft again for anyone who wants to read

share with cag Last draft.pdf

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I'm not sure about the acceptance thing, it's more Bazza's territory than mine. I expect he'll be back later. :)

 

I'm still concerned that your letter talks a bit too much about your health problems if you're supplementing what the medical evidence says.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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there is already enough evidence in my advised remit of your letter

you don't need to go into detail at this stage.

 

and the letter is not charging you with anything at this stage

it's merely asking for your side of what happened and why.

 

pers i'd stick to my text for now.

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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you haven't been charged with anything yet......

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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just type no need to keep hitting quote...

 

read what the top line of their letter says carefully about what they are nquiring from you..

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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the only one making this stressful is yourself

 

that far to long and in depth

 

I suggest you follow what I posted in post 18

Here is a final draft that I'm sending off. Thoughts? Better than my first draft?

 

"Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to your letter dated the 16th of January 2020 where you requested a response within ten working days in regards to case number xxxxxx. I would firstly like to sincerely apologise for the incident that occurred on the 15th of January 2020, where I was made aware to be potentially committing an offence but I’d like to assure you that I did not have any intention to evade my fare.

I have pre-existing medical conditions which are relevant to the incident. I wouldn’t have at any point attempted to exit the bus at my destination without attempting to pay if I was aware that I had not already. I did offer to pay once I was made aware by the officer but was told this was not possible. Due to feeling very intimidated at the time I did not want to press the matter.

I suffer from chronic fatigue, severe depression, social anxiety and generalised anxiety.  Last year, I had to quit my job as a result of my poor health and am currently unemployed in receipt of Universal Credit.  My condition affects me to the point where I have difficulty getting out of bed, moreso completing basic tasks. I am in a constant state of physical and mental exhaustion. As a result I have poor concentration and memory problems- this affects me in every part of my life. I have walked into traffic many times because I was unable to concentrate on what I was doing.

In particular, going outside is an extreme struggle for me; I am constantly fatigued, disorientated and frequently in a state of panic (anxiety attacks). Despite this I am trying to venture outside more to aid my recovery and eventually rejoin the workforce. My social anxiety causes me to feel panicked and disoriented when I board buses, as I feel like people are staring at me.

At the time of the incident I was moving home which was extremely stressful and exacerbated my mental and physical health. I had just a few days to move and I pushed past my limits with completing this quickly. I had to transport my belongings one box at a time via bus. I immensely struggled with this as I was fatigued, sleep-deprived, stressed and felt anxious about people looking at me. I boarded carrying a heavy box with both arms and I thought I had successfully tapped in, without realising that I hadn’t. I apologise for this mistake, but I must stress that it was not intentional. In hindsight, I wish I had paid more attention to my surroundings.

The incident itself and prospect of conviction has had a disastrous effect on my mental health. A criminal record would hinder any future prospects when my health improves and I want to start looking for work.  It would prevent me from visiting or working in the U.S- which is a dream of mine, despite my current circumstances. Any ambitions of recovering my health would be shattered if I had to go through court proceedings, and even more so if I were convicted. I am doubtful that I’d mentally recover.

As can be seen from I have attached my Oyster and contactless card history as part of my evidence that I had paid for buses just the day before, and have paid for travel since.  

To prevent this mistake ever happening again I now purchase a weekly bus pass and always prepare my card in hand and board at the front of the bus, despite my anxiety. I am also applying for a Freedom Pass.

I have no previous convictions and am an honest person. I am aware that this is the second occurrence of a similar nature within six months, and I am incredibly sorry for this. I will make sure this never happens again with the steps mentioned above. My GP has provided a supporting statement to confirm my current medical conditions. I can also ask my housing officer to confirm the dates of my move if you require further supporting evidence.  

I plead for the chance to pay immediately for my unpaid journey costs and also reimburse TFL for any necessary administrative costs. I am sorry for any and all inconveniences caused by this matter. I have not at any point wanted to be someone who is contributing to TFL’s growing issue with fare evasion. I have great respect for all the staff that work on the network and aware it’s not any easy job. 

I have included evidence of the following: Fit notes, NHS Sleep study appointment, NHS Talking Therapy assessment summary, NHS iapt appointments, NHS Spine Advisory Group session appointment, Universal Credit health assessment appointment, and a supporting statement from my GP.

I have also included my travel history on both my oyster and contactless debit card.

I look forward to your response and hope this matter can be resolved amicably  by an Out Of Court Settlement without the need to go through the courts.

 

I please ask that all future correspondence is sent to be aware of  my new address noted at the top of this letter.

I am thankful for being given the opportunity to explain my circumstances.

