Car park penalty Thurrock council

[joyjoyjoy]

Any useful advice to the following is appreciated.

 

This time I got a ticket on my windscreen at the pay and display car park I use every morning for work - on 3/12/2019. 

Once again I had no clue what this was for as I never, ever knowingly contravene! 

 

it was for parking outside a marked bay. 

There is no reason for me to do this as the time I arrive every morning there are always about 20 empty spaces and that day was no exception. 

 

Long story short

I checked the next day where I had parked and it was an end space. 

Although the line on one side is quite faint it is definitely noticeable. 

I took a picture of it. 

 

Meanwhile I sent an email the same night as the ticket, saying that I was inside the line. 

My first thought was that they were saying I parked on top of a line instead of inside. 

As I said in my email, I always check I am inside (as I don't take chances).

 

I didn't hear anything back until I got a letter today saying I had made no representation and owe £50. 

There is still a chance to appeal. 

 

As it stands I see it as my word against theirs as there is no photographic evidence provided. 

If there is any I am confident that I am right. 

I am going to appeal, attaching my email sent, which seems to have been bypassed. 

 

Would there be any photographic evidence? 

Any suggestions on what I can do?

 

Thank you.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

I've assumed you mean a private car park so have moved you to the PPC forum at CAG.

 

HB

[joyjoyjoy]

Actually it's not private.  It is a council car park.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the reply. Who is the ticket from please? We can move your thread to the most appropriate forum once we know.

 

HB

[joyjoyjoy]

It's from Thurrock Council.  Thanks.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that. I'll move you to the Local Authority parking forum.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Thread moved and I've amended your title a bit.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

the CEO will have taken pictures so you need to demand to see them so you can decide whether to formally appeal or not.

 

I would also be having a pop at the council for failing to correctly safeguard yur data, namely the letter or email sent for the soft appeal.

I once had a similar tickt in Surrey and the end bay wasnt actually a bay but as the paintwork was so delapidated they determined that  the motorist wouldnt know that as the non bay was actually too small and generally used for putting bins in. Worth measuringa dn photographng in case they dont cancel.

 

Send a copy of your emal to them by post as well and tell them that you are going to appeal to the adjudicator on their failure to follow their own procedure as well as the incorrect issue of the ticket in the first place. They may well decide that discretion can be used after all

[joyjoyjoy]

On 17/01/2020 at 11:44, ericsbrother said:

the CEO will have taken pictures so you need to demand to see them so you can decide whether to formally appeal or not.

 

I would also be having a pop at the council for failing to correctly safeguard yur data, namely the letter or email sent for the soft appeal.

I once had a similar tickt in Surrey and the end bay wasnt actually a bay but as the paintwork was so delapidated they determined that  the motorist wouldnt know that as the non bay was actually too small and generally used for putting bins in. Worth measuringa dn photographng in case they dont cancel.

 

Send a copy of your emal to them by post as well and tell them that you are going to appeal to the adjudicator on their failure to follow their own procedure as well as the incorrect issue of the ticket in the first place. They may well decide that discretion can be used after all

 

Some interesting points.  I am going to appeal definitely about them failing to follow their own procedure.  Thank you for this.

Edited January 18, 2020 by joyjoyjoy

[Bromptonaut]

I'd suggest appealing it based on the poor markings. 

 

I got a parking ticket in Camden in Autumn 2018. Residents Bay which was not sufficiently differentiated from adjoining Pay and Display bays. Got my photographs together and a clear statement of my arguments. Stick tio the facts however bone headed the Council appear to be. The Adjudicators have a library of significant cases on their website, see if there are cases similar to use. If there are it will help you see how thw adjudicators approach the issue of parking outwith bays that are ill-marked. These cases are not a binding precedent but can be persuasive. I was lucky in that there was one at exactly the same location and pretty much identical facts 20 years previously. 

[joyjoyjoy]

On 01/02/2020 at 14:37, Bromptonaut said:

I'd suggest appealing it based on the poor markings. 

 

I got a parking ticket in Camden in Autumn 2018. Residents Bay which was not sufficiently differentiated from adjoining Pay and Display bays. Got my photographs together and a clear statement of my arguments. Stick tio the facts however bone headed the Council appear to be. The Adjudicators have a library of significant cases on their website, see if there are cases similar to use. If there are it will help you see how thw adjudicators approach the issue of parking outwith bays that are ill-marked. These cases are not a binding precedent but can be persuasive. I was lucky in that there was one at exactly the same location and pretty much identical facts 20 years previously. 

Thank you.  Of course my appeal has just been rejected.  They also said they haven't received my email.  I had sent a hard copy as proof so they're saying although they never got it they're willing to go back to the original £25 charge.  Hopefully I can get some justice with this.

[Bromptonaut]

If you're confident you are correct take it to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. The worst that can happen is you lose and have to pat £50. The success rate for those who attend the hearing with a well prepared case is pretty high. 

 

It was a bit of a busman's holiday for me as I previously worked in an Quango that had some oversight of Tribunals including those concerned with parking. 

[joyjoyjoy]

Well I'm wondering now, as the photos show there are only 3 lines so the one that would be in front of the car is missing.  Unfortunately I didn't notice. The infuriating thing is there were plenty more spaces so I wasn't parking there because the car park was full.  I believe it was a space once upon a time and it is obviously not blocking anyone else.  Do you think I sill have any chance?

[ericsbrother]

your argument will be about confusion as to what a marked bay is is there is no indication that whwere you parked wasnt a bay. Dont think about the line at the front of the bay means nothing as far as the markings go unless they are trying to rely on bay sizes that apply to on street parking

[joyjoyjoy]

Oh no - I already gave in and paid! However I had to warn someone else the other day who also parked in the same space.  I'm wondering if the council has it there especially to catch people out.

[ericsbrother]

no but they wont change the markings just to stop themselves earning a dishonest buck