A Shade Greener – ASG boilers – Everlasting Boilers – Maintenance and repair to boiler***Refund FOS***

[TMG111]

I foolishly signed up to a 10 year boiler purchase which included a separate monthly payment for the service, repair and maintenance of this boiler once installed.

This was supposed to include a yearly service and all repairs to the boiler which would give me complete peace of mind.

 

During the installation of the boiler the engineers also flushed my central heating system to ensure it would operate at the highest level and that nothing but routine servicing would be required.

 

Having had the first service carried a year after installation in the summer of 2017, everything seemed ok

then just after the second service a year later the boiler developed a fault where it would not generate hot water.

 

I called the company to make use of the repair service I was paying for only to be told that if the fault was due to dirt and debris in my central heating pipes then I would have to pay for this. They refused to send out an engineer to diagnose the problem until I agreed to this.

You can imagine my concern at this point but having kids in the house I couldn't be without hot water so I agreed.

 

I was handed a bill for over £180 and told that after just 2 years since my system was flushed, it must be really dirty.

I couldn't believe it could be that bad and couldn't  afford to pay nearly £500 to have the system flushed again.

 

Having discussed this with a couple of independent gas engineers they agreed that a system flush should be good for up to 10 years.

Prior too this I had a really old boiler which gave me no such issues.

 

A further year on and my boiler has developed a similar problem but the company now refuse to send out an engineer until I prove that I've had the system flushed again although they still take my monthly direct debit for repair and maintenance.

 

I have had to pay an independent Gas Safe engineer to repair the boiler and he said that my system was so filthy that he didn't believe it could have been flushed just 3 years ago. He also stated clearly that my system of just 8 radiators in a semi detached house should not need to be flushed but once every 10 years.

 

So where do I stand legally with this?

I'm left paying for something which the company refuse to honour as far as I'm concerned.

 

I offered to cancel the maintenance agreement and provide my own cover through British Gas but they refused saying that I would be in breach of contract.

 

Any help woulld be appreciated!

boiler-faq.2017.08 (1).pdf

[BankFodder]

So I understand that the suggestion is that the flush that they carried out at the time they installed a new boiler was not carried out correctly. The system should not have required flushing for up to 10 years – let's say seven years to be on the cautious side.

I understand that you were obliged to pay £180 because they found that the system was dirty.

You have now discovered in fact that the system is still extremely dirty. This opinion was given to you by an independent engineer.

It seems clear to me on the basis of what you say and what appears to be verified by independent experts that the flushing which apparently took place at the installation of the boiler in 2016 either did not take place or it was not properly carried out.

The consumer rights act requires that services are carried out with reasonable care and skill – and it appears that this has not happened in your case. On that basis I think that you would be entitled to claim for a proper flushing of the entire system and also the return of your £180.

If you can get the evidence of a couple of independent engineers in writing then we will help you begin your claim against this company and I expect that your chances of success will be better than 95%.

However, don't forget that even though you win your case, there is always the problem of enforcing the judgement afterwards and we will have to understand little bit more about this company A Shade Greener before advising you to commit to a legal action.

I suggest that you start getting your independent written reports and also start reading around this website in order to understand how to bring a small claim in the County Court. It's not difficult and because of the rather low value that you would be claiming, the cost would be quite small. In the event that you want you would get your costs back. In the event that you couldn't enforce then you would forfeit the costs but it wouldn't be an awful lot.

[TMG111]

Thank you for your swift reply. I am going to have to have the system flushed again very soon as it's obvious where the problem lies. I have successfully used MCOL recently on a different matter. I will look to get independent statements prepared as you suggest.

[BankFodder]

Get as many photographs as you can of the flushing procedure – and especially the quality of the water that is taken out of the system. Keep a good paper trail.

I suggest that you write to A Shade Greener is a matter of course and warn them of the action you are taking and how much it will be costing you. You can give them an opportunity to comment on the quote – so that later on they won't be able to say that you have gone on a spending spree without letting them know.

A tight paper trail is very important – and keeping the other side informed at all times is a very good tactic.

