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Dazza75

Won FOS Complaint but Barclays not complying

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Wonder if I can get some advice please.

 

Started a charge back via Barclays (Amazon) in March. They asked for additional info which I provided.

 

Additional info/proof not attached to my file, but proved Id sent it via 1st Class recorded.

 

Barclays debited my account by over £700 due to the failed CB - Raised a complaint with them, offered £75, then £150 compensation, but I pay the debit amount of over £700.

 

I declined, as my charge back failed due to them not attaching my evidence to the case. Charge back was a clear case of sent back, with tracking via parcelforce so all easily proved.

 

Complained to FOS. Its taken a few months but just over 4 weeks ago FOS sided with me.

Barclays agreed that they acted unfairly and made critical errors with the charge back. They were given 28 days to make good.

They had to amend my credit file, I was advised this would take a couple of weeks, and Barclays would write to me to advise its completion.

Pay me £150 compensation for the hassle they have caused and return my £70 that was in the account previously, they would also cover the charge back amount as they admitted it was their error that caused the CB to fail.

 

During these passing months, Barclays closed my bank account, leaving me with no bank account at all.

The marked my account in Default with Experian

, I have been unable to open any other bank account because of this default (Ive tried 2) Natwest gave me an account, then withdrew the service 2 weeks later. Went to Co-op for a basic cash minder account, they refused me completely. 

 

The 28 day period to carry out all of the making good has now passed. FOS said they have to give them that amount of time.

 

As this has now passed, can I reject their offer and take it further?

They have caused me so much hassle,

they have admitted all issues were their fault, and now they are not doing what they said they would to make things right

. Its been a nightmare not having a bank account, and my credit file is still ruined and I've just had enough of being treated so badly by them, when it wasn't my fault in the first place.

 

Cheers for any advice.

 

28 days have passed. The default is still on my Experian credit file.

 

 

 

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If you have been refused for an account - Consider using Monzo / Starling as they are good in these situations. 

Check CIFAS - Get a bank account you can use and then lets make your next moves. 

If they have fully messed this up then you could be in line for a big victory. Im happy to help but need you to reach out to CIFAS and DSAR the bank. 


 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Thanks for the replies. On Equifax (not experian sorry) it says there is no Cifas, which surprises me as The Co-operative bank will only reject a cash minder account if you are bankrupt or have a cifas marker against you, and I am not bankrupt and never have been. So the only other reason is a Cifas marker, but it does say there isn't one on the Equifax credit file info.

 

I can SAR the bank. Is it still worth a SAR to Cifas?

 

When I refused the compensation of £150 in either March or April, the guy I spoke to on the phone said I need to pay the amount they debited for the CB, of over £700, I told him I would not be paying it and would be making a complain to FOS and he said that is my choice. I then received a letter telling me my account would be closed as it was in debit and they did close it. They said it would be passed onto the debt collection dept but no one ever contacted me again about the debt, not Barclays or any debt collection people.

 

A week or so later, a lady rang me to follow up on my complaint. I told her as far as I was concerned it was closed as Barclays told me this, but she said no, she is following it up. She asked me for info and a copy of the evidence I had originally sent it when they asked for it (this is the evidence they failed to attach to my case) I sent this to her. She rang again telling me I had not sent the items back to Amazon within 28 days, and therefor my CB would have failed. I then proved to her it was sent the day after it arrived via more tracking. She said she would look into it again and get back to me but she or Barclays never did.

 

FOS said they had seen a file from Barclays which said I had a very good case, but against Amazon. So they were saying I should take Amazon to the small claims court. But I had tried and tried with Amazon to get a refund and they told me they would refund, but never did.

 

It got quite complicated after a while.

 

So, FOS have said they cannot make Barclays give me my account back, and feel £150 compensation is a good deal.

