Grammer Schools / Streaming

[tobyjugg2]

With labour leader hopefuls all generally anti-streaming/grammar schools, I was wondering what your views on this are and why?

 

I went to a grammer school, as did a number of my 'working class' mates in the 60's and 70's and am unequivocally pro grammar schools/streaming.

 

Now I'm not saying the implementation was 100% right, but for a number of reasons I think that (flexible) streaming based on ability is exactly what is needed.

 

Different abilities in different areas simply need different approaches to enable a person to achieve the best they are able ...

Edited January 16, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[hightail]

I too had the benefit of a grammar school education and I think they were a great force for social mobility for those with academic ability.  There's nothing wrong with them, where it all went wrong is what happened to everyone else.  The 'modern' schools became seen as second best, somewhere for failures because the 11+ was viewed as a pass/fail exam.  It was never meant to be like that, shouldn't have been.  Identifying ability (all types of ability) and nurturing it should surely be what education is about.  Maybe if we called it something other than 'streaming' people wouldn't get so hot under the collar about it.

[firstship]

likewise I had the benefit of a Grammar School education, fortunately I lived and still live in an area with 6 Grammar Schools in Kent,(now 7) over the last few decades because of Government interference with league tables, these Grammar Schools spread their catchment area into Sussex and Surrey to ensure they creamed/streamed of the very best 11+ results to ensure their League Table results kept the Grammar Schools in the top strata and for sure it has worked to the detriment of local students in the local catchment area.

FS

[tobyjugg2]

43 minutes ago, firstship said:

likewise I had the benefit of a Grammar School education, fortunately I lived and still live in an area with 6 Grammar Schools in Kent,(now 7) over the last few decades because of Government interference with league tables, these Grammar Schools spread their catchment area into Sussex and Surrey to ensure they creamed/streamed of the very best 11+ results to ensure their League Table results kept the Grammar Schools in the top strata

 

and for sure it has worked to the detriment of local students in the local catchment area.

 

 

In what way?

 

(Given there were 6 in the county)

Edited January 16, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[buckthorn]

I think TJ that this is a very interesting subject I just hope

you are going to be less aggressive towards anybody contributing

to it who may not have the same opinion as yourself.

[tobyjugg2]

16 minutes ago, buckthorn said:

I think TJ that this is a very interesting subject I just hope

you are going to be less aggressive towards anybody contributing

to it who may not have the same opinion as yourself.

 

 

You might find out if you simply contribute in a sensible and constructive way 

... or your thoughts might seem to be confirmed if you contribute otherwise

 

I understand that there are different views .. some might even be constructive and sensible

I also accept your right to express a view, and I will give it thought despite NOT suffering fools and ideologically driven horsecrap well at all

and hope you will do the same

 

 

 

 

I have regularly heard over the decades, centuries and millennia ....

 

Its elitist

but of course those that experienced it found it gave them chances they would have found much harder or almost impossible without that educational boost

 

Its elitist and for the rich who pay for tutors

Often by parents who didn't take the time to invest effort in their children, helping them to read from an early age and taking them to libraries, with very very few (in my experience) who had private tutors, and those few commonly (but not exclusively) paid for by parents giving up things to give their children chances they didn't have if they were unable to give that help themselves

.. many of the kids made their own help in each other. I stayed after school with a few like minded regularly to do homework.

 

its elitist for the rich

by people who didn't realise that a large proportion of the kids that went to grammar schools were working class

 

its elitist

by people who didn't realise it gave working class kids similar educational opportunities to rich kids. Thats not elitist - its a great leveller.

 

 

.. so what is your opinion?

and why?

 

.. what did you experience?

and what is your interpretation of that.

 

 

 

 

 

[tobyjugg2]

oh and another I have heard mostly in the current century and millennium is that its wrong to test kids - to enable grouping into 'streams' of those of similar ability/bent

 

... Perhaps anyone who thinks that should tell to that the the person who is going to build the bridge your car is going to drive over, or the surgeon who's going to perform heart surgery on someone you love

 

No worries about any exams, abilities or aptitude  mate, its what you wanted to do thats good enough for me ...

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

Well, interesting to see an entire lack of disagreement, credible, reasoned or otherwise

 

Yayyy

Start opening grammar schools ... and get testing those kids

 

o.O

[labrat]

... 

 

I think the sheer lack of replies might be down to how aggressively you have gone on about other people's opinions 

 

I personally have no issues with grammar schools - didn't attend one mind you

[tobyjugg2]

35 minutes ago, labrat said:

... 

 

I think the sheer lack of replies might be down to how aggressively you have gone on about other people's opinions 

 

I personally have no issues with grammar schools - didn't attend one mind you

 

 

perhaps my lack of tolerance of questionable opinion without supported reason does show through

 

but i consider - are you sure you have experience of that it seem rather unlikely,

is only a matter of semantics and lack of clarity

 

If it gives pause to 'questionably sourced opinion' 'let alone worse' ... is that a bad thing?

 

People are entitled to their opinion, but if they promote a stupid one, then surely its a duty to call it out.

Especially when that opinion flies in the face of facts.

 

We can all be wrong, but I for one don't change my mind on facts based on someones  unsupported personal opinion.

 

 

 

I have a quite non standard opinion on quantum theory and the state and origin of the 'universe', and if ever discussing it I accept that many will trounce it - despite their being unable to explain the inconsistencies that I have issues with in more than one of the 'standard' QTs

... and I've never heard such complete and utter crap in my life as 'the many worlds' theory.

:=)

 

... despite my 'opinion' on reality actually being able to explain the many worlds theory better ... IMO

 

LOL LOL LOL

Edited February 12, 2020 by tobyjugg2

[tobyjugg2]

For example, I hold no faith in imaginary numbers, which are at least 50% (LOL) of the excuse for the claim time travel is possible.

 

When confronted with the fact that satellites work ... I am likely to say

and galaxies don't fly apart without dark this that and the other fudges, aka magic ..

and ask if they are aware of the history of aspirin, and that it was originally believed it needed a widdershins spin and a low level of photon bombardment?

 

8-)

 

 

But of course, you can't argue that the math does seem to work in real world (LOL) situations

 

and before someone utters the gravity is a myth  response

Gravity isn't a myth, but it does seem clear to me the encompassing mutiverse sucks bigtime

(and it seems quite possible that gravity effects/waves maybe travel faster than light)

 

:-)