I've looked at their Google reviews and I have to say that it is not very encouraging

 

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNT8d6XiGrOVaOItCysZP2bXQ3jRLA%3A1577450899427&ei=k_0FXtPcGdK_gQaHxZrwCQ&q=A+Shade+Greener&oq=how+many+grams+in+a+cup&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i71l8.0.0..6923666...0.4..0.0.0.......0......gws-wiz.SCFlpg512-E&ved=0ahUKEwiT8orE7tXmAhXSX8AKHYeiBp4Q4dUDCAs&uact=5#lrd=0x48797bc7e9dd796f:0x4f44c29fd3578522,1,,,

 

Have they got any reviews on trust pilot?

If I were you I would start going around the Internet putting up reviews as well.

[BankFodder]

Also you should realise that guarantees which are given by companies are only good for as long as the company is in existence.

We have had people complaining about companies – building companies are the worst (which includes plumbing installations) which give 10 year guarantees or even lifetime guarantees. When the company goes belly up – so does the guarantee.

We have also had one or two companies which have apparently offered "insurance backed guarantees". We haven't come across a single person who has thought to ask to see the certificate of insurance and then contact the insurer to see whether the insurance is really in place and whether it would cover them in respect of the work they are considering having carried out. When people see "insurance backed guarantee" they tend to take the company of their word. Big Fail!

[BankFodder]

I had better say now that if you can't find the address of this company in order to serve any proceedings on them, then you may as well give up now. If it is the case that they are untraceable – then it would be pointless spending lots of money on independent reports et cetera. You might be better off simply chalking it up to experience and sorting out your system.

I also don't really know why you have gotten into a repair contract on installation which is almost new and in respect of which you enjoy statutory consumer protection for quite a few years. I think you are being turned over.

I would seriously consider stopping your direct debit. What you are buying here is the equivalent of an extended warranty. In other words you are being sold duplicate rights. If you can't enforce your statutory rights then you have pretty well no hope of enforcing the guarantee.

I would start posting on any review sites and asking generally if anybody happens to know where these people are. However, even if you find out I can imagine that they will be very difficult to enforce judgement against. I really don't like the smell of this company at all given what we are discovering and given all the other reviews. They seem to be pretty shocking.

 

I see that ASG boilers says that they belong to the Gas Safe Register. You might want to see if you can contact the register and get details of ASG. Good luck
 

[BankFodder]

I just suddenly realised that you said in your opening post that you have signed up for a 10 year boiler purchase. Does this mean that you are still paying for it? If this is the case then suddenly you have some leverage

[TMG111]

Hi, yes I did sign up to a boiler purchase and the service/maintenance contract runs in parallel with the purchase contract. According to the company I can't have one without the other or I am in breach of contract. I have asked for a copy of this to be sent to me. I do have an address for the company too. 

To sum up then I think my problem is concerned with whether the system flush was carried out effectively at the time of installation and then to find out whether they have failed to keep to their own terms and conditions of the maintenance contract.

To date I have had to pay £180 in 2018 and then a further £199 last week to have the boiler repaired. A system flush is going to come in at around another £500. So when they say:

 

'With our “Boiler for Life” scheme you’ll never have to worry about your boiler again. All you have to do us pay us an affordable monthly sum and for that we’ll look after it entirely. To help with your cash flow our scheme starts at just £1.47 per day. There are no maintenance costs, call out 365 days a year, free service every year, free upgrade after 10 years and we’ll also replace the boiler entirely in the unlikely event that it cannot be repaired. Basically, we install it, you forget it. If you stay with us you’ll never have to buy another boiler again.' 

What is involved in the installation? We aim to start the installation process between 8am and 9am (traffic dependant) and require someone over the age of 18 to allow us access to the property. Over the course of the day we will: remove your old boiler, perform a free hot and cold flush of your existing heating system, install your new Grade ‘A’ Boiler, clean up after installation and take away.'

 

I would say that their claims are fantasy.

 

Thanks for all the help.