 

Have the FOS let them off lightly? Do I contact the case worker again to chase them, or just take it further myself? I feel they have gotten away pretty lightly considering they have screwed my credit file and done nothing to makes things better even though they agreed to do so. It isn't money I am concerned with here, its just the fact that they have really treated me badly, and gotten away with it, I never did anything wrong.

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Just a quick update here.

 

Have sent a sar request to the bank and Cifas, will take a while for a reply, but once I have the info I will go through it thoroughly and come back for further advice.

 

Still nothing from Barclays regarding compensation, my own funds in the account which they have kept, or clearing the default on my credit file, so will leave it and await the SAR info.

 

Thanks again.

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Have received the data from Barclays Bank today. A few pages are blacked out so cannot see whats on some of it but going through it. Nothing jumping out at me at all. Is there something specific I should look for regarding Cifas?

 

One thing I have noticed, there is a section that says the following and is dated 30th May 2019 which is when they closed the account.

 

Group Segment Code B30 Closed by bank. DO NOT RE-OPEN

 

Segment code B32 Contact National Fraud Team. See notepad.

 

No other info there though regarding this.

 

Still waiting for the report from Cifas which I guess is going to give me the information I need.

 

Just checked my credit file with Equifax and still in default, so what they agreed to do due to the FOS decision, they have still ignored, I can't understand this as they agreed to do it and then contact me to let me know it had been done.

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Have you done anything about enforcing the FOS decision in the County Court? That should have been started by now.

Also it seems to me that they may have now breached their duties under the data protection act in terms of the disclosure.

Please follow the SAR link where we give you some advice about how to deal with your data disclosure in order to discover what's there and what's not there. What is not there can be just as important – or even more important than what is there.

Have you contacted the credit reference agency about this?


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I haven't taken any county court action as yet because I wanted to wait for the reports from the bank and Cifas, just in case that would be needed to prove anything, but also, as I haven't had any correspondence at all from the bank I'm not sure what I could have done. The case manager at the FOS has told me Barclays agreed with his solution and said they will do what was asked of them, but that email is all I have. There has been no official letter detailing what they will do, just that email from the FOS.

 

The FOS sent them a letter which was copied to me via email, they listed their ways of resolving this dispute and gave them a time frame to reply. Barclays didn't reply in this time frame, so I chased the FOS, who then chased Barclays, and he emailed me to say they had agreed with his findings and they will be carried out within 28 days. 28 days took us to the 29th December 2019 and involved amending my credit record. Paying off the debt circa £778, paying me £150 compensation, and returning my own money which was in the account at the time of closure. But as I say, the only evidence I have of this happening was the email from the FOS.

 

4 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Also it seems to me that they may have now breached their duties under the data protection act in terms of the disclosure.

Is this because there are a few blacked out areas on the report? Also, when you say follow the SAR link, what do I need to be looking at? I've clicked the SAR link but am not seeing what I need to look for I'm sorry.

 

4 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Have you contacted the credit reference agency about this?

 

Not yet, as I mentioned, I have nothing in writing from Barclays to confirm they will do this, the FOS have confirmed via email that Barclays will amend my credit record, and then send me a letter to confirm its done, but it hasn't been done and I have had no letter from anyone.

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Thanks for this. The FOS are pretty incompetent even on the good days and this seems to be one of their bad days.

I think you should email the FOS immediately and tell them that you want a proper written confirmation of their decision sent to you by post. Explain to them that so far you have had no official confirmation and so far also Barclays has refused to comply.
Tell them that this is causing you stress and loss and you consider that the FOS themselves are being dilatory. Tell them that you are intending to have the decision enforced in the County Court but you need proper written confirmation from the FOS before you can go ahead.

On the matter of your credit file I suggest that you contact the agencies and lodge a dispute against the entry. Challenge the entry – I believe that they are then obliged to refer to the body which case the marker there and query it.


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Hi.

 

Quick update.

I have contacted the FOS and asked for written confirmation of the decision made so that I can take court action.

 

I have had my Cifas report today.

 

It states.

