Drunk Wife opened Ladbrookes online betting account and used my Natwest Card to spend £13k!!

[Mart1980]

They haven't actually said that its closed just that they can not match my bank card details to any account which is bull...the technology they have would easily trace a transaction surely.?

To also let a card go through with somebody else's details 27 times should be impossible? 

[hello12345]

I've just tried to open and account with them just to see what's required. this was sent to my email inbox...…………...

As a regulated and licenced business, we have an obligation to confirm the identity of our customers in order to follow the most recent requirements from the UK Gambling Commission.   Please be aware you will not be able to deposit or play until you are fully verified. In order to do this, we still need to verify your identity.  Please send us a picture of your Driving Licence. Verify now using ONE of the following methods:   a) Uploading your document to http://promotion.ladbrokes.com/verify/ b) Email your document to [email protected] If you don't have a Driving Licence, please send a picture of one of the following ID documents:   • Your valid passport (photo page only) • Your valid ID card (front and back) If you need any further assistance, our verification team is always happy to help! Simply send an Email to [email protected] We appreciate your understanding and cooperation on this. Kind Regards, Ladbrokes Operations Team   Ladbrokes Operations Team   This is a customer service message sent to Ladbrokes.com account holders. If you have chosen not to receive marketing emails from Ladbrokes.com receipt of this email does not alter that decision.   This email communication makes use of a 'Clear Image' (gif) to track results of the email campaign. If you wish to turn off this tracking for future emails, you can do so by turning off the images in the email itself. Ladbrokes is operated by LC International Limited (Suite 6, Atlantic Suites, Gibraltar) and licensed (ref 54743) and regulated by the British Gambling Commission for persons gambling in Great Britain. For persons gambling outside Great Britain, Ladbrokes is licensed (ref 010, 012) by the Government of Gibraltar and regulated by the Gibraltar Gambling Commissioner. This email and any attachments are confidential, and may be legally privileged and protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient dissemination or copying of this email is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender by replying by email and then delete the email completely from your system. Any views or opinions are solely those of the sender. This communication is not intended to form a binding contract unless expressly indicated to the contrary and properly authorised. Any actions taken on the basis of this email are at the recipient's own risk. Copyright © 2020 Ladbrokes

 

[dx100uk]

thats telling.

so they must be lying...

 

[Mart1980]

Absolutely none of that happened

she opened an account by simply entering her married name (all ID is in her maiden name)

Address,date of birth and email and phone number

then added my bank card details and away she went.

 

No checks at all were made and the name didnt match the bank card (we do not have a joint bank)

 

They said they done electronic checks and it matched that is also impossible because she is not on the electrol roll and her bank and driver's licence is also in her maiden name.

 

Yet they are acting like it never happened

It has been two weeks

[unclebulgaria67]

Have you ever had a Labrokes account in your name ?

 

Was this actually a Labrokes account or was it another website owned by Labrokes that was purely for slot machine type games ?

 

 

[Mart1980]

No this was ladbrokes and yes many many many years ago

[Mart1980]

I see this wasn't the first time something like this had happened.!!

This if off the gambling commission website they obviously have made no improvements at all since.

What's 5.9 million fine to a company that turns over billions!!

[Manxman in exile]

Can you not get your wife to make a SAR (as suggested by London1971 on pages 1 and 5 of this thread)?

 

Surely the fact that she can't remember her username and password is irrelevant?  She simply makes a SAR of Ladbrokes asking for details of the transactions she made on such and such a date.  They must(?) hold that information against her name, surely.  They can't say they have no record of the transactions*.

 

I think you're going to have to go to the Gambling Commission and if you get no satisfaction from them, sue Ladbrokes.  I would still be concerned, however, that either or both of them may initiate some sort of fraud investigation - on the face of it it does look a bit suspicious even if you can establish that your wife lacked the dishonest intent to commit fraud.

 

I would still want to get legal advice.  Some firms of solicitors will offer 30 minutes of free legal advice which might help you steer in the right direction.  If you live in a university town some Law Departments might offer a similar service.  (But remember, free legal advice may not be as reliable as if you pay for it.

 

* I hate to say this again, but if your wife did not have to go through the ID process outlined by hello12345 in #127, and if Ladbrokes say they can't trace the account, are you absolutely sure it's gone to Ladbrokes?  Could it have gone somewhere else?  Are you directing your questions to the correct part of the Ladbrokes business?