Edited December 27, 2019 by GRD3105
added extra entry

[BankFodder]

Please will you publish their address here.

What is the total cost of the boiler over 10 years. How much have you paid them so far and how much are you paying per month.

There's nothing unlawful against them insisting as part of the sales deal that you purchase a service contract – although it's a crazy deal for you and there must've been other alternatives.

It seems to me that you are paying an extraordinary amount of money to purchase this boiler over 10 years but as you are still paying for it, you may as well leverage it to get the flush done properly.

Please could you answer the questions I put to you about the money and the address

[TMG111]

Hi, I'm currently paying around £35 a month for the boiler which I've been paying for 3 years and 6 months. The service agreement costs around £9 per month and thew same payment duration applies. I took this out in 2016 when my circumstances were far different than they are now and my old boiler was condemned so I had to finance a new one and at the time, this was one of my only options.

 

Their address is:

A Shade Greener Boilers LLP
Sterling House
Maple Court
Maple Road
Tankersley
S75 3DP
 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Thank you. That address is just a registration address and there are unlikely to be any assets there.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/OC377912/officers

I'm just wondering what might happen if you attempted to terminate the contract. Are you in a position to have the boiler removed and replaced with a new one?

[BankFodder]

In fact it seems to me that if you included the saved costs of a flush as part of the expense of a new boiler, this might put you in a position of some advantage.

Of course if the flush was carried out then your existing boiler may well last for ages and maybe ASG boilers might do their job properly – but looking at the various reviews on trust pilot, Google, Facebook – it looks like a very unreliable company and looking at the companies house entries, there seems to have been a number of these companies which have been dissolved.

 

[TMG111]

I think they quoted me around £3100 to terminate the contract which I'd rather not pay on top of everything else that I've had to pay up until now. If I could successfully reclaim some or all of the costs already paid out for repairs and what I'll have to pay for a flush then it would put me in a much better situation to end the contract. 

I have done absolutely nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned and i'm already thinking I'm going to have to take some sort of hit to sort this situation out. What really got me angry was their point blank refusal to even inspect the boiler despite their claims that I can sit back and relax as they have me covered!

[BankFodder]

Don't worry about their £3100 to terminate the contract. It's an unenforceable penalty under the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act.

 

If they have breached the contract to the extent that the breach is fundamental and has effectively deprived you of the benefit of the contract then their breach has the effect of terminating the contract and it is then up to you to accept their repudiation.

You have two positions I think. You can either write to them and inform them that because of their failure to carry out a proper flush at the time of the installation, the central heating system is now no longer functioning and therefore this amounts to a fundamental breach of contract has you are deprived of the purpose of the contract. If they will not carry out a proper flush and repair within a certain number of days – say, 10, you will consider the contract at an end. You will cease all payments and you will have the boiler removed and replaced with another from a reputable seller and they can then make arrangements to collect their material from you within a reasonable time.  I think you will have to get the independent assessments of the state of your heating system and the fact that it needs proper flushing out and that had the work been done correctly it would not need doing again for 10 years.

Or else you can get the assessments done, a quotation for a proper flush and then write to ASG boilers and tell them that you will be having your system flushed out, here are the independent assessments, he is the proposed cost, you are giving them seven days to make their own representations failing which you will proceed to have the system flushed out and then the boy repaired.

You will then say to them that if they put you to the position where you have to do pay for the repairs yourself you will then consider that any repair or service contract with them is at an end and you will cease payments on that and you will restrict yourself merely to paying the purchase price of the boiler and that you will issue a claim against them to recover your outlay for repairs. After your time limit has expired, you then proceed to have the boiler repaired and you then proceed against ASG to recover your money.

Frankly the whole thing is a bit of a mess and very complicated. It seems to me that your best interests would be in getting shot of this company – given their very lousy reputation. It seems to me that you never know where you are going to be from one winter to another.

 

[TMG111]

Thanks for laying out my options - I agree it's a messy situation which I'd love to be rid of. I'll go about getting an independent assessment done of my system first as I think this will help to make things more clear as to which is my best path.