Sincerely,

xxxx"

 

……………….

ditch the bits in blue

add the bits in red.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ah. I posted a long reply about how I want to gain a consenus generally on whether people think I should remain neutral or accept liability at this point, as that is the one thing that is stressing me out. And to me dx wasn't being clear on his stance, so I'd like everyone else's i put

 

37 minutes ago, Stressedmess said:

Ah. I posted a long reply about how I want to gain a consenus generally on whether people think I should remain neutral or accept liability at this point, as that is the one thing that is stressing me out. And to me dx wasn't being clear on his stance, so I'd like everyone else's i put

I'll post my final draft again for anyone who wants to read

share with cag Last draft.pdf 36.85 kB · 0 downloads

 

After dx said "just type no need to keep hitting quote...

read what the top line of their letter says carefully about what they are nquiring from you."

 

I posted two replies after that, were they deleted? I don't see them

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sorry I lost connection whilst trying to tidy things

they are above now.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

can you post it up as text here in a msg box not a pdf

then we can edit it

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

My apologies. 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to your letter. I would firstly like to sincerely apologise for the incident, but I’d like to assure you that I did not have any intention to evade my fare.

 

I have pre-existing medical conditions which are relevant to the incident. I wouldn’t have at any point attempted to exit the bus without paying.

I suffer from chronic fatigue, severe depression, social anxiety and generalised anxiety.  Last year, I had to quit my job as a result of my poor health and am currently unemployed in receipt of Universal Credit.  My condition affects me to the point where I have difficulty getting out of bed, moreso completing basic tasks. I am in a constant state of physical and mental exhaustion. As a result I have poor concentration and memory problems.

 

Going outside is an extreme struggle for me; I am constantly disorientated and in a state of panic (anxiety attacks). Despite this I am trying to venture outside more to aid my recovery and eventually rejoin the workforce. I struggle especially with boarding buses, as I feel like people are staring at me.

 

At the time of the incident I was moving home on short notice which was extremely stressful and exacerbated my mental and physical health. I had to transport my belongings one box at a time via bus. I immensely struggled with this as I was fatigued, stressed and felt anxious about people around me. I boarded carrying a heavy box with both arms and I thought I had tapped in, without realising that I hadn’t. I am sorry for this mistake, but I must stress that it was not intentional. In hindsight, I wish I had paid more attention to my surroundings.

 

The incident itself and prospect of conviction has had a disastrous effect on my mental health. A criminal record would hinder any future prospects when my health improves and I want to start looking for work.  It would prevent me from working in the U.S, which is a dream of mine- despite my current circumstances. Any ambitions of recovering my health would be shattered if I had to go through court proceedings, and even more so if I were convicted. I am doubtful that I’d mentally recover.

 

As can be seen from my history, I had paid for buses just the day before, and have paid for travel since.  To prevent this mistake ever happening again I now purchase a weekly bus pass. I always prepare my card in hand and board at the front of the bus, despite anxiety. I am also applying for a Freedom Pass.

 

I have no previous convictions and am an honest person. I am aware that this is the second occurrence of a similar nature within six months, and I am incredibly sorry for this. I will make sure this never happens again, with the steps mentioned above.

 

I plead for the chance to pay immediately for my unpaid journey costs and also reimburse TFL for any necessary administrative costs. I am sorry for any and all inconveniences caused by this matter. I have not at any point wanted to be someone who is contributing to TFL’s growing issue with fare evasion. I have great respect for all the staff that work on the network and I am aware that it is not an easy job. 

 

I have included a supporting statement from my GP, as well as additional evidence.

 

I look forward to your response and hope this matter can be resolved amicably by an out of court settlement. Please be aware of my new address noted at the top of this letter. 

 

I am thankful for being given the opportunity to explain my circumstances. 

Sincerely,

Xx

Edited by Stressedmess
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pers I would not go into details about your condition - that is not for you to do.

should they wish to know more they can ask your GP or yourself.

 

take this the rightway please..

it is not an excuse for your actions, and if I were to be frank, people with these conditions, far too often portray their condition to the outside world 'as seeming to use it as an excuse'. that is what your letter is doing.

 

your case is not one of continued and persistent misuse of the scheme

it is merely a second incident of a mistake you and many people make.

one should not put up any reason for simply being human and making the occasional mistake.

 

they are not after prosecuting people that 'make mistakes', they are after serial, persistent, deliberate and fraudulent offenders.

 

thus why you need to make the focus of your letter just that - hey I made another mistake, sorry, not I suffer from this xyz which makes me makes mistakes. whatever you suffer from it is not an excuse you should ever use in your life for merely being a human.

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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