[hello12345]

I don't want to sound rude or condescending but can I ask a few questions, the establishments or the police might ask similar questions.

 

Was your wife angry with you that night?

 

Could of it been done deliberately to get back at you?

 

What's the reason your wife can't get access to her emails anymore?

 

could she had used your ID instead of her own to register a account?

 

if it was a [problem] website then you should be able to get your money back from the bank.

[Manxman in exile]

I think those are questions worth asking (and that might be asked!). 

I was also going to ask if there's any reason why the wife isn't on the electoral role (#129).

 

I've also tried hinting that the wife could (just possibly!) have transferred the money elsewhere.

 

It's a strange situation.

 

I don't think the bank will be sympathetic - on the face of it the OP authorised the transactions. 

(His wife had his card, she had his 'phone and it appears she must have replied to the message sent by the bank querying the transactions - as I understand it).

[Manxman in exile]

Citizens Advice Bureau may be able to advise of any local solicitors who offer free 30 mins legal advice.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Manxman in exile

[Mart1980]

Hello,

Too all your questions no no and she can get in the email and got the user name.

It's not in my name and I'd was given for her either 

 

I have sent numerous emails since yesterday with all the info and I am still waiting for any kid of reply at all

[dx100uk]

well goto your online email at the ISP's site

and find the mails

they will NOT be deleted there

but my maybe in the deleted items folder.

 

if this was all done by a mobile phone

then IMAP doesn't delete them on the ISP server.

 

dx

 

 

[Manxman in exile]

Mart1980 - is there any reason you didn't have your 'phone with you while you were watching football (I presume down the pub)?

 

I have a 'phone but it's hardly ever with me, if it is I never answer it, and I don't surf the net on it.  I've noticed, however, that most other people display symptoms of panic and anxiety if separated from their 'phone for more than about 60 seconds.  Why did your wife have it and not you?

[Mart1980]

It's a very simple answer

It,s a tradition me and a few of my long term mates go the pub to watch the football all day on boxing day and on new years day and our number one rule is we don't take our phones.!

 

We don't see each other as we used to with us all leading different lives and having families but that is the one thing we have all promised too do until the day we die.!

 

So it was quite normal for me not to have my phone and no need to worry about it because xmas and new year is the inky time of the year that I get a complete break from work zero emails zero phone calls.Its the only time in a whole year I completely have a break.

[Manxman in exile]

Thanks!  I understand now why you wouldn't want any 'phone interruptions!

[Mart1980]

Hi all here is the latest final response from ladbrokes on this matter.

 

After weeks of me emailing I then added the complaint to resolver and once I done this they all of a sudden said they can not communicate too my email address and it must be my wife with her email address.Even though I had 23 emails before this from my email.

 

I have attached the long email reply my points are on there and then there reply to it.

 

I need to stress my wife never once used her maiden name on the account and even the email she set up the account with was her married name but now ladbrokes are saying otherwise with no evidence just there say.

 

I find that one point in particular they have said my bank card was added but my wifes full name put in as the card holder her maiden name I may add.!!!.

 

Anyone have any ideas on there reply.

………………………..

 

Dear emma

 

We are writing further to you, in relation to your complaint about Responsible Gambling.

 

Firstly, we would like to apologise for any dissatisfaction you may have faced with our service and thank you for your patience while we performed our investigation.

 

As a licenced and Regulated Responsible Gambling Organisation we take our responsibilities very seriously.

As required by the Regulators, we have sophisticated monitoring systems in place which continuously check for Key Indicator Threshold alerts. These are fields in a customer’s account that would flag up areas of concern and would require intervention by our Responsible Gambling Team.

 

As part of GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) which I am sure you are aware of, we are bound by this Regulation to deal with the registered account holder or a third party that has been explicitly approved and verified to act on behalf of the registered account holder. Here we received the approval for Mr M  to act on your behalf on the 7th February 2020, all prior communications where solely made by Mr M  who at that time was not authorised to act on the account.

 

You opened your Ladbrokes account username “Emma1712” on the 1st January 2020 at 13h45 and last accessed it on the 1st January 2020 at 23h01, the total account active time was 9hours and 48 minutes and closed on the 2nd January 2020.

 

The account closure was applied as a result of the monitoring system receiving alerts from the Key Indicator thresholds being reached on your account. Your Total Deposits were £14,215.00 from 35 separate entries and there were no withdrawals.

 

We have referred to the points from your email and listed our response accordingly.  

 

Point 1 & 2.

