@SwintonGroup - deny deny deny - Insurance Mistake - ***Won***

[Foxy100474]

unfortunately i have a iphone so an app is not an option, I have had to call them today as they are only open monday-friday 9am-5pm. All other calls i have made have been to there general customer service team. I will purchase a voice recorder over the weekend. 

[unclebulgaria67]

Thought about claiming through Swinton, rather than third party, Then you may at least get their claims department involved.  They may resolve this cover  issue due to reg mistype.

 

If you were not at fault, they will reclaim the amount paid and you recover excess separately.

[Foxy100474]

This is were my whole problem stands at the moment! It’s swinton im fighting with to accept they need to cover me from the change over of vehicles rather than them telling me I wasn’t insured due to the error!!

[Jamberson]

This situation seems needlessly complicated. I think all you need to do is approach your own insurer - nothing to do with the accident or claim. Tell them what happened with the reg number, and offer them a copy of your V5 confirming when you purchased the vehicle. Ask them to correct the policy details and confirm they are indemnifying you from inception, on the correct licence plate.

 

I can't see why any of that would be a problem or why they would refuse. If they do refuse, point out that you have had no insurable interest in the vehicle they did have on cover, and they shouldn't have been insuring it - then please tell us on what basis they are refusing. Personally, I don't think they will refuse.

 

Once that's done, you're home and dry - the other insurer can no longer use the argument that you were uninsured, and you can prove to them that wasn't the case.

[Foxy100474]

I’ve told them all this, all I get told is that it’s on my head because I inputted the information incorrectly and I should have checked my documents when they sent them!!

[BankFodder]

I think this whole thing is getting out of hand and you are losing control.

I don't see why there is so much concentration on chasing the insurer. The weak link here is the third party  who I understand has fully admitted liability and that you have that in writing.

I also understand that you have a quotation for the repairs and that this has been accepted.

I think it's about time for you to start taking control. There has been a confusion of issues here and the liability of the third party has somehow been completely integrated with the stupidity and unlawfully unfair behaviour of the insurer. You need to untangle them and deal with them separately – if necessary. That means that if you actually need to have a paper which says that you are insured on those particular days then you attack the insurer. However, that has very little to do with the liability of the third party and I think you should take the third party as an individual and directly.

I think your next step is to send a 14 day letter of claim to the third party. Tell them that if they will not settle the bill for repairs caused by their negligence within that time then on day 15 you will issue the papers. There's no point in having any further discussion it's going on too long. For some reason or other, the third party thinks that they can damage somebody else's vehicle and because of some technicality – even if that person is really an insured, that they can escape all liability. I suppose they think that they will be relieved from having to pay any excess. Of course what is amusing is that they will probably be along to this forum in a few months and complaining that their own insurer has increased their insurance premium because they became aware of an accident even though the claim was never processed or paid out.

I suppose that third party feels very comfortable and very protected because of the insurance problem and believes that that is the end of the matter and that by a sheer fluke they have escaped any financial burden.

Send them the letter before action. They will then start screaming at their insurer – and I dare say that you will suddenly get letters requiring that you communicate with the insurer. Ignore them. Communicate only the third party. You have no contractual or other relationship with her insurer. They might start screaming that you are an insured. Fine. They can raise that with the judge.

If you're happy to do this then we will help you draft a letter and we will also help you draft the claim. Only send the letter of claim if you are prepared to go ahead with your threat on day 15. Don't bluff. However I have to say here that the only way you're going to make headway with the insurer if you really want to go down that route is also to sue the insurer. If you don't have a taste for suing people then you had better give up now and resolve to be more careful about entering your details online in future.


If you want to deal with the insurer then that is a separate matter and we will be very pleased to help you there as well. What I'm concerned about is whether you have suffered any losses as a result of the delay which they have caused. Presumably you have been unable to put your car in to be repaired. Are there storage expenses which have been incurred which would have been avoided had the insurer behaved themselves? Please let us know. If you have incurred losses as a result of the insurers unlawful action then we will help you deal with it. On the other hand, if there action has simply produced an inconvenience but nobody is challenging you over an apparent couple of days lack of insurance, then it is probably best to let the matter go – although you shouldn't ever forget it.

