Taylor Wimpey and Electrical Issue

[Giddy Kipper]

Hi everyone

 

I'm hoping for some advice as to whether we have a case to take somewhere or if we should just accept what's been offered to us.  

 

We have lived in a new build for over 2 years now so our 2yr window is closed. 

 

Mid December, our smoke alarm upstairs was going mental in the middle of the night so we got up, removed it and took out the battery, assuming it must be that. 

 

Fast forward a week and our upstairs lights kept tripping. 

We isolated it to the bathroom and kept those lights off until we could resolve the problem. 

 

An electrician friend came round and went to investigate. 

He discovered we had a burnt out junction caused by a loose terminal connection. 

we had had a mini fire in the loft! 

 

He isolated the issue because it was just before Christmas and left us with one working spotlight and no alarm upstairs. 

We rang Taylor Wimpey on the 23rd December and they agreed to deal with it even though it was outside of the 2 years. 

 

The electricians concerned came out today, 13th January  (we've been without the upstairs alarm since then) and the guy actually looked quite shooked up by the damage to the lights.  He said he's never seen it happen before. 

 

 I'm not technical but a loose terminal connection, caused a power surge to the other junction boxes in the loop to burn out and melt. 

It got so hot it melted the junction boxes and sooted one of the loft boards. 

Thankfully, the fuse box did it's job and he admitted when they do their checks, they don't check this.  

 

They have agreed to come out in 2 weeks to replace the lights etc. and we've said they have to check all the other spotlights in the house too because we have concerns about the safety. 

 

In a nutshell, what I'm asking is, do we have a claim against Taylor Wimpey and/or the electricians? 

We have 2 children and animals and there but fore the grace of God, something seriously disastrous could have happened.

 

Equally, are we within out rights to ask for a completely different electrical company to carry out the work? 

I don't have much faith in the guys that Taylor Wimpey chose in the first place.

 

All advise is always appreciated.

 

Many thanks 

 

P.S. I've attached a picture of the junction box.

[BankFodder]

I suppose by two years, you are referring to some kind of guarantee given by the builder. Is this correct?

I'm struggling to understand why this shouldn't be subject to the usual consumer rules for the quality of services provided under contract as per Consumer Rights Act. Are there some special property rules which mean that consumer contract rules don't apply?

Also, as only an electrical safety certificate was issued. Who issued it? Do you have access to an independent electrician who can check out the system and who is qualified to issue a safety certificate? Would they be prepared to give a written opinion as to the safety of the system and as to the validity of the certificate?

[Giddy Kipper]

Yes, there is a 2 year clause whereby they fix any build issues. Post this, it has to be referred to NHBC. 

 

I suppose that is my question, based on the fact they've played ball and are happy to rectify, do I just zip it? Or do I have a valid negligence claim out electrician said it was because the original work was not done to the correct standard. I'm sure I wouldn't have an issue getting a statement to this effect.

[BankFodder]

I can't imagine that claims for negligence would be excluded so my view is that yes you do have a claim for negligence. I wonder whether you might even have a claim in contract.

However, if you start going the litigation route at the moment then you are likely to delay things so I would suggest that you get the whole thing rectified, get a proper electrical safety certificate and then start examining any damage and any losses and start making a claim after the problem has been sorted out.

I would make sure that before they go into rectify things that you get a proper independent report and also take lots of photographs. Then get TW to sort out the problem. You might then want to get an independent electrician to confirm that it has been properly sorted and that the electrical safety certificate has been properly issued. Then examine your losses and come back here

 

[CraigMcK]

Hi. Not commenting of guarantees etc, but I can assure you a loose connection in one box could not possible cause the others to fail. 

It’s far more likely the other connections were also loose, failing that a very high current was in the circuit for a long time. 
 

out of interest did you change low energy lights for high watt traditional types, or fit extra spotlights into the circuit?

 

Are you able to read the maker/ ratings on the failed junction?

[AndyOrch]

Is that not a transformer for down lights ?   

 

Andy

[Giddy Kipper]

No the only thing we've changed are the LED spotlights as they've gone.  This has happened consistently throughout the whole of the house, but the bathroom in particular.  I was disgruntled by this at the time because I thought they lasted a good period of time.  I just sucked it up, however, and didn't question anything could be amiss.  