Barclays Bank registered a 1st party fraud report against me on the 30th May 2019.

This is the date they closed my account.

 

Case Type: Misuse of facility.

Reasons: Multiple encashment fraud.

Cifas Filing:

First party fraud

- (Opening an account or other facility for a fraudulent purpose or the fraudulent misuse of an account or facility;

or taking out and insurance policy for a fraudulent purpose or the fraudulent misuse of an insurance policy and/or insurance policy documentation)

 

So, they told the FOS early December that my credit file would be amended and any negative reports would be removed, but as of today the account is still in default with Equifax and I still have the Cifas registered against my name.

 

I've looked up Multiple Encashment Fraud.

When they put the chargeback amount back into my bank account, which they did the day I made the chargeback, I spent the cash over the next couple of weeks.

 

I did this because I assumed I would win the chargeback due to the fact that I did everything required to win it.

me spending that cash, according to them is Multiple Encashment Fraud.

 

They are saying I fraudulently made a chargeback so that they would put that amount back into my account so I could spend it, and rip the bank off.

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The adjudicator made the decision. He sent a letter to the bank saying he believes I am in the right. They should pay the debit amount. Give me the cash back that was left in my account and also pay me £150 compensation. Then clear any default notices with Equifax. 
 

The bank and I agreed with his findings and because of this it didn’t go to an ombudsman. He also said Barclays would write to me once all completed. As I said nothing has been done. 
 

I emailed the adjudicator today and he has emailed a copy of his letter that he sent to them detailing the above. Then I have the email from him where he states they agreed with his findings and they will do as he said. 

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Okay well the implications are that it is not an Ombudsman and therfore doesn't have the same legal clout that an Ombudsman's decision would. 

 

However you still can go for it. I would suggest taking it legal now as if you have the letter... 

 

However we wouldlike to see all the docs you have minus personal details... We can then help advise how to go about this 😊


 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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I didn't attempt to open one of those accounts because I wanted to wait and see if I had a cifas registered against me. I wasn't sure if it would affect my credit file further so thought it better to wait for the info from Cifas. I am able to use someone else's account at the minute so although its awkward, it was just easier for me.

 

Attached are the letter from the FOS to Barlcays advising of the suggested solution. In this letter it states I was paid £150 compensation, I wasn't and I did inform them of this.

 

CIFAS letter.

 

Emails between me and FOS confirming Barclays agree with the outcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

docs1.pdf

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One more thing to mention. Having received the bank info after the SAR to them, there is no mention of a cifas marker on the paperwork they sent to me, is it possible this is in the blacked out parts of the paperwork and are they able to cover that up in their own paperwork?

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Hi Dazza

 

Sorry I missed you on your last post. 

Banks typically wont do so as it can be akin to *Tipping Off* in some cases. 

 

Next steps in this case will be refer to an Ombudsman if you still can because Barclays are not complying. Lets take this slowly. 

Are you now with Monzo? Its a full fledged bank covered by the FCA / FSCS so youll be protected. 

 

Once you have it locked in with the Ombudsman and a formal decision is made. It becomes legally binding. 

Lets see how you get on :) I am always around and get email notifications - But not always able to respond straight away. 

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We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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I have just recently had another case come up for another poster. 

But Ill post here too... 

 

Note Principal 4 On CIFAS 

 

Principle 4: Lawfulness (Standard of Proof)

Cases filed to the National Fraud Database must be supported by evidence and meet the ‘four pillars’ of the Standard of Proof. The Standard of Proof is:

  1. That there are reasonable grounds to believe that a Fraud or Financial Crime has been committed or attempted;
  2. That the evidence must be clear, relevant and rigorous such that the member could confidently report the conduct of the Subject to the police;
  3. The conduct of the Subject must meet the criteria of one of the Case Types;
  4. In order to file the member must have rejected, withdrawn or terminated a Product on the basis of Fraud unless the member has an obligation to provide the Product or the Subject has already received the full benefit of the Product.

