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Centrica/CST claimform - Industrial Training Bond .


BadMojo
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Posted (edited)

I found my final payslip and amongst the final deductions was an amount of £3000. This sent my final payslip into negative, -£2797. I received no other correspondence from BG regarding the training bond, demands to pay it back and/or instructions on how to do so. I regarded the matter as closed and waited for them to contact me. They didn't, until....

 

A period of time passed and then I started to received DCA demands, posted here, and followed the advice to ignore.

 

I never regarded it as a debt, as I did not borrow any money, or sign a credit agreement, or anything along those lines. I regarded it as a penalty, which they would not pursue and time passed...

 

I 'm finding it difficult to imagine the estoppel approach would work, bearing in mind the DCAs started to write to me saying I owed them the money - which I ignored.

Edited by BadMojo
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no the dca wrote on behalf of their client, whom is the claimant not the dca wanting money.

 

going by a few threads here and what i researched when these were 'popular', i believe all what you state above being the case..but within your contract you will find the details of the bond, and its terms. if i remember these correctly, you would not have been employed had you not 'agreed' to the training and as you say above if you 'left' within 3yrs it becomes 'due'.

 

now you are cutting new ground here, as none to date, nor any indications on the entire internet, has anyone ever tried court before, which, is the main reason i think CST are flying a kite here, although the claimant is ofcourse centrica... but i doubt they are even aware the claim has been made upon their behalf.

 

although its not typically recommended, why don't you do give their legal debt a call (NOT CST!!) , and findout what they know/want. i can't be certain in this, but in the back of my mind, i'm sure that someone did contact them directly and they simply wrote it off and didn't know dca's had even been actioned..

 

as the online MCOL court process require acknowledgement and a CPR 31:14 request needs sending to CST, in the normal course of the claim, you would have no direct contact from the claimant. i'd go ring them and have a 'chat'...you never know!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I've re-read the letter I received on 22nd June 2021 (letter dated 8th June 2021). It would appear this was their 'pre-action' letter and gave me 30 days to respond from the date of their letter, or they may proceed with legal action. Note how long the letter took to get to me. I took this to be another empty threat, like all the other letters, but it would appear I was wrong.

 

The letter refers to an overpayments of wages, but that is not the case. They are trying to reclaim the training 'penalty' which they could not take in full when I left (as my wages did not cover it).

 

The form they included gives me many options, from acknowledging the debt is mine and paying it in full, offering part payment, or disputing the whole amount. It also gives me the opportunity to ask for paperwork from them, e.g. a copy of any written contract. I am wondering if I should fill this in now.

 

Bottom line is, I do not have the money. I have significant credit card debt and can show this and that I cannot afford to pay them anything. I could probably find £1 per month, as per some of the info I've seen here.

 

I will answer any further questions to the best of my ability and would appreciate any advice on how best to proceed. Presumably, the court papers are the most important and I need to respond in a timely manner, but is it worth filling in CST Law's paperwork and requesting Centrica's contracts on the 'debt'? Or are we past that point now?

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so yes that was a PAPLOC then with a reply 'pack'.

 

you can request those docs within the CPR that goes to CST so no worries.

 

i'l post things later for AOS/CPR for you, 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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can you scan the 1st pages of the letter of claim up to PDF please

read our upload guide carefully .....one PDF ONLY.

 

dont need the reply form, but need to see what they say as they state in their POC they have already detailed full particulars, so i suspect its in the letter of claim

 

d

x

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You seem to be saying that in fact the money has been repaid. You need to doublecheck this and be sure.

 

If you apply in writing then refer to the date you received the letter even though it was dated XXX. So that it's clear on a paper trail that they are sending letters which are taking three weeks to get to you – in other words a big chunk of the 30 days.
I don't suppose you kept the envelope so that you have seen the postmark?

I suggest that you start doing that.

I believe that they have to give you 30 days and then if you respond they have a further 30 days and in fact it can be strung out for 90 days.
Maybe somebody can remind us of where that rule is. It's a fairly recent rule.

You been advised to speak directly with the company legal department. I suggest that after you have done this you then send the company – your employers – a subject access request. Don't mention it when you speak to your company legal department that afterwards send them the SAR and see what it might produce.

You say you've got no money – which is understandable. It eventually a claim is actually issued then you must let us know immediately and also you will have to file an acknowledgement of service within 14 days – as has already been pointed out by my site team colleague. Depending on what you discover, I would suggest that you then put in a defence that the money has been paid and that if it is hasn't been paid that you had every reason to believe it had been paid and that you are going to rely on and estoppel.