So please let us know about losses caused by this delay. Please let us know whether you want to go ahead and to sue the third party.

[BankFodder]

[Jamberson]

17 hours ago, Foxy100474 said:

I’ve told them all this, all I get told is that it’s on my head because I inputted the information incorrectly and I should have checked my documents when they sent them!!

I assume the VRM they had on file was a legit registration number for some other vehicle out there, belonging to someone else. They have unwittingly insured that vehicle, which is illegal - you have no insurable interest in it, so you can't insure it. They cannot allow you (or force you) to have insurance on a vehicle you have no insurable interest in.

 

They have agreed to insure your vehicle, not the registration plate fixed to it. You can change your plate - it's still the same vehicle, and it's still insured. They need to update their records and confirm your vehicle is the one on cover from inception. Just because some telephone agent batted you back when you spoke to them doesn't change the situation. You need to press this home to them. If the next agent doesn't help, ask for their supervisor and explain again. If you get nowhere, ask to speak directly to the complaints team about your ongoing complaint, and explain again to them.

 

If you don't want to do this, fine, but if you do - and it's nothing to do with the claim, which you don't even need to mention - then you're sorted. Up to you, but that's what I would be doing.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Jamberson

[Foxy100474]

Hello everyone,

                           ok so after i posted on here yesterday about my telephone conversation i emailed the complaints department, i got a email within minutes stating that they were about to close but somebody would contact me first thing on Monday regarding my claim, i have ordered a voice recorder that will be arriving tomorrow so all calls will now be recorded, i will go over everything during this call including the fact that there head of complaints hasn't even passed on my original complaint that i sent in last Sunday. If i don't get any positive response then i will look at sending the third party the letter before action letter.

Every piece of advice that im receiving is positive, i just cant understand why the insurance company is messing me around.

JAMBERSON

Ive just looked into the the other VRN on GOV.UK  

 

[BankFodder]

I would suggest that you send the letter of claim to the third party immediately. That will concentrate everybody's minds – and of course if your insurer comes up with the solution, then you don't need to go ahead with the claim. This is going on too long and if you send the letter of claim now then at least that will shave a few days off.

I'm a bit worried that you are saying that you will "look" at sending… the letter of claim. I would have thought that we had gotten past that point by now

[Jamberson]

Based on what they said, that the typo in the registration number was your fault, then I am assuming you set up your policy yourself on an aggregator site - Confused, Compare the Market, etc.

 

The first thing those sites do is ask you for a reg number, then return the vehicle details. You have to enter a valid reg number to proceed - so what's the story?

 

Did you use an aggregator, or did they type in details over a phone call from you?

 

If the latter - on what basis are they arguing the mistake was yours? Have they listened back to the call to hear you read it out wrongly?

 

If you did use an aggregator, which one was it?

[Foxy100474]

it was an existing policy that i made changes to on the Swinton web site, i remember it didn't bring the details up and gave me the option to input the car details myself which i did. 

 

I am more than prepared to send a letter before action, is there a template that i could use?

 

[BankFodder]

Quote

Dear XXX

 

Letter Of Claim

As you know, you drove into the rear of my vehicle registration XXX on XXX date. You admitted that you were at fault and in fact you have confirmed this in writing in your email/letter of XXX date.

Furthermore, I have had an estimate for repairs of £7000 and which has been approved by your insurer.

I'm writing to let you know that unless I receive full settlement for the cost of repairs within 14 days that I will start an action against you in the County Court to recover this sum plus county court costs and without any further notice to you.

I fully expect judgement to be given in my favour and you should know that I will immediately transfer the case up for enforcement by High Court Enforcement Officers.

I suggest that you inform your insurers of this letter and pass a copy to them. However, I'm not prepared to accept any delays.

Yours sincerely

 

 

Have you suffered any additional losses? If you have then please would you let us know what they are – attributable to the delay caused by your own insurer and attributable directly to the negligent driving of the third party.

Once again, I do hope that this matter can be settled by the insurer being sensible – but so far there is no indication of that – and so you need absolutely to be prepared to issue the claim on day 15 if you do not get the settlement that you are demanding.

If there is any doubt about this then don't send the letter. Don't bluff.