Consider a direct complaint to CIFAS too :) You can challenege an entry with them. And you have enough evidence to prove it. 

IMHO I dont think Barclays have enough proof for this case to register CIFAS Cat x Markers against you. 

Based upon whats been provided - You havent acted unlawfully and they have been very overzealous. 


 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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On 08/02/2020 at 17:55, fkofilee said:

IMHO I dont think Barclays have enough proof for this case to register CIFAS Cat x Markers against you. 

Based upon whats been provided - You havent acted unlawfully and they have been very overzealous. 

 

Before they placed the CIFAS which was done on the day they closed my account, 30th May, they admitted that I have a strong case, but against Amazon, the FOS have seen this as its on the paperwork barclays sent to them, So them admitting I have a strong case surely means they don't think I have committed fraud, and yet they still placed the marker saying I intentionally used the account to commit fraud against the bank.

 

The adjudicator is ringing me this morning for a chat so I will see what happens with him.

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Have spoken to the adjudicator.

 

He said if it goes to an ombudsman I am open to the bank changing their minds about accepting responsibility and they may decide to change their minds and dispute liability.

 

I then mentioned the fact that they have not actioned any of his decision, which they did agree to in November, ie cover the debit amount, amend my credit file and pay £150 compensation. He didn't know they hadn't done this (even though I did tell him last week in my email to him, he obviously took no notice)

 

He said he will speak to Barclays today and get back to me later by phone. He said he will ask why they have not followed through with what they agreed to do in November, and will also ask about the CIFAS to see if they will remove it.

 

He seems to think that if they say they will sort this out today, then everything is all good, but really it isn't. An unfair Cifas for 9 months that has affected my credit file quite badly, and agreeing to put things right, but 3 months later they still haven't. It seems very unfair that they can do all of this and get away with it.

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If this matter can be resolved by a direct approach from the ombudsman's office – then at least things are clear for you.

I completely agree with you about the unfair treatment you appear to have received at the hands of the bank and if they sort the matter out as a result of a direct ombudsman's approach then this will point even more to their lack of organisation and their unfair treatment of you.

Once the matter is resolved – then we will help you take up the issue of unfairness.

There is a possibility that the bank will respond that somehow or other they agree that they should have sorted it out earlier but they failed to do so and they will now sorted out and offer you some paltry sum in compensation. I would suggest that you agree that they should sort the matter out – but refuse any compensation and say that you will be looking at that separately. If you agree to accept some gesture of goodwill from the bank then effectively that will amount to a full and final settlement and you should not go down that direction. We will try to help you get something far more satisfactory.

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The £150 compensation offered in November was accepted on the basis that they would immediately resolve all of the issues caused by them. At that time I had no idea they had placed the CIFAS marker against my name. So if there is some sort of offer of compensation then I should refuse it and tell the ombudsman's office that I will take that up separately? To be honest I don't think there will be any offer of compensation for the CIFAS at all, the adjudicator I have been dealing with is a nice guy but he seems to want to deal with everything politely and be kind to Barclays and I am past that point now.

 

I had to explain to him twice that they hadn't done any of the things they promised to do in November, and he still didn't understand. He thought they had done as promised and I was just asking for the complaint to be looked at by an ombudsman due to the CIFAS being issued. I think by the end of the call he understood and said he believes the CIFAS was entered against me in error, but that doesn't help me and it doesn't answer why they agreed with his findings in November, and then did nothing.

 

Barclays had admitted to the adjudicator that they believed I had a strong case, but against Amazon. They came to this decision themselves before 30th May 2019, but still issued the CIFAS on 30th May 2019. So they agreed I had not committed fraud, by admitting I had a strong case, and then still issued the CIFAS saying I had committed first party fraud.

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It really is crazy. No one seems to know what they did, why they did it, and why they didn't resolve it.