1.account set up with zero id (I know this because the account was opened in her married name and all her id apart from her marriage certificate is in her maiden name)

2.zero electronic verification were made.(I know this because again nothing is in her married name at this address and she is not on the electrol roll at my address)

 

Documentary verification is required if a customer fails the multi layered background system checks, we would then request specific documents to verify you prior to opening the account. In your case we did not require any documents as the system background checks were sufficient. As a point of information, this account was opened in your maiden name and not your married name as your email suggested.

 

Point 3, 4, 5 & 7.

3.A third party bank card was allowed to pass through ladbroles security systems not just once but 27 times the account was in a womans name but a mans bank card used to deposit funds.

4.There was obvously suspicious activity on the account opened by my wife. opening a account on the 1st Jan with no id or checks and another persons bank card used 27 times within a few hours.

5.ladbrokes failed to kyc.

 

7.A brand new account was able to use a third party bank card that is not even remotely linked too the ladbrokes account holder and a large sum of money 27 deposits were made totalling £13170.

 

When an account is opened online, the customer is responsible for completing all the required fields accurately.  

When depositing for the first time, you as the customer are required to complete all fields correctly, this includes the correct name on the bank card used to deposit funds into your Ladbrokes online account.

 

We do not have the authority to access the various Bank databases, which means we are unable to verify that the name on the bankcard input on the Ladbrokes account matches the name on the Bank card used.

 

In this case the name of “Emma g” was used for the card holder details and not the name of the actual card holder.  

 

We have listed the relevant points from our Terms and Conditions pertaining to account opening.

 

7. Opening and Maintaining your Account

7.1 Customers may open only one account. Should we identify any customer with more than one account we reserve the right to close such accounts.

7.2 You must ensure that the details provided when opening an account (including but not limited to your address (meaning your usual place of residence), telephone number and email address) are accurate and kept up to date. You can access and amend your own individual account information on the Website (including via your mobile or tablet device), the Ladbrokes mobile and/or tablet application, the Telephone Service or in our shops.

 

Point 6.

6.emma  has serious mental health problems and is a vulnerable person but ladbrokes would not know that because ladbrokes made zero checks at all.

 

We as a Responsible Gambling organisation, are not to know if a person opening an online account has any mental or other vulnerabilities issues which could lead to financial harm.

 

We hold the view that you have made an informed decision while opening an account, and until such time as we have been made aware of any issues we act accordingly in good faith.  

 

We have provided a list of charities at the bottom of this email which may be of some help with your current situation going forward.  

 

In our investigation, we have reviewed all the emails (25) in which the communication has been made with Ladbrokes, which was all done by a third party

 

mr m was advised on several occasions that as he did not hold an account with Ladbrokes and his card had been used to deposit funds,

he should contact the Police and his bank to set up a fraud investigation, we would then await the Bank’s request for information pertaining to the fraud.

 

Point 8.

8.Ladbrokes own staff at a very early stage have clearly stated that it would be impossible for somebody to open a account and add another bank card in a different persons name than the ladbrokes account holder.(I have evidence of this with multiple emails and live chats)

 

It is not possible to open an account in one name and have a third-party card holder name registered on the account, our system would reject the payment from the card as the details would no match those of the account holder.

 

In this case, the account was opened in the name of “Emma G, when completing the required fields for the first deposit the name of “Emma G was input for the name on the bankcard. This is contrary to the agreed Terms and Conditions when signing up to the account.

Point 9.

 

9.Ladbrokes also stated that if by any chance at all that a payment method ither than the account holder passed there checks that no winnings would be paid out as per your terms and conditions and all deposits refunded.

 

In this case we have found no grounds to justify the return of any deposits made, as the name on the card used, namely Mr M  was not input at deposit time but the name of the registered account holder “Emma Glover”.

 

Point 10.

10.Ladbrokes have not resolved this matter in a timely manner or returned the deposits as is standard practice.

In relation to the length of time that our complaints process allows, this can be found on our Terms and Conditions.

 

We are the Final stage in the Internal Complaint Process, once we have received a complaint, we have between 24 to 72 hours to respond.

 

This response takes the form of a 28-day Hold notice whereby we confirm receipt of your complaint and assign a Case Manager to deal with your complaint.  The Gambling Commission provides operators with up to 8 weeks to provide a response.

 

Point 11.

11.emma  and mark  have requested a GDPR request to see what information you had to allow the opening of the account and also how a bank card in another persons name was allowed to be passed as verified.