Assuming that you have to issue the claim, you will incur the claim fee which for this amount is probably about £150 or so and also an allocation fee which may be £150 or £200 – if they decide to push you to a hearing. You can check the exact figures on County Court website. If you lose the case then your losses will be limited to these costs plus possibly the reasonable cost of travel of any representative who attend the hearing. If you win the case then you will get all of these costs back plus your reasonable costs of travel.

One thing I have forgotten to ask is whether the third party lives close to you because if there is a hearing, the case will be transferred to their local court. This is something else that you need to take into consideration – but frankly the way things are going I'm starting to believe that you won't have any other choice.

 

[Foxy100474]

Hi yes they live within 10miles of my home address. Luckily my car is still drivable so I haven’t incurred any financial costs other than the purchase of the voice recorder, it’s just the stress and lack of sleep. 

[BankFodder]

I think you should send an SAR to your insurer. Do it immediately. I'm interested in knowing how come the third party knows about your insurance position. Sounds like a data breach to me

[Foxy100474]

Could it have been from the motor insurance database?

 

[Mwynci]

12 hours ago, BankFodder said:

2 minutes ago, Foxy100474 said:

Could it have been from the motor insurance database?

 

 

Yes. Motor claims are not very complex and neither are their processes, it’s just the human interaction that fails. It will resolve, I think bank fodders approach is right here (not the SAR, bit in my opinion that just gives licence to be slow), it’s time to get grumpy and legal. 

[BankFodder]

I think that the SAR can be sent without delaying anything,  I would still suggest that LBA and then the claim if the LBA didn't produce the required result.  The SAR disclosure may come in useful but there is no need to depend on it.  The case seems to be cut and dried anyway - based on the 3rd prty admission

[Foxy100474]

The LBA will be sent on Monday. I have already drafted the letter ready to send. 

[BankFodder]

I suggest that before you send it, you check out the cost of the claim fee – and also the hearing/allocation fee and make sure that you are happy with these risks and that you will be prepared to issue the claim on day 15.

If you are then spend the time looking around this site for information on bringing a small claim in the County Court and also register on the money claim website and start preparing your claim. You can save your work. Post a draft of the particulars you are going to use here so that we can check it over before you click it off on day 15.

It seems to me that it is going to be a very simple statement of claim. Not much to say.

[BankFodder]

My post dated seventh of January referring to the insurance act 2015 is wrong. Sorry.

The relevant legislation is contained in Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations) Act 2012  

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/6/contents/enacted

 

 

Although the effect is exactly the same. The consumer insurance act 2012 Act has basically incorporated in far greater detail and in a more understandable form the provisions which had previously been made by the FCA in ICOBS.

This legislation is to be welcomed. I'm embarrassed that I hadn't appreciated it before.

It makes it very clear that where a consumer has presented facts carelessly – meaning not deliberately or recklessly – and if those facts do not materially affect the risk in that they would not have affected the insurer's decision to provide insurance, then they have no operative effect.
If there is no outstanding claim then the insurer is entitled to terminate the insurance contract on the basis of the error – but not to the prejudice of the consumer.

This is a hugely important piece of legislation and I would say that it is completely unacceptable for insurers first of all, not to be aware of this legislation and secondly, to ignore it as seems to be the case here.

I think you have an overwhelming case against the insurer for causing these problems.
 

 

[Foxy100474]

I would just like to thank everybody on here for all of their help, finally this morning I received my letter of indemnity, Swinton are now looking into why on the 3rd Jan I was given the wrong information. Thank you all again. 

[Manxman in exile]

Congratulations.

[BankFodder]

Yes. Well done. I'm afraid I wouldn't leave it there. They've caused you extreme amount of distress and difficulty and I would be putting in a claim for compensation.

I would have thought getting a gesture of goodwill out them will be child's play – and pushing the figure up won't be extremely difficult.

I would propose that you get them to focus by beginning an ombudsman claim on the basis of their admission. I believe that for them, every ombudsman claim which is made against them – they have to pay £400 to the ombudsman service. Somebody can correct me on this.

[BankFodder]

… and I have just noticed that we have received a very generous donation from you. Thank you.