 

The adjudicator doesn't seem that bothered that they issued a cifas. Before I knew of the cifas, I suspected they had placed one and told the adjudicator about it and he said, if there is a cifas, it wouldn't be Barclays that issued it as this isn't a situation where cifas applies.

 

He seems to think he can call Barclays today, tell them to sort it out, and then all is well and good, but I then have to wait to see if they do sort it out, then wait longer to see if the default comes off my credit file, and then await a letter from them to confirm what has been done and if the cifas has been removed.

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Have just spoken to the adjudicator.

 

Firstly, Barclays say they did not action any of his recommendations as they thought there was still an outstanding balance on the account. There absolutely is no outstanding balance. I did infact have a positive balance in there before they reversed the chargeback and put the account into debit. So there is an outstanding balance at the minute of £739, but that is because they reversed the chargeback. The recommendation from the FOS was that they accept responsibility for that amount, which they agreed to do, but haven't.

 

He said they only actioned some of his recommendations and not all due to them thinking I still owed them money other than the reversed chargeback. I told him they actioned zero of his recommendations.

 

He mentioned the CIFAS, and said he isn't sure as yet if that was placed by them due to this issue. I told him it was registered the day they closed my account. I haven't had any bank issues before this and have certainly not tried to defraud them at any point, so he said he cannot discuss that until he knows the reason for it.

 

He said they had already paid me the £150 compensation, which was agreed in November. They have never done this. He said they had taken it off the debit balance that I owed them. I said no they haven't.

 

He seems to have no clue what he is talking about at all, and the person at Barclays he spoke to also have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Its an absolute farce.

 

He said he is now waiting for an email from them, explaining why they haven't done anything and also why they placed the CIFAS, and he will let me know when he receives this.

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I am going to email him this evening, he has no idea what he is talking about so I am going to bullet point everything that has happened so far, and everything that has not happened. He seems to be taking the word of Barclays over me, and believing what they say, and what they are saying is wrong. They do not even know what they are talking about from what he has spoken about today.

 

3 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Also being a bit in arrears – which is what they seem to be saying – doesn't seem to me to be any basis for putting a CIFAS marker on your account and I think that you should point this out in writing and ask in what way is it considered to be justified.

 

That is what he said. He said, Barclays told him that even after resolving the debit amount of around £738, my account is still in areas and that's why they haven't made any refund, and possibly (I am unsure) why the Cifas was registered. As I said, there is 100% absolutely no arrears, other than the charge back amount, which they said they are responsible for. If they cleared the charge back amount, which they promised to do, the account would have been in credit by the £150 compensation they said they had paid into the account (They didn't do this, I did a SAR with the bank and have all of the bank statements here) and the money in the account that belonged to me which was between £40 - £70.

 

I can't even get my head around what he and they are saying, and I am usually on the ball, but I cannot understand what is going on at the minute.

 

The adjudicator advised against me asking an Ombudsman to look at it as he said the bank might now refuse to accept responsibility for the charge back mistake, even though they had already accepted it was their error. But, he said this and I'm not confident at all that he even knows whats going on.

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I have just sent an email to the adjudicator that has dealt with this case. Just so I have some sort of paper trail, as suggested, and so we both know what is actually going on, because today it seems he has no idea what is going on. I also sent him a screenshot of the Barclays account on the Equifax site so he can see it is still delinquent.

 

Quote

 

Hi XXXXXXX.

 
There was some confusion today with regards to what Barclays have and haven't done and it's getting quite confusing so I want to clarify a few things.
 
On the 29th November, you emailed to let me know that Barclays have agreed with your solution and they would do the following.
 
  1. Accept responsibility for the failed charge back and clear the amount they said I owed them, which was the charge back amount of £778.00
  2. Pay £150 in compensation
  3. Make amendments to my credit file to reflect the fact that the debt amount had been cleared and the account is no longer delinquent
  4. Return the money I had in the bank account before any of this happened, which was £49.17 
You said on the phone that they had failed to complete some of these actions. 
 