 

We have passed on your request to the respective team in relation to your DSAR (Data Service Access Request) who will send this information to you on due course.

 

All emails and other communications have been reviewed since the 10th January 2020.

There was a total of 25 emails and no other forms of communication.

 

At no time prior to the 7th February 2020 were Ladbrokes dealing with yourself the registered account holder or an authorised third-party.

We are not allowed to divulge any information to any person who is not the registered account holder or an authorised Third-party.

 

In this case it was Mr m who was asking for information without the approved authority.

He was advised that as this was fraud, someone using his bank card to make deposits on a Ladbrokes account which he did not have, he should report this to the Police and his Bank for them to take the appropriate action.

 

Point 12.

12. Ladbrokes has so far refused to return all the deposits made.

 

We have now concluded our investigation and have found that once the Key Indicator Threshold alerts were received the Responsible Gambling Team intervened by suspending the account.  

 

There was no way for Ladbrokes to be aware of your mental state at the time of account opening, we do wish you well in this matter and hope that your situation improves.

 

As the account was opened using the incorrect card details which is a contravention of the Terms and Conditions, we will not be returning any deposits made while the account was open.

 

Please be advised that this email represents the final stage of our internal complaints process as we have now reached a deadlock with your complaint.

 

Therefore, should you remain dissatisfied with the outcome of your dispute, please be advised that you do have the option of referring your dispute to an approved Alternative Dispute Resolution provider (ADR) such as the Independent Betting Adjudication Service.

 

You may also use the Online Dispute Resolution (ODR) platform to refer your dispute to IBAS, however, if you choose to use the ODR platform you would not be referring your dispute directly to IBAS and this may then prolong the process of resolving your dispute. Please use case reference CC-6261 when escalating your dispute through the ADR authority.  

 

Please visit section 31 of our Terms and Conditions for more information on this point.

 

Kind Regards,    

Simon – Case Manager

Ladbrokes Escalations Team  

 

Gamcare http://www.gamcare.org.uk/

[Mart1980]

I had to get my wife to send this from the email set up with is in her married name after ladbrokes all of a sudden said they would not speak with me on resolver unless it was in the account holders email that set up the account and to start fresh away from resolver.

 

Then this was there final reply

[dx100uk]

l'll do it.

 

 

[Mart1980]

Dx100uk you will do what.?

[dx100uk]

tidy the thread and get rid of you pers info...now done.

 

dx

 

 

 

[Mart1980]

Thank you very much.

 

 

 

[Mart1980]

The reasons and justification seem ludicrous from a company that size.

 

They keep pushing for me too get me to report it as fraud to the police and the bank basically ignoring all the facts.

 

I must stress the account was never set up in her maiden name it was the same name as the email set up which is her married name.

They asked me to send her photo id and the marriage cert to prove it and then when I did they are now saying that it was set up with her maiden name.They never had any id from her at all until that point.

I am astonished that they have said the payment method she put in her maiden name and my bank card numbers and exp ect and it was verified to be used 33 times.yet they have stated they have sophisticated systems in place that track this.

They also never suspended the account she was allowed to keep depositing until the account was empty.It was only when I found out and called up some 10 days after when I spotted it that they suspended the account.

 

I do not know were else to take it.

I have tried to post on there twitter account but they have blocked me and censored this major issues.

They have sent no evidence to there answers I might add just a email.

[finaldj]

If the gambling site want you to go down the fraud route then you have no choice because that it was it is.

 

On the other hand you both could have set this up and when you didn't win anything tried to claim the money back and act all innocent like it was a mistake and you'll both get done for fraud.

[ericsbrother]

depending on what payment system they use they may well get a green light with the card details and address match, no need to enter DOB or other ID once address match OK.

 

that doesn't excuse them for denying a problem exists with both their system and their approach to handling this complaint.

i have to agree that you will have to make a complaint of the misuse of your card to the police if you want to get anywhere regardless of how painful this will be. the same goes when children misuse their parents accounts or card details.

 

whether anything goes further will be down to how Ladbrokes feel about losing the money but I do wonder if they wont want to make a big issue because after all, it isn't as though they have lost anything tangible unlike when a card is used to make a purchase in a shop for goods and also the damage to their reputation if they are seen to be demanding the courts punish those who are vulnerable for a moments' recklessness when they are already in the sights of the govt for forcing reform by legislation.

 

For this reason I suggest that you bite the bullet and make the call but only after you have Ladbrokes final word on the matter but also get in touch with your MP as well