However, as it now seems that you haven't actually been issued a court claim at all, there is no hurry.

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Posted (edited)

I have attached the Letter of Claim

 

They continue to refer to it as an overpayment of wages. It is not.

 

I have the envelope, but there's no post mark, or date. Just a QR code and some sort of reference number. I hand wrote on the envelope the date I received it, as it shocked me how long it had taken to get to me.

 

So is my next step to call Centrica/BG and tell them what's happening and discuss a resolution? If I am, do I need to be careful with my words and not acknowledge any debt? Should I be asking for a copy of their contracts to show that I do/dont owe anything?

 

The money (£3000) wasn't taken in full, as my wage was not large enough to cover it. The final amount on the payslip was a minus amount! There was no supporting paperwork at the time, or afterwards, explaining anything to do with the training bond or monies owed. Until I started to receive DCA letters much later (start of thread).

LOC_08-07-2021.pdf

Edited by BadMojo
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well no details of how the debt is made there then, so their POC is trash and that needs pointing out later.

 

go ring centrica/BG, findout what is going on as it appears they are after the 2yrs figure of £6k and the £2781 is the outstanding having already had £3k as last wages grab back.

 

see what you can find out, but don't go ringing CST even if told too they will LIE.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sorry, I may not have been clear regarding the final wageslip as I've been concentrating on the training bond of £3000.

 

They attempted to deduct £3000 along with other deductions, like tax, NI, pension, but they also took £1000 which was a retention bonus paid at the start of the year (on the understanding that it would be recovered if you left within 12 months.

At the time, I had no intention of leaving, so accepted it.)

 

I wasn't actually paid enough that month to cover all these deductions, so my wage was displayed as a negative amount on my slip. -£2,797.08.

 

they've attempted to recover £4000, but were only able to get their hands on £1200.

 

 

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good in away then only after £3k then.

 

go have a chat i'm sure it will clarify things, see what they say.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Posted (edited)

I called Centrica People Services, which is said to handle calls from current and ex-employees. They gave me a number for Centrica Collections, but that number is 'not accepting calls right now'. I called People Services back and got an email address. The guy on the phone was able to look up my file and suggested, from the limited details he has access to, that it was for the training bond. For a better response I need to email collections so they can refer to payroll.

 

Shall I pen them a brief email asking to explain CST's impending court action and/or ask for copies of any documents they have in support of their claim?

Edited by BadMojo
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it is not CST's impending court action, centrica are the claimant

 

good lets see what transpires, we just need to be mindful not to miss AOS deadline

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sorry, shall I write the email? I'm mindful of putting something in writing that could jeopardise my position and of the potential delay in their responding.

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the claimant will have to prove with documentation that you owe the money.

you can't jeopardise your position at all, like admitting etc.

their POC is pants they cant just say we've already told him what he owes.

 

as i say i suspect centrica have no idea CST have actually raised a claim i bet but of course must have given permission for it to sometime 'happen' 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I received a reply from Centrica today. They're sending me a 

breakdown of the overpayment and a copy of my contract. 

 

They've also placed a hold on the case with CST Law until the information has been received, as this could take up to 10 working days

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They cant, keep to the court timeline regardless.

 

dont miss aos

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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OK. Will do. I'll need to come back and get some advice on that; which box to tick, section to fill in etc. 

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
...

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have responded to the AOS as advised above.

 

I have tweaked the document you listed and have a draft saved. What is the best/safest way for it to be reviewed here before I post it?

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most of the text is std 

if you mean the list of what docs you have requested copy and past that section here.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I've received a reply from Centrica. They've emailed me two documents. The first a break down of the 'debt'. The second a copy of my employment contract. 

 

The payroll document is basically a rewording of my last month's wage slip, highlighting income and deductions. I didn't receive enough pay to cover the reclamation of the £1000 retention bonus and £3000 training bond, so it left me with a minus amount, approx - £2800 owed, a debt in their words. 

 

The second document is a digital version of my employment contract, which it says I signed digitally in April 2015, a few months before I started working for them. There is no written signature. It shows a date, time and IP address. 

 

"To discuss repayment options please call 0333 202 9690 or send an email to:

[email protected]" .

Edited by BadMojo
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redact and upload to one multipage PDF please.

read our upload guide carefully

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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CPR letter. Pretty much word for word original document. Removed a few of the numbered points; left in one; added a second (very basic)

 

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

·         The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

·         Full particulars of the alleged overpayment of salary/expenses.

 

 

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read upload carefully use the sites listed there too.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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