[BankFodder]

Please keep us updated.

While you get the independent assessment, get quotes for installing a new system – including a complete flush of the existing system. Then you will be able to compare like for like more easily

[TMG111]

thanks for the info above! I guess he's a bit of a jack of all trades judging by the number of companies that have come and gone. Just out of interest if the current one was to fold where would I stand as far as making payments etc is concerned?

[AndyOrch]

Any information you still require you will probably find it in the following thread.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/369086-everlasting-boilers-county-court-letterclaim-struck-out-now-a-3rd-claim/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-4840996

 

Andy

[BankFodder]

Here's a quick survey of the thread which maybe tells the story. It's quite amazing really that it went on so long – and we don't even know what the result is now.

Quote

 

November 2013 – boiler fitted incorrectly and job not complete. Customer refuses to pay.

 

September 2014 – ASG issues claim for £5000 (includes late payment charges and home visit charges)

 

September 2014 – customer files defence

 

November 2014 – ASG discontinues claim

 

February 2015 – customer receives letter telling them that High Court enforcement is underway

but apparently there has been no judgement in which case the letter is a bluff.

ASG threaten can to remove boiler

 

May 2016 – ASG issue new claim form

 

May 2016 – customer files defence

 

July 2016 – mediation proposed: ASG proposed a mediator that they would complete work. Customer declined on the basis of no confidence and said that they would want a full gas safe report as a prerequisite to any remedial work.

ASG refused.

Mediation abandoned

 

September 2016 – customer obtained safety report which showed defects in the installation and also the Buildings Regulations Compliance certificate should not have been issued.

 

September 2016 – ASG claim stayed by the court under courts own initiative

 

October 2016 – claim transferred to customers local court.

Letter received from ASG asking customer to get three quotations for remedial work

 

October 2016 – gas safety report which gave until 23^rd of the ninth 2016 to comply had still not been complied with

 

October 2016 – customer observes that it was only once gas safe became involved that ASG showed any interest in putting things right.

 

July 2017 – claim allocated to small claim track

ASG has undertaken no remedial work

 

July 2017 – ASG claim to have sent correspondence but Royal mail tracking numbers show that this correspondence was never delivered.

 

Summary of situation so far

 

also:

 

 

hearing date listed for 25 October

 

25^th of October – ASG claim struck out because they couldn’t produce a default notice on a conditional sale agreement. Judge told him that they would have to begin again if they wanted to proceed.

 

November 2017 – letter from ASG – arrears waived. Once to implement new direct debit. Reminds customer that the unit has not been serviced and it is a legal requirement of the contract to have it serviced and failure to do so may lead to legal action.

 

January 2019 – ASG issue default notice

 

January 2019 – ASG send letter chasing arrears

February 2018 – court claims sent to customer

March 2018 – defence filed

March 2018 allocation

April 2018 – case transferred to Grimsby – hearing eighth of May

8 May 2018 – judge allows the case to continue – gives ASG 14 days to amend POC

8 May 2018 – customer discovers that a charge had been placed on his property three months after the installation of the boiler

11 May 2018 – new POC received from ASG

 

17 May 2018 – rereading terms and conditions confirms that they are entitled to secure on the property

29 May 2018 – very useful suggestion from Sgt Bush

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Is your contract a conditional sale agreement?  Has it been secured on your property?

[BankFodder]

I have split off a number of posts which are not directly relevant to your problem to another thread here:

 

 

[BankFodder]

Here is my summary of the conclusion of the other case we have assisted with against A Shade Greener

 

 

[BankFodder]

 

[Bunnyrabbit2509]

Yes the sale is a conditional sale and a land registry restriction is placed on the property.

[BankFodder]

15 minutes ago, Bunnyrabbit2509 said:

Yes the sale is a conditional sale and a land registry restriction is placed on the property.

 

Sorry, but please could you start your own thread. The owner of this thread hasn't been around since the middle of January and it's a shame that they haven't given an update so that other people affected by this company can see it. However, I'm afraid that having somebody else posting answers simply confuses readers.

Thank you