13 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Is that not a transformer for down lights ?   

 

Andy

No clue Andy, I could have the name wrong!

[Giddy Kipper]

52 minutes ago, CraigMcK said:

 

 

Are you able to read the maker/ ratings on the failed junction?

 

Sorry just seen this bit...……...HAGER J501 16A 250V

 

Does that mean anything to you?

[AndyOrch]

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ501.html?source=adwords&ad_position=&ad_id=315107931576&placement=&kw=&network=u&matchtype=&ad_type=&product_id=ASJ501&product_partition_id=297072075353&campaign=shopping&version=finalurl_v3&gclid=CjwKCAiAx_DwBRAfEiwA3vwZYvp3Qo9XcYH2Fnhpf4sEH6QgKV8RI4hk3I9gyYvx1mLHtgkoBCGLoBoC8J0QAvD_BwE

[CraigMcK]

Hagar produce good quality products, it might be worth a bit of time emailing them images if there is more than one like this as it could be a faulty batch or they may offer some support as to the issues, other houses around you may have the same issues with potential fires. 
 

www.hager.co.uk

[ericsbrother]

agree that loose wire will cause massive load on circuit a it is behving like an arc welder. Now how that affects the others will depend on how they are connected together.

Terminals that are not dead tight will work loose by the cyclic resonance of the ac anyway so worth checking evry socket,  switch etc in the house

[CraigMcK]

Eric. Loose connection will cause massive heating, but will not change the overall load as that is based on the resistance of the circuit and if anything that would go up due to the loose connection(s), so current would drop. 

[Giddy Kipper]

So an update on this...…...

 

I have obtained an independent electrical report that states the issues.  The electrician from the original company came back and took out the transformers/junction boxes and re-wired the bathroom.  He left here without providing us with any paperwork whatsoever.  I've rung their offices and they are telling me that they don't have to and are not going to issue me with any paperwork whatsoever to show the work has been done.  Surely this can't be right?  In my head, I think they're trying to hide the issue so we have nothing to claim with?  Can someone advise if they're pulling a fast one?  And do we have something now to start proceedings?

 

Thanks 

[BankFodder]

Sorry, I don't know enough about the subject to be able to tell you anything about the obligations of electricians.

[AndyOrch]

Electrical certificate or a EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) ?

[Giddy Kipper]

6 minutes ago, Andyorch said:

Electrical certificate or a EICR (Electrical Installation Condition Report) ?

 

Are you saying this is what we should have received?

[AndyOrch]

Thats what you may receive...only the person that instructed the electrician would receive the EC

[Giddy Kipper]

Are we not entitled to have something that verifies work has been carried out on our property?  Surely if and when we sell the house we are obliged to inform the new purchaser of any work that's been undertaken on our behalf, along with appropriate certificates?

 

I also assume by this you mean that there is a certificate but they would send it to the builders? 

[stu007]

Hi

 

I can understand your concern especially after what has happened.

 

Did you get a survey done before you moved into the property even though it was a New Build?

 

In any of the documentation you received for the property from Taylor Wimpey is there anything mentioning the electrical installation to the property?

 

I would also advise having a wee chat with your councils building control to see if the builder of the new builds was required to notify them of any electrical work and if certificates were required.

 

some links for you:

 

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician/building-regulations/england/

 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200135/approved_documents/82/part_p_-_electrical_safety

 

http://www.niceic.com/find-a-contractor/factsheets

 

http://www.niceic.com/find-a-contractor/electrics-explained

 

https://www.niceic.com/find-a-contractor/certificate-check

 

 

[BazzaS]

Not disagreeing with stu’s helpful links, but who gets a survey done (and done to the depth required to have identified the wiring fault described) for moving into a new build?

 

I doubt I would.

[Giddy Kipper]

Well the NHBC certificate surely replaces such a need?  They would, however, rely on the electrical safety certificate that is issued by the qualified electrician.  We do have the original but the issue I have is that the original work was shoddy and led to the said issue.  

 

My issue now is a) are they wrong in not issuing us with something to say that they have carried out remedial work  and b) do I have a claim for negligence and how do I go about this?