They have completed none of these actions, they have done nothing of what you suggested, and what they agreed to do. None of the above has been done.
 
I have checked my Equifax credit file today, and I have attached a section of it which is the Barclays bank account. As you will see, they placed a delinquent notice on the account on the 30th May 2019. This is still there as of today. The delinquent account is in debit by £739. This is the charge back amount of £788, minus my own funds off £49.17, that I had in the account before they re-debited the charge back amount. So the charge back amount, minus my own funds leaves a debit balance of £739, this is as it is today.
 
You said in November, and again today, that they have already paid the £150 compensation. They have not. They did not pay that amount to me, and they have not taken it off the debt balance. They have not paid that £150 to me or the account.
 
They also have not returned my own money, which is the £49.17 that was in the account.
 
The CIFAS notice. This was placed on the account on the 30th May 2019. this is the exact day they closed the account and registered the delinquent account with Equifax. It is a CIFAS for 1st Party Fraud. They are saying I deliberately created a false charge back to obtain money from them fraudulently. As you now know, that did not happen because they admitted they made errors with the charge back I registered with them, but it is still there.
 
You made your decision at the end of November 2019, It is now 3 months later. They have done nothing. If they thought there was still an amount owing to them, which there is not, they should have either contacted you to let you know, or contacted me. They have done neither. So for the past 3 months I have had a delinquent account with Equifax for no reason, other than laziness on behalf of Barclays Bank.
 
I have also now had a CIFAS notice against my name for 9 months, for no reason whatsoever. This is an abuse of the CIFAS code of practice and extremely unfair on me. I have had no access to a bank account or a debit card for 9 months. Do you have any idea how difficult life is with none of these things, and none of this is my fault. It's the fault of Barclays Bank and its incompetent staff and for some reason they are still getting away with it and I really cannot understand how this is.
 
I hope this had made things clearer for you because whatever Barclays Bank are saying to you, it isn't correct. It sounds to me as if they really have no idea what they are talking about.
 
Best wishes.
 
XXXXXX.

 

 

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Thanks for this fkofilee. I am happy to take legal action.

 

When it comes to the recovering of money, am I asking for the £150 compensation and the £49.17 I had in the account?

Should they be compensating for the unfair CIFAS, and the fact that it has been 3 months since they agreed to sort all of this out?

 

When the FOS said they were happy with the £150 compensation amount, none of us knew of the CIFAS and that is quite a big issue, plus the damage that has been caused by it upto November 2019, and the further damage caused in the past 3 months when all of it should have been removed?

 

Barclays sent paperwork to the FOS that stated I did have a strong case, but against Amazon, and this decision was made pre May 2019, so they are saying there was a case for a refund, yet issued that CIFAS at the end of May 2019 saying I had committed 1st Party Fraud.

 

they were saying I had a strong case which would mean they didn't suspect me of fraud, and then issued a CIFAS against me saying I have committed fraud.

 

That doesn't make sense does it.

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It really is confusing isn't it.

 

Barclays Bank admitted I had a valid refund claim, but not against them in May 2019.

 

Pre 30th May 2019 Barclays Bank admit I have a valid refund claim, but they felt it was against Amazon, and not them.

 

30th May 2019 Barclays Bank decide I have attempted to commit fraud against them by opening a charge back claim. They say I had no valid claim to initiate a charge back, and that I did it to fraudulently take money from them - So are saying the whole Amazon issue I reported to them was fake, and I did it because I knew Barclays Bank would immediately return that money into my account. This money was then used by me fraudulently, ie I spent it.

 

That is why they issued the CIFAS.

 

So on one hand they are saying I had a claim with Amazon, and on the other hand they are saying I made up the claim to defraud the bank.

 

They then later, admitted to the FOS that I did infact have a valid charge back claim with the bank which they failed to execute correctly and admit they made critical errors.

 

If you can understand this then well done, because I'm struggling and its me that's writing it